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CDI Question

Discussion in 'XJ Modifications' started by Igor, Feb 6, 2011.

  1. Igor

    Igor Member

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    Can I use an XJ 550 CDI in a XJ 400 Special??
     
  2. Igor

    Igor Member

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    More information, the one that I have to replace is a TDI 14-33 and it
    looks just like the one in the XJ 550
     
  3. Igor

    Igor Member

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    Well?? can I or I just can´t
     
  4. Igor

    Igor Member

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    Nobody knows, I just can´t believe it
     
  5. markie

    markie Member

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    Hi Ignor. I believe your model is not common in the US and I have not seen any for sale in the UK either.

    Generally, you CAN swap the TCI ignitor boxes between models as they are very similar. It is hard to say if it will give perfect running but you can try it - maybe check your spark plug colour and listen carefully to any pinking/pinging/pre ignition with the new TCI.

    At least this will enable you to determine if your old unit has failed.

    Sorry but that is as much help as I can be!
     
  6. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Igor; post the entire number off the TCI unit you have; I'll look at my 550s when I get home.

    As Markie pointed out, the TCI unit from a 550 will probably run your bike; but it may have different characteristics to the advance curve.

    I wouldn't recommend leaving it in place, but to use as a test to confirm the functionality or failure of your unit, it will be fine.
     
  7. Igor

    Igor Member

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    The number is TDI 14-33
     
  8. Igor

    Igor Member

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    And thanks for your help
     
  9. Igor

    Igor Member

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    those are all the ID numbers that I have.
     
  10. wizard

    wizard Active Member

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    You must use the TCI specific for your model, anything else is just too risky.
     
  11. Igor

    Igor Member

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    I´m not sure that the one I have is the one that belong to the model, I only know that it is in the bike
     
  12. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Igor; For the 550 Secas, mine are all TID14-05. However, on the label in the lower left corner it also says 4U8-10. Since 4U8 is the model ID for the 550 Seca, I know these are correct for my bike.

    Does yours have a similar number in the lower left corner of the label? If so, and it matches the model ID for your bike, then you know it's correct.

    If it doesn't match then I'd still be researching it before making any changes. Why do you think you need to switch TCI units?

    Out of curiousity, what IS the model ID (first three digits of the "short" serial number, on top of the clutch housing) of your bike?
     
  13. Galamb

    Galamb Member

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    bigfitz52
    I went out and looked at my 650 Maxim. The CDI is red in color with 5G2 on it. Don't know if color is a factor, but my Model ID is 5N9.
    I have a spare CDI with 4H7-10 supposed to be for a 650 Maxim it is all black. Now I'm more confused. :(
     
  14. chacal

    chacal Moderator Moderator Supporting Vendor Premium Member

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    TCI Units:

    NOTE: the difference between 4-pin and 5-pin units (besides timing curves), is the extra pin which is used to disable the ignition based on the side-stand safety circuit. A 5-pin TCI should run on a 4-pin harness (but not vice-versa). The TCI defeat is actuated by pulling the extra pin to ground.



    HCP12647
    OEM TCI Ignitor Unit
    oem part # unknown
    small red label lettered:
    TYPE TID12-07
    10R-10 (date code)

    Advance curve: unknown

    Application:
    1982 XS400




    HCP412
    OEM TCI Ignitor Unit
    oem part # 4U8-82305-10-00
    small blue label lettered:
    TID14-05
    4U8-10 (date code)
    uses non-latching connectors
    4 + 5 terminals

    Advance curve:
    5* at 1,250 rpms
    7* at 1850 rpm +/- 200 rpms
    36* at 3300 +/- 250 rpms
    38* +/- 2* at 4000+ rpms

    Application:
    XJ550 all models




    HCP413
    OEM TCI Ignitor Unit
    oem part # 4H7-82305-10-00
    small black label lettered:
    TYPE TID14-02
    4H7-10 (date code)
    4 + 4 terminals (no side-stand safety switch)
    uses non-latching connectors

    Advance curve:
    10* at 1050 rpms
    12* at 1800 +/- 200 rpms
    35.5* at 4100 +/- 400 rpms
    37.5* +/- 2* at 5000 rpms

