XJ700 *EFI* The holy sh*t it is fast now mod!

Ive got a question about your fuel pump as well. the fuel rail that is on the gsxr setup doesnt have a return setup on it, and the pump i have puts out a straight 43 psi, is this an issue? how is your fuel system plumbed?

 

I use a 2009 Honda rincon fuel pump that has its own built in 43psi regulator and return system into the surge tank the pump is in.

 

hmmm ok, i think i may have figured out my system as well, its essentially the same setup without the surge tank.

 

did you change your timing table since you first posted it? could you post it again if you did?

 

The timing table is for a XJ700 it should be close to what you need for a xj750 with some tweaking.

 

its almost identical comparing the one you have with the one in my manual

 

Just a note: Make sure you separate the high current wires from the low current wires. What I suggest is put the grounds, injector, and ignition wires together then shield them. I also suggest shielding the 6 to 8" of low current wires also out of the microsquirt. This was causing all kinds of noise issues for me until I did this.

 

Also another update: Have everything running great now! Updated my timing table. I'm pretty sure I have the timing set spot on to factory. Also added some closer resolution to the lower load and upper load ranges. Since I am running speed density for load I did that to keep the map signal from jumping around in the upper 80kpa+ load ranges.

 

nice build!

 

Yay did some cosmetic work today.

 

Also what does everything of this fairing/windscreen? http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/3/ ... =Cart_Item

 

You won't like it UNLESS its Tall enough to deflect the Wind over the Top of your Helmet.

I have a SlipStreamer HellFire.
I had to lower my Seat 2-Inches to get Max Effect.

(Which made the Bike more comfortable to ride, ... I might add,)

 

Well I found this one also. I like it better. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 1926wt_941


Really interested in keeping flying objects from my neck. Also for those cool mornings in the winter here.

 

^^^ guy from new mexico complaining about the cold (LOL)

 

I'm 4500 ft above sea level.

 

ZING!!!

 

Just read (or at least skimmed) through the whole thread. Looks great. I have a few questions:

1. 10K RPM? Is that the stock red line on this engine? Did you implement a rev limiter at that point? Fuel cut? Timing retard?

2. Are you running pure MAP, or is there some Alpha-N involved?

3. How is the idle regulated over the warmup curve?

4. What did you do for CLT?

5. Did you happen to notice a spike in the VE map around 3200 RPM?

6. What configuration are you using for accel enrichement?

7. How is cold start?

Where in NM? I'm just in the next state over. Might be interesting to meet and compare notes.

Cheers,
Paul

 

Alright

1. 10k rpm is stock for the 700 so I have it at 10.5krpm with fuel and timing cut.

2. I am using the ITB mode that is in the new 3.1.1 code. It mixes the alpha N and SD into one table.

3. Idle is just regulated using cold timing advance.

4. CLT temp sensor is placed on the back of the the cylinder jug on cyl #3.

5. I have a spike right around 4000ish for me. Maybe YICs is causing this?

6. Accel enrich is EAE with 80% tps 20% MAP

7. Cold start works fine now. Takes a little throttle for like 5 seconds to keep it running. But after that it works fine.

8. I live down in Alamogordo, NM.

 

I just checked my map again, and the early spike is actually at 3700, not 3200. Sounds like it's likely the same thing you're seeing.

If that's YICS causing this, then I probably need to bring that ridge further down my map to make sure that I'm not going too lean under "cruise."

How do you do EAE with TPSdot and MAPdot blend? I thought EAE disabled standard accel enrichment.

Let me know if you plan on heading up sometime, or if you'd like to meet in Trinidad or something.

