Clutch failure, 1993 XJ600S

My 1993 XJ600S, about 60,000 miles, has suffered a clutch failure. Whether to bother getting it repaired or not is something I'm mulling over. Not sure how much labor will be involved (definitely not something I'd do myself).

I had noticed the day before that one launch from a stop was a bit abrupt. The next morning, as I left our neighborhood gate, the bike didn't move as I let out the clutch until it grabbed instantly. Metallic sound.

Brought it to a stop (which involved more engine braking than it should have), and took it back home. Had to kill the engine to stop in the garage.

On the centerstand now, pulling the clutch does stop drive to the wheel, but there's absolutely no freewheeling; the wheel locks when I pull the lever. So it's still "in gear" -- just the actual power is cut. And there's no slippage between drive and no drive.

If anyone has experienced this kind of clutch failure before and has an idea of the work/cost involved in repair, I'd love to hear it.

 

Clutches are actually quite easy, it's something you should be able to do yourself.

Here's pretty much everything you'll need to know: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=29541.html

At least this will let you see first-hand "what's in there."

 

I am no expert on your bike...that said, "Metallic sound"
sounds like a bearing failure of the clutch or the actuator. I'd take a look at that first. If you have absolutely ruled out taking it apart yourself then the only question is whether it's worth it to sink for $400 in labor and 200 or more in parts into a bike that has given you 60,000 miles. No dealer will reinstall 60,000 parts because of warranty issues (so you'll have to pay for parts that have not failed yet) So you spend the money and a piston crumbles up next month and completely destroys your engine……it’s a no-brainer.

LOL....Keeper....I'm guessing that most guys here would agree that your bike has performed admirably for you and doesn't owe you a thing. To get 60,000 miles out of a 600cc engine is a tribute to both Yamaha and to YOU for taking such good care of it.

If you have personalized your bike, remove those parts, find another, low mileage bike and reinstall them, then sell whatever is left.

Congrats on the miles! That’s really good! Now I'm suggesting that it's time to take a look in CL to find another!!

Here you go...

http://www.allofcraigs.com/

jeff

 

Anything in there could have let loose at that mileage.

I'd at least have a look; we had one member recently whose pressure plate exploded. Not an expensive repair at all, considering whole clutch assemblies for the 550/600 (and they're pretty much the same) go on eBay for as little as $10.

Don't assume it's going to cost $400 (unless you take it somewhere.) Depending on the exact failure, it's quite possible you could fix it yourself (and rebuild the clutch in the process) for right around $100. Yes, there could be more to it, but until you look, you won't know.

Pop the cover and see what happened. It should be readily apparent.

 

Yeah, don't throw in the towel. Going thru my clutch was about as difficult as removing the rear tire. Let's see what broke.

 

Yeah, I decided that I may as well have a look...

...but only got as far as removing the 10 bolts. The cover just won't budge. I know it was removed once before, as four years ago or so I had a shop attempt to locate the source of a leak the bike has had since about when I got it (about six years ago when it had only 3000 miles). They were unsuccessful -- the leak was coming from deep inside and it wasn't worth it to crack the engine open -- but I wonder if they put some kind of sealant on the clutch cover. There does appear to be a bit of goop sticking up around the edges.

Of course, it could be that I'm just not strong enough. I'm 130 pounds and 30 of those are my middle-aged gut!

I'll have to have another go when it's colder or warmer, maybe.

I was hoping this bike would last me more than 60,000, which is how far I got out of a Ninja 250 previously before it burned a piston. I guess technically I did get more out of it, as this XJ's odometer falls 0.1 mile behind every 4 miles. So it's probably at about 61,500 miles.

(I do ride things longer than they really should be -- a 50cc Yamaha Zuma II scooter for 13,000 miles (the odometer doesn't have enough digits for that), which still could have gone farther but the chain fell off the gas cap and got sucked into the engine, and a Honda CH250 Elite scooter for something like 30,000 (never broke down other than continually shredding its drive belt -- guess it doesn't like 150-mile trips at full throttle!).)

But as I can't afford to replace the XJ just now, working only part time while my fiancée is unemployed, I would rather like to get it working again (not mention she doesn't like having to take me to work every day!). It does need new brakes front & rear and a new front tire about now too.

As for the comments about a dealership not wanting to put old parts back in: That's moot. Out here, dealerships won't touch even a bike that's more than seven years old! There's a vintage bikes specialty shop that will work on the XJ.

 

Ah, the prying end of a hammer on the bottom pry tab has done the trick. Cover is off. Now to take the bits out and see what I can see...

 

One thing I notice straight away is that the center hub piece, which the clutch lever interacts with, doesn't feel like it's really connected to anything. It's quite loose in there, though I can't pull it out, either.

Of course, I don't know what it should feel like, so maybe that's normal...?

 

I think we have a winner! The "thrust bearing" is completely destroyed.

 

Can't seem to embed it, but thought you'd like a look at the damage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTkOeZD-0qg

 

Looks like your right on about the bearing. Take care to clean all of the pieces out of the clutch area. You need to get all the pieces out. Keep the clutch area clean from dust/dirt since you will have the side of the bike exposed.

Most likely the clutch plates are not damaged from this type of failure, but since you have them out you may as well check them to make sure they are in spec. If your clutch was running fine with no slipping, once you get the bearing fixed you probably can put it back together and be back on the road. Now that you see how easy it is to get it apart, when the clutch does finally start to slip you will know how to fix it.

