Lurch/stall while engaging first gear

I'm a new rider on a maxim 550.

I've been trying to get my bike going on the dead end road i live on, but have not had as much luck as i expected.

I start the bike in neutral, let it warm up for a good 3 minutes on choke, and then let it idle around 1200rpms for a few moments.

When trying to shift the bike into first, i slowly let the clutch out after kicking down, and the bike will suddenly lurch forward and the engine will die in gear.

I managed to get it in gear once (and it was fun), but have not had luck since.

After some reading, it could be the kickstand sensor, but it's working fine.

What am I doing wrong?

 

Are you sure you are giving it enough throttle? If it were the kick stand sensor it would die as soon as you "kick down" into first. Does the bike lurch forward with the clutch control fully depressed or does it do this in the process of letting out clutch?

 

It sounds like the clutch is engaging way too quickly (if you're not just letting it out too suddenly.)

We need some history on the bike, and your history with it; miles on it, etc.

There are a few possibilities; clutch adjustment would be the first place to start but it could have any number of problems, the clutch being only one possibility.

 

You're probably just being to timid with the throttle....slowly let out the clutch and twist the throttle at the same time...
check out if there are any basic riding classes near you, sometimes the MSF offers them if you are a new rider you should take ithat class. Its a great way to learn good sound riding skills.

 

I am not certain if i am giving it enough throttle. I don't want to overdo it and lurch even more, but if its that simply i can try blipping the throttle and letting out the clutch as the rpms come down. It lurches as i am trying to release the clutch, but continues to idle after i've kicked down, but with clutch held.

I very well could be letting the clutch out too quickly, but i'm letting it out very slowly in my opinion. I've recently done quite a bit of work on the bike with the help of a mechanic buddy, and he was able to operate it just fine. I'm a new rider and these are some of my first experiences.

Where can i get more information on clutch adjustments?

 

Is your street up hill?

If not I don't think you should need to give it throttle to get it moving in first gear. My 650 doesn't and the 250's at my MSF class years ago didn't either. And I'd place a safe wager I'm a larger guy than you are.

Are you maybe holding the brake while letting out the clutch?

Do you have a manual for it? You could find the procedure in there. I also think the clutch adjustment is outlined somewhere on the site but I'll leave it to the 550 experts if it's not.

 

iwin - you seriously don't need to give it any throttle to get it going in first?
My 650 needs it or it will stall....if i let the clutch out halfway i can walk along with it without any throttle but to let the clutch out all the way i definitely need to give it some gas...

 

Flat as could be and not holding the brake.

I have a clymer manual that doesn't cover this.

 

As long as the street is mostly flat. It'll take off nice and easy. Won't go very fast obviously but it'll move. Very nice in I-95 stop and go traffic.

Now I'm wondering if mine is normal or yours?

 

May be a stupid suggestion, but you are going DOWN with the gear selector, not up into 2nd gear right? Just checking

 

haha I don't know which is normal. Your a much better mechanic/maintainer of your bike than I am so lets assume yours is the norm!

 

iwin- what rpms does your bike idle at? just curious. If i dont give any throttle at stopped position my bike will stall after lurching forward as our friend describes.

 

Might I suggest letting somebody with some riding experience take your bike for a quick spin and "evaluate" the issue? For instance, if I were to ride it, I could tell right away if there was a clutch issue or not. But I've been riding for 42+ years...

Have your mechanic buddy take it out and run it through the first few gears for you, he should be able to tell you if it's a problem or just inexperience.

DO NOT grab a whole handful of throttle just as the clutch is engaging; you could find your first wheelie to be unrecoverable...

 

what bigfitz said....my vote is operator error (no offense)
see if you can find your friction zone...
really do what big fitz said thats the best advice.

 

great suggestion. Unwanted wheelies are NO FUN

 

1250 or as close to it as the needle half way between the 1k and 1.5k marks is on a facotry tach. Rock steady and super smooth. Plenty of power right off idle all the way up.

So, Fitz which way are the bikes supposed to behave? Should it move under power without throttle input or should it require some throttle input to get it going?

I certainly do not have 42 years riding experiance, I don't even have 42 years of life experience! :lol:

 

+1

A new rider myself, I can tell you that I'm very glad I took the MSF course. They taught us on 250's which were maintained very well. It not only allowed me to get comfortable with the controls but it also gave me a good feel for how a bike should operate.

Best of luck to you.