    Application:
    1980-81 XJ650 Maxim and Midnight Maxim





    HCP7572
    OEM TCI Ignitor Unit
    oem part # 5V2-82305-10-00
    small green label lettered:
    TYPE TID14-08
    5V2-10 (date code)
    4 + 5 terminals
    uses non-latching connectors

    Advance curve:
    7* +/- 1* at 1050 rpm
    9* at 1600 +/- 200 rpms
    35.5* at 3300 +/- 300 rpms
    37.5* +/- 2* at 4000+ rpms

    Application:
    XJ650RJ and RJC Seca
    (probably XJ650 Euro models, too)





    HCP414
    OEM TCI Ignitor Unit
    oem part # 5G2-82305-10-00
    small red label lettered:
    TYPE TID14-06
    5G2-10 (date code)
    4 + 5 terminals
    uses non-latching connectors

    Advance curve:

    7* at 1050 rpm
    12* at 1800 +/- 200 rpms
    35.5* at 4100 +/- 400 rpms
    37.5* +/- 2* at 5000+ rpms

    Applications:
    XJ650 Police (37G)
    1982-84 XJ650 Maxim
    1981-83 XJ750 all
    XJ750 Police (37H)





    HCP415
    OEM TCI Ignitor Unit
    oem part # 16G-82305-10-00
    large black label lettered:
    IGNITION UNIT
    TYPE TID14-13
    16G-10 (date code)
    Hitachi, Ltd. Tokyo Japan
    NOTE: different size and orientation case than all others TCI units, has two harnesses and each harness uses FM latching connectors

    Advance curve:
    5* at 1050 rpms
    25* at 2500 rpms (boost pressure 0mm or greater)

    at 0mm Hg:
    5* +/- 1* at 1050 rpms
    25* +/- 2* at 3000 rpms
    26* +/- 2* at 9000 rpms

    at -50mm Hg:
    10* at 1190 +/- 230 rpms
    30* +/- 2.5* at 200 rpms
    33* +/- 2.5* at 3000 rpms
    37.5* +/- 2* at 5000 rpms

    At 3000 rpms:
    30.5* at -50 to -20 mmHg
    27.5* at -30 to 0 mmHg

    Application:
    XJ650 Turbo





    HCP416
    OEM TCI Ignitor Unit
    oem part # 1FG-82305-10-00
    small purple label lettered:
    TID14-44
    1FG-10 (date code)
    Hitachi, Ltd. Tokyo Japan
    uses the latching HCP9335MMWHT 6-place and a latching 4-place connector shells.
    4 + 5 terminals

    Advance curve:

    7* at 1050 rpms
    ~18* at 2000 rpms
    ~27* at 3000 rpms
    ~33* at 4000 rpms
    37/5* at 5000+ rpms

    Application:
    1985-85 XJ700 non-X (air-cooled)




    HCP417
    OEM TCI Ignitor Unit
    oem part # 1AA-82305-10-00
    large yellow label lettered:
    IC IGNITOR
    TID14-35
    1AA-10 (date code)
    Hitachi, Ltd. Tokyo Japan
    uses the latching HCP9335MMWHT 6-place and a latching 4-place connector shell.
    4 + 5 terminals

    Advance curve:

    5* +/- 1* at 1100 rpms
    15* to 35* (??) at 2000 rpms
    40.5* to 45* at 3000 rpms
    40* to 45* to 4000 rpms
    39* to 44* at 5000 rpms
    36* to 41* at 8000 rpms

    Application:
    1985-86 XJ700-X (water-cooled)





    HCP14536
    OEM TCI Ignitor Unit
    oem part # 1FL-82305-10-00
    large white (white) label with green lettering lettered:
    IC IGNITOR
    TID14-47
    1FL-10 (date code)
    Hitachi, Ltd. Tokyo Japan
    uses the latching HCP9335MMWHT 6-place and a latching 4-place connector shell

    Advance curve:

    5* +/- 1* at 1100 rpms
    15* to 35* (??) at 2000 rpms
    40.5* to 45* at 3000 rpms
    40* to 45* to 4000 rpms
    39* to 44* at 5000 rpms
    36* to 41* at 8000 rpms