BTW, here's my current map. Hope it's readable enough crushed to 498 pixels wide. (This is pct baro, not absolute kPa. I'm also using a second ambient map sensor with a pretty significant altitude adjustment curve... much better than the out-of-the-box altitude adjustment MS2Extra ships with,)

 

I would really like to see what your timing/afr maps look like if you don't mind. Instead of doing pics you can just email me your msq to gennro2004 @ yahoo . com

 

Genro can u explain us how come u spent almost 1 grand to EFI ur Maxim u spent tons of time doing it but u still have a crappy seat and that cost like 200 or less to get it fix with brand new leather and foam???
lol

 

You're kidding right? The guys comes on and basically takes the time to answer every question and walk us through each step and you bust him on a seat? I personally have no interest in EFI but I sure respect good work.

jeff

 

I would sit on a nail for EFI

 

Absofrigginlutely amazing!!! Way more talented than I am. Wouldn't want to do a streight up trade for an 86 XJ700 by any chance?

 

They see you rollin' with EFI. They hatin'.

 

Who gives a rip about a F%#@in seat.....

This is one of the best EFI conversion threads posted I've seen yet....Independent Tuners are getting the Micro/EFI process sorted and applied/sharing the data with others that may be interested. Getting to be fairly common on Turbo/NA oilcooled GSXRs but the first time I've seen it in detail for an IR set up on a XJ...................THANKS!!!!!

I run Trons on any Hi output build but have a EFI take off in mind and systems/threads like this one help to sort the variables to no end.

 

calm down guys i was just teasing him. Of course this is a great piece of art and the article its so good that I am thinking even with my very low EFI skills on diving to this new ocean of no carbs. I love EFI but I have not much knowledge about mapping thing so I am afraid of toasting my engine after install everything.
Thanks Genro for your time and help.

 

BTW what year should the GSXR600 TB's be? could it be a 06-07? Used ones are pretty cheap on ...bay and I am seriously thinking about this awesome mod after ur article.

 

Also Genro how did u find thos TB's for 60bucks? are they brand new? do they come already with the injectors?

 

one more question does EFI need to be synche'd or they do electronically on laptop?

 

You can search Ebay for 'throttle bodies' and will find quite a few. Make sure you get the wiring harness as some injector plug connectors are hard to get.

Mutliple throttles are always synced, mostly via the throttle plate but some have a bypass port.

 

More questions came up where did u install the MAP sensor? any pics? What did u do with the IAT? did u create a connection (hole) on intake 3?
What about the wide band did u install it on ur header or exhaust? And this CLT sensor?

 

Well Darkfire I found several but on the price Genro mention only newer ones like 06/07 GSXR600 and my question still not answered if these 06/07 will fit like the 03 he used did?

 

Also Microsquirt was discontinued according to info from its dealer and they have no estimate when should manufacture get a new model to supersede.

 

The other great thing about EFI instead of carbs is saving since carbs need to be cleaned from time to time their kits are very expensive now a days so EFI will save u lots of money after years if u intend to keep the bike plus will raise the value in case u sell it.

 

Hey Genro if not much please could u send us a picture of how u did with ur tank to fit the rincon fuel pump?
Thank u very much

 

The current version is discontinued, but the replacement is not far away.

The new version will not have built in coil drivers or have a metal case.
Should be $50 cheaper though (according to the makers)

The system i'm running (Mircosquirt 'module') is unchanged and available.

 

What does it mean not having coil drivers? does that mean i gonna be able to keep my original coil or still need to move to a high voltage one? metal case should be a good thing but I seen some bicycles made of polymers with better resistance than metal lol. And Boeing have now the 787 plane with no metal.

 

Reason I am asking its basically should I wait for new version or buy an old one like yours while still have some old stock on ebay?

 

We seem to have taken over Gennros thread, so I made a shiny new one to answer your question; http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic ... tml#295423

 