One additional bit of advice, most likely when you get the bike back together you will need to adjust the clutch cable. It's not hard, but you will want to dial it in to get things running like they should.

 

Yeah, and I hope none of those little bits from that bearing left the clutch area and ended up in anything important. Those are obviously what created the metallic sound when the failure first happened.

I looked at a few of the plates, just eyeballing them, but they seem all right. Don't think I'll worry about them just yet. Definitely need to replace the rusted rod -- looked at it closely and it's beyond a mere scrubbing, I think. No wonder it destroyed that bearing.

 

The clutch housing area "drains" directly into the sump. I would pull the drain plug, and with the bike on the sidestand, dump a bunch of oil in there and let it flush back out the drain. The thrust bearing originally looked like the one in my clutch tutorial, so there are all those tiny rollers floating around somewhere.

If it were me, I'd pull the exhaust system and drop the sump rather than take any chances.

The thrust bearing can also be destroyed by running with the clutch cable too tight so that it's always under load.

Also, how's the area on the back of the pressure plate where the thrust washer's washer was supposed to ride? I can't see from the video what it looks like.

 

The back of the plate where the washer goes seems OK. Nothing warped or anything. Feels smooth. Some circular grime but I seem to be able to wipe it away without much fuss.

I'll definitely be flushing oil through it to get any errant rollers out after I clean everything and reassemble once I order replacement parts. There's a whole heck of a lot of them in the clutch hub, so I don't think they went anywhere. Fingers crossed.

 

Count 'em. That bearing is the same as the one in the 550s; you should have 20 little rollers. Yamaha pn 93340-21505-00, BEARING.

There should be a hardened steel washer between the thrust bearing and the pressure plate; you might want to replace that too. Chacal will probably have your parts, just tell him they're exactly the same as the 550 (NOT the "pullrod" though, just the bearing and washer. Pullrod is different.)

As long as the clutch hasn't been slipping, measure the thickness of the friction plates and compare to the wear specs for your bike. A "simple" clutch rebuild consists of friction plates, springs and a gasket.

When you put the clutch back together, be sure to refer to my pictorial so the pressure plate goes back on in the correct orientation.

I don't think you have the "tabbed" plain plates and clutch boss spring friction plate to worry about, just be sure the dot on the pressure plate is aligned with the dot on the hub when it goes back on.

The pullrod does just "flop around" in the pressure plate with the cover off. It rides in the pocket in the cover, so once the cover is back on it's not flopping.

 

Dammit. Got all the parts finally, putting it back together, and just snapped one of the outer cover screws. Didn't think I was tightening it that hard yet.

I guess as long as the broken bit is still in there, which it is, it won't affect much for now until next time I need to take the cover off.

 

.....and I'm going to have to remove the cover again anyway, 'cause I don't think the bottom clutch lever (whatever it's called) is positioned right, somehow. At maximum adjust on both ends of the clutch cable, the hand lever is very loose (I mean, I prefer a bit more free play than recommended specs, but this is still way loose). I think that bottom lever is indeed turned a bit more than normal.

 

You don't need to remove the cover; just pop the clip and lift the little lever off the splines. Turn the shaft as far as it will go clockwise (viewed from above) and reinstall the little lever. Why the book has you adjusting the lever position by how you position the whole thing when installing the cover is beyond me.

The shaft is symmetrically round, it just rotates. The lever can be placed anywhere it needs to be. No cover-pulling needed.

You may have a little rectangular "pip" cast into the case to help you position the lever, look closely.

 

Before I did that, I put the bike on the centerstand, put it in gear (engine off), turned the clutch lever... and couldn't turn the rear wheel. Maybe it's just still not wet enough, as I only have 2 quarts of oil in it at the moment since that's all I had left after flushing it before reassembling last night.

Now, I couldn't see a way to separate the lever from the shaft, so unclipped the shaft and pulled it out, but it won't go back in. The rod must have shifted inside or something. Blarg.

 

Thanks to your help, I do have it back together and sort of working. Huzzah -- almost.

Running it on the centerstand for now. Putting the bike in gear, apart from the initial clunk into 1st as usual, the wheel does not turn, and I can slip it a little bit and pull it back in all the way and the wheel stops -- all normal there, and all things which could not be done before the repair.

However, once I fully release it, then pull the lever in again, it seems the clutch does not disengage -- or at least not fully. If I put my foot on it, I can eventually get it to stop, but without that intervention it spins indefinitely. At first, it spun down slowly when pulling the lever back in, but once it got warmed up (I just ran it for about 15 minutes, remembering how long it took for the clutch to begin disengaging when I bought the bike from someone who had not run it for a few weeks/months), it has exhibited this never-stop behavior.

I do seem to be able to pop it into neutral without much fuss, and change into 2nd gear as well.

Of course it could be that it behaved this way all along and I never noticed because the road friction was stopping it just fine; I don't recall ever doing a test like this on the centerstand. But my instinct is telling me otherwise -- that pulling the lever in all the way should make it act the same as putting it into neutral. (Hmm, what I didn't do was to rev the engine with the lever in and see if that sped it up at all.... OK, just tested that, and strangely enough, revving the engine makes the wheel slow down quicker!)

So maybe this is actually normal. It seems rideable in this state, so I guess I could clean up the mess around it and try taking it out...