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Advice before I buy please

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by MrPadleout, Apr 8, 2011.

  1. MrPadleout

    MrPadleout Member

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    I have a 1992 xj600 and I had it running last week for the first time. My float needles are shot bc they have a indented ring around the rubber end(correct me if I'm wrong) so I am planning on buying the dyno jet stage 1/3 kit. I'm just going to put in the jets for stock intake and exhaust. nothing more until I actually get her to run.

    Here is what its doing I had it running last week for about 30 min, started with starter fluid and I rode it around my neighbor hood and it shut off on me I looked under the gas tank and it is pooring out gas from what looked like the breather tube on top of the carbs (not positive) It started back up and i got it home and parked it (kept running), It stopped leaking while it was idleing at about 1200-1400 rpms. I disconnected the gas tank to see if i could find the leak. kept it running until it ran out of gas.
    I did not try to start it until the next day and then it would only start and rev to 3500rpm and die. nothing more.
    two days later, it wouldn't even fire up except for maybe once cylinder every now and then. and back fires out the exhaust sometimes too. this is still with the starter fluid.
    Turns out I have a leaky petcock (slow leak) Not even sure if it is enough to put gas in the floatbowls. but if it did, There would definitely be gas in my crankcase right?

    I have carb boots on the way too. because mine are shot but I had a temporary repair on them now that seemed to work while i had it running. It sounded good when she ran too.

    I am wondering if I should get this jet kit and a petcock rebuild and hope that is my only problem. the jet kit comes with the float needles and i was planning on buying the jet kit this summer anyways.

    please let me know if you can think of another issue it could be.

    Thanks again for all the help

    -Josh
     
  2. TIMEtoRIDE

    TIMEtoRIDE Active Member

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    Just my gut feeling - your float needles are not shot, and the dyno jet kit will just waste your money and time trying to figure IT out.

    The fact that the motor ran for 30 min. and had problems tells me you need to read the 3 loooong write-ups on this site about carb cleaning and tuning.
     
  3. MrPadleout

    MrPadleout Member

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    I should of mentioned that, I have already cleaned then very well and have been in the carbs 3+ times making sure they are clean, I also did the bench sync. before putting the carbs back on.
     
  4. Desinger_Mike

    Desinger_Mike Member

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    I second the "time to ride" opinion.
    Don't buy ANYTHING for the carbs. They need a PROPER cleaning first.

    Don't take short cuts, don't try to skip steps or BigFitz will get all upset :lol:
    Then YOU will have to tear them apart again and do the steps that you skip. There seems to be a lot of that going on this year!

    The needles MAY need to be replaced but a indent ring in the rubber tip doesn't mean they aren't functioning correctly.
    Clean the carbs, and then test the float levels and if they won't shut off and you can't set them up then you need needles.

    The float needles only do one thing. Shut off the gas when the bowls are full. If your float levels are right, then the needles are working.
    Make sure you verify that the petcock in prime gives you good flow into the carbs too.
     
  5. MiCarl

    MiCarl Active Member

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    Not sure why you put it back together with suspect float needles........

    Jets don't cause fuel to pour out the vents. Fuel coming out the vents is because something is wrong with the floats or float valves. If the needles have a wear mark on them they need to be replaced. The DynoJet kit doesn't include float needles so it'll do nothing to solve your overflowing problem.

    Order up 4 new float valves from Chacal.
     
  6. MrPadleout

    MrPadleout Member

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    oh i thought the kit came with the float valves. Thanks man saved me some money there. I'm still new to all this. So do I just pm Chacal?
     
  7. MrPadleout

    MrPadleout Member

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    I will be taking my carbs off again tonight also.
     
  8. pbthoe

    pbthoe Member

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  9. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    Here's all you need to do!

    Get your hands on a WorkShop Manual.
    You NEED one, ... BAD.

    You need to Clean your Carbs.
    You need to TEST the Fuel Pump.
    You may need to FLUSH the Fuel Pump.
    You may need the Petcock Tower Screen Cleaned.