Just an FYI to this thread, the Micro Module is available but with the 50 pin header to wire in and alternative comm and JP2 to wire in if used, is a lot of soldering and work. Plus you should have some experience with this kind of thing. Reading as much with the micro tune system is a huge plus to know before hand. Read as much about this system will help you with other EFI systems which are all basically the same running off the typical lm1949 microprocessors. I didn't spend more than $700 for pump, regulator, injectors (only running two independently), WBO2, Micro module, MAP, GM IAT, TPS and a Buell MAF. I also played around with the GSXR Hi-Z injectors that I got at a local salvage for $30. each.
I used the existing ignition pick up and trigger which works fine. You can utilize the wasted spark method quite easily. Isolation from RF noise is a must and there is many methods you can find on line to reduce from particularly the coils. I even used copper tubing, grounded, to run wires through.
Alternatively there are many simplified circuits available that can be built that are called Alpha N controlled. Meaning TPS and O2 are the main control factors and runs in basically an open loop mode. Most early EFI systems were this way. Once your read more about this stuff you'll realize a good working system can be built between $500 to $1000. Depends on where you find sensors, your capability to build hard components, understand electronics and have experience assembling basic circuits involving micro processors. Some have made Alpha N using the Arduino processors.
Learning this stuff may seem daunting but like anything else, once you start to understand the basics the rest is easier to learn.

 

Well compress i agree with u and have being doing some reading but there are lots of things there that dont explain well like keeping ur own trigger wheel and coils. And things like what TB's will fit directly with less hassle. Will the battery handle all that load and etc...
Those questions are more specific for a model and what u use for an XJ750 will not work for an XJ700 so specifics here was my question. Money was not the real issue but simplicity. Something simple not necessarily is cheap like the new Boeing 787 cost a lot more than an old B767 but its a lot simpler with a lot less systems. But thank you for your inputs. I am looking for as much plug and play i can do no matter much what price as far as i have less time to spend on it.

 

Wow!!!
Just been followin' the "Generals" build and updates.
Entirely righteous work!!! Rrrreal cool of you to share
all of this with everybody. Thank ya' sir! *****

 

Well just to let everyone know I scrapped this whole project and bought a 2001 Yamaha V-max for a good deal. So I don't have any of the stuff anymore and not real interested in answering questions.

 

since he finally scrapped it (and we all know why....) i felt i needed to say this.

other then learning about efi and how it truly works, this is a waste of time and money. this bike was meant to have carbs. no bike from the big 4 has been EFI'd using a carbed motor, something is always changed internally in the motor to help it run better for efi (i.e. they're producing a different type of head or the block is slightly different in terms of flow).

 

It actually ran fine and had lots of power, way more then with stock carbs. But I found the V-max for a deal and it has tons more power.

 

I totally disagree. Speaking as an experienced mechanic with 25 years specializing in EFI (5 of those as an instructor), I say hogwash!

I have personally put EFI on over 10 older engines that were carb engines, with much improvement. I have also fitted 2nd hand jap engines, swapping carbs to fuel injection as required.

Some engines *may* have different porting or cams to take advantage of the more precise fueling, but a fuel delivery system is a fuel delivery system is a fuel delivery system.

Will agree on the time and money bit though.

Edit; When you say no bike from the big 4 came out with EFI without changes, you do realize the XJ750 came out fuel injected in Japan with the same YICS engine?

 

Curses! I was going to mention the 750D model and you beat me to it.

*shakes tiny fist*

 

The time and energy spent converting an old bike should be considered. You guys know that you can buy an EFI bike starting at around $3K right? Sell your current carb bike for $1-2,000, save up during the winter months and buy something for $3-4K in the spring.

I was looking at $3-4,000 V-Stroms, Honda 599s, FZ6, and SV650s, before I found my $1,200 XJ. I was thinking about getting a sport bike with a nice upright sitting position and turning into a naked/muscle bike, but then I changed my mind and figured I better go cheap for my first bike. The XJ I found has some minor modifications that help to get rid of the hideous 70s/80s Jap bike look. It's a perfect learning experience as I take to the streets for the first time.

I think my next bike will be the FZ8, I love the look of that bike.

Like any project, don't forget to take a good hard look at the probability of you actually finishing the project.

 

By the time I finish my project bike, I could have bought a NEW bike with the money.
I could have bought another 2 XJ750s for the price of just the engine rebuild parts and machining.

I agree that EFI bikes are commonly available.

Projects are not for everyone.

I know a few people who have started large projects and failed to finish after lots of $$$$$, but I also know many who have finished.