-Otter

 

The 550 doesn't have enough torque at idle to pull away from a dead stop with NO throttle. You will need to give it some throttle as the clutch is released for it to not stall. I suppose if you were really careful with the clutch, you could "creep" away at idle, but I doubt it.

I still say have an experienced rider take your bike for a spin; they should be able to point up any obvious issues.

 

Thanks Fitz. Good to know.

 

I thought idle is supposed to be set to 1050 +/- 100 rpm

 

It is on a 650 or 750. But NOT on the 550s. They idle a tad higher.

Regardless, the 550 (which we are discussing) will not be able to pull away from a dead stop with no throttle at all; it will stall.

 

You maybe right. I've got a bunch of numbers running loose in my head today. I know I have it set as close to what to book says as I can with a factory tach. Hasn't changed and I haven't paid much attention to it.

Mine still moves by just letting out the clutch gently.

 

The idle on the 550, according to my manual, is set to 1200. As Fitz says, you need to give it slight throttle when releasing the clutch. I have a standard transmission 5.0 litre Mustang, same scenario, it will pull away at idle if you really feather the clutch, but let's get the sucker underway and not hold up traffic.

 

Down for first, yep. Not a stupid question, but that's not my issue.

 

None taken, you're very probably right. Just need to figure out exactly what I'm doing incorrectly.

Based on my readings on this forum, that's usually the case.


The bike works correctly (I think) but it's a big learning curve.

 

Have you tried finding the 'friction zone' where the clutch just starts to engage?

Experiment by letting the clutch out slowly, and partially, and you should feel it start to 'grab'

That's the beginning of the 'friction zone'

Do that a few times, then try again, but this time gently twist the trottle as you go for the zone again. The bike should start to pull a little bit.

Pull the clutch in again, and repeat the procedure a few times

By now, you should be getting the hang of it, so when you feel ready, let the clutch out a little bit more, (NOT all the way!), and staying in the zone, twist the throttle a bit more.

The bike should pull more strongly, and move forward.

Again, pull in the clutch, and roll off the throttle.

Do this a few more times

Get comfortable with that friction zone

After a half-dozen mini-starts and stops, try going through the zone, while gradually increasing the throttle a bit more, until the clutch is fully out and you're moving forward in first

Unless there's something mechanically at fault, you should be well on the way

As soon as possible, sign up for a basic riding course

Good luck, and welcome to the brotherhood!

 

OK, when I was out last evening I actually paid attention to the tach when letting the clutch out, and tried to idle away from a stop, etc. Here're my observations:

-You could, I suppose, get the clutch all the way out on a 550 with no throttle but it takes MAJOR clutch "feathering" and the engine and driveline are not happy about it. Don't do this.

-You need to give it throttle.

-When taking off gently, like on a sidestreet, the clutch begins to be released as the tach passes 1500 on its way up, and the clutch is fully out by the time you pass 2000rpm. A harder launch might not see the clutch all the way out until maybe 2500rpm.

-Actually trying to pay attention to the tach and gauge the RPMs that're being used, etc., is a lot harder than I ever imagined. I guess I never realized how much of the process is "feel" more than anything else.

-I would recommend a bit of "hands on" instruction if you have any friends who ride, followed by a lot of PRACTICE. Go find a large deserted parking lot (churches are usually good exept on Sundays, or schools) and practice launching and stopping before you venture out among other vehicles.

 

+1 on what fits just said.... or take an MSF course....

 

Im taking an MSF course this weekend, so that should help me determine if it's something mechanical. All bets are on inexperience though.

Thanks for all the great input.

 

Yeah, as fits says, it really is more of a 'feel' thing.

Some of us have been riding so long it's difficult to remember how much time it took to begin acquiring those basic skills.

Keep at it, take that course, be patient with your bike and yourself, and it'll all come together

 

I find on any bike i've ever ridden: Hit her up to 2k or so rpm, let the clutch out till you feel the fiction zone (this could be quite a bit of the travel of the handle) Once the bike starts moving i'll STOP releasing the clutch.

As the drive train catches up to the engine speed, i'll let the clutch out slowly all the way.

Say you've got 3" of travel on your clutch handle. 1.5-2 inches will be the initial let out to get her rolling. Then there is 1" of MAJOR clutch action (Sometimes it's less -- 0.5 inch) for full clutch engagement.

If you follow fitz guide to feeling the clutch on a private parking lot you'll understand better

Edit: I did ride a shadow 500 once, that had almost the entire clutch engagement EQUAL throughout the whole movement of the control. It was VERY nice, and i'm not quite sure why it was like that.