    The Carbs should be Cleaned and Diaphragm Bores Scrubbed.

    The thing to do is acquire a WorkShop Manual.
    The FACTORY Book. ==> Specific to your Bike, ... alone.
    PERFORM ... ALL the Suggested Maintenance DUE and likely (long) OVERDUE.

    Forget the Jet Kit.
    That Bike goes good-enough STOCK to make you a front-runner on Track Day.

    But, for you to get the most out of owning that Bike, ... you NEED to get to know ALL about it.

    The YAMAHA Factory WorkShop Manual needs to be the FIRST Part you "acquire". (From any and all known sources from which its available.)

    You got yourself a sweet "New Gal"
    She's "High maintenance".

    Get that thing Dialed-in with all systems: GO.
    Don't putter-about on a Sport-Bike not ready to launch or take-off at the drop of a Green Flag.
    Get it ready to fight.

    Bring her to "Panel Lights showing: All Green!"

    92 XJ600SD Factory Service Manual
    Part Number: LIT-11616-XJ-63
     
  10. Saber

    Saber Member

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    Slow down on any purchases and lets get things sorted out. The carb boots were a good purchase and will help eliminate any possible air leaks.

    The first thing you need to get under control in the leaky petcock. Since the tank is empty, take the petcock off and inspect it. If the metal inside the petcock is in good shape and only the rubber is messed up then get yourself a rebuild kit.

    The second thing to do is get the carbs back off and get a picture of the inside for us to see and also a closeup of the float needles. Then we can give you more information. It really does sound like the only thing it needs is new float needles and then reseting the float height. But since you will have them out there is nothing better than a second and third opinion.


    On a side note: I would not waste the money on a performance jet kit on this bike. Its a 600CC and you really aren't going to see a big bang for your buck. If you get this bike running in its stock config and get the carbs syncronized I think you will be really happy with how it runs.
     
  11. MrPadleout

    MrPadleout Member

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    Thanks for the tips guys. I will look up the manual for this bike maybe try to find a download for one.

    My tank is half full, could I just turn it upside down to take off the petcock?

    I'll get right on those pictures too! Taking the carbs back off tonight.

    Thanks again!
     
  12. MrPadleout

    MrPadleout Member

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    Oh and chacal does not sell parts for this model bike he said... bummer.

    If it is the float needles, where could I find them?
     
  13. cutlass79500

    cutlass79500 Well-Known Member

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    if you put pods on it you wont need to do anything they are miracle workers lol. If you have pulled the carbs off more then 2 times spend the money and get kits have it over with. all that extra work to try to fix a wore out part isnt worth it. Like micarl says if you have gas coming out of your vents they are bad especially if you set the floats last time. Just an FYI if your needles are wore out you might get the float set right and the level will change in no time. Floats do not change settings if the needles were good they won't change from the factory as they wear your level starts changing
     
  14. MrPadleout

    MrPadleout Member

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    Cutless, What are pods? How much do carb kits usually cost? I'm on a tight budget haha. Thanks.
     
  15. MrPadleout

    MrPadleout Member

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    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The float needle pictures are blurry. My camera is not the best for close up pictures like that.

    I opener the carbs and the 1st carb float needle was stuck closed and the 3rd float needle was stuck opened.

    Notice the scratches on the needles. (who knows how that could of happened) I think that is what causes them to get so stuck. I couldn't even get a good enough grip with my fingers to pull out the first needle.

    One of the needles was also missing a clip and the guy before me used a spring. I shaped the spring to look like the clip and it seemed to work but when i tried pulling it out the spring flew off somewhere.
     
  16. cutlass79500

    cutlass79500 Well-Known Member

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    I had the same thing happen on my virago about 15 min of run time after cleaning . nothing more upsetting after all the work managed o free them with a tap of a hammer. Thought all was good then it stuck open a day later again I did end up having to replace the needles and seats
     
  17. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Pods are individual air filters and he was making a joke.

