recleaned carbs went to