    Application:
    1985-86 XJ750-X (water cooled)




    HCP10489
    OEM TCI Ignitor Unit
    oem part # 29R-82305-10-00
    small red label lettered:
    TYPE TID14-21
    29R-10 (date code)

    Advance curve: unknown

    Application:
    750RL model 45T
    750 E-II




    HCP418
    OEM TCI Ignitor Unit
    oem part # 31A-82305-10-00
    small black label lettered:
    TYPE TID14-19
    31A-10 (date code)
    3 + 6 terminals

    Advance curve:
    5* +/- 1* at 1050 rpms
    7* at 1600 +/- 225 rpms
    30* at 2900 +/- 300 rpms
    33.5* +/- 2* at 3500 rpms
    38.5* +/- 2* at 6000 rpms
    39.5* +/- 2* at 6000 rpms
    40* at 5500 rpms
    36* at 9000 rpms

    Application:
    XJ900RK, RL





    HCP11857
    OEM TCI Ignitor Unit
    oem part # 58L-82305-10-00
    small yellow/golden label lettered:
    TYPE TID14-37
    58L-10 (date code)

    Advance curve: unknown

    Application:
    XJ900 N, FN, F





    HCP419
    OEM TCI Ignitor Unit
    oem part # 10M-82305-10-00
    small aqua label lettered:
    TYPE TID14-10
    10M-10 (date code)
    uses non-latching connectors

    Advance curve: unknown

    Application:
    XJ1100





    - TESTING AND REPAIR OF THE TCI BOX:

    There are three main problems that TCI units succumb to after years of reliable service:

    1) bad solder joints on some of the internal components (known as "cold solder joints") result in the component pieces coming loose from the circuit board, and thus they can no longer perform their function reliably (or at all).

    2) component failure......a blow-up transistor, a burned circuit trace, etc. This situation can develop if you have a short-circuit in your electrical system, or hook up your battery or jumper cables incorrectly, etc. TCI units do not like "big blue sparks" in the electrical system (except at the spark plugs, of course!).

    3) dirty external terminal connections.

    Bad solder joints can be repaired by someone who is skilled at that sort of diagnosis and repair, and even individual circuit components can be replaced, but it's tough to find someone in the modern world of "pitch-and-plug" skill-sets who actually has the skill and patience to do this type of work. Yamaha gave absolutely "zero" electrical specifications for checking the condition of the TCI units, besides the afore-mentioned "check everything else first" type of diagnosis.

    But you can perform a simple set of tests to determine whether your TCI unit is good or not, without having a second, known good unit to install in place of the suspect unit. Although these instructions were written for XS owners, the exact same thoughts apply to the TCI units on the XJ-series of bikes:

    http://home.ptd.net/~theragos/tci%20faq's.htm


    Remember that the Red wire with the white tracer stripe should always be hot with the key on. The TCI unit grounds the gray and orange wires from the ignition coils. The ignition coils fire when the TCI interrupts the ground.

    The tricky part is the TCI un-grounds the gray and orange if there is no signal from the pick up coils for a few seconds. This is to protect the coils from overheating if the key is on and the engine isn't running. So unless you check the Red/white wire to gray (or orange) really quickly, you might get false readings or a mis-diagnosis of the true nature of the problem.



    All of the XJ-series TCI units are of the "4RO" style as described in the above article.

    And if the above isn't enough, if you feel the need to get medieval with your TCI unit, well, then it doesn't get much better than this:

    http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/IgnitionFAQ.html


    User "Robert" on the xjbikes.com website is also rumored to wield a mean and merciless soldering iron over mis-behaving TCI boxes:

    http://xjbikes.com/Your_Account/profile=230.html
     
  15. Galamb

    Galamb Member

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    Thanks Len for explaining the CDIs.

    By the looks of things, this will explain to everybody, if they want to buy one, make sure it is the right one.
     
  16. Igor

    Igor Member

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    Thanks to everyone for their help, but It was not the CDI , it was just a wire of the arnes making a bad contac, as a result of that my spark was so week that the bike wouldn´t run at all, anyway it took two days to en electric mechanic to find it.
    Again Thanks to all of you that post with helping advices.
     

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