    The little retaining spring clips aren't ESSENTIAL to operation, but you need to replace the float needles anyway, and polish the valve seats as long as they have no rings worn into them.

    Your parts are still available from Yamaha: 1FN-14107-15-00 NEEDLE VALVE SET I'm seeing $18.79ea. in the fiche. http://www.yamahapartshouse.net/pages/p ... amaha.aspx

    While you're waiting for the needle valves to show up, you can take all the other jets out, and clean everything.
     
  18. MrPadleout

    MrPadleout Member

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    so a needle valve set is 19 dollars for one needle?
    Thanks again guys huge help
     
  19. MiCarl

    MiCarl Active Member

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    I think Chacal sells an aftermarket set that won't hit the wallet so hard. The big difference in the aftermarket set is that it does not include a very expensive Yamaha plastic wrapper.
     
  20. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Len already said he didn't carry parts for that bike; although I suspect that Mikuni parts for the 550s are probably the same.

    The $19 should include the needle and the seat, and probably the o-ring for the seat.
     
  21. TIMEtoRIDE

    TIMEtoRIDE Active Member

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    But why would they be bad at 13,xxx miles??
    From the scratches, it looks like somebody manhandled the needles, and may have scored the brass bores where they reside, causing them to stick in odd places. Which means - even NEW needles would stick in the "scratched" bores.

    Take a look, before spending $75.xx
     
  22. waldo

    waldo Member

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    Parts are a little cheaper here: http://www.yamahasportsplaza.com/pages/ ... 07-15-00/1
    only 2 bikes listed for these parts 1987 fazer 1000 and yours If your bike ran and the only problem was the gas overflowing this will fix that and you wont have to buy these parts again Its typical that carb 1 will be the worst one because the bike when sitting on the side stand leans to that side so its the last one to have the fuel dry out and by the time all the fuel has vapped away its really pretty nasty. In the parts diagram it looks like the floats are metal if they are you will want to check them for holes
     
  23. MrPadleout

    MrPadleout Member

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    yeah the scratches are the first thing I noticed when I pulled them out. 3 of the 4 needles have very similar scratches. I don't how this could of happened. I think the guy before me was an idiot. I'll check the seats now. Makes sense that the messed up needles could of messed up the seats. so I'd rather just replace it all and not take chances with just the needles anyways

    I checked them out and took a closer look at them. I need new ones. or at least two new ones.

    So the needle set has the seat included also?
     
  24. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I believe it includes the whole "set." The pic in the fiche isn't very conclusive.

    I would replace all 4 and reduce the "screwing with it" factor to zero.
     
  25. MrPadleout

    MrPadleout Member

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    Okay I order those up and change the oil bc there is prolly plenty of gas in there. shipping is 17 bucks! what a joke. I'll remove the jets and let them soke for a day or so and clean everything some more while I'm waiting.

    Thanks again guys. I'll keep you guys updated!
     
  26. Polock

    Polock Well-Known Member

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    on the float needles. under the spring keeper is a little pin that should move in and out nice and easy, can't really see but yours look stuck in.
    the needle seat in the picture has no shine in the bottom, you need to put a wee bit of fine steel wool on a q-tip, put it down in there and spin it with your fingers just till the shine comes back.
    the area on the floats where the needle touches (the adjustment tang) needs to be smooth, no scratches to catch that little pin on the needles
    , now your floats will work
     
  27. RickCoMatic

    RickCoMatic Well-Known Member

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    The Float SEATS Look like they need to be "Scrubbed"

    Cut a Strip of ScotchBrite Medium Pad and Twist it into the Float Seat to cleanse the Bore.
    Follow the Cleansing twist with a "Finishing Twist" of ScotchBrite Fine or SuperFine.

    Use Polishing Compound and Q-Tips to Finish them so they wont stick.
     
  28. MrPadleout

    MrPadleout Member

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    So it took close to three weeks for the needle set to come in, but that was my problem, thanks god. All I need now is a proper tuning and I should be good to go. Thanks guys
     
  29. Saber

    Saber Member

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    Glad to hear it!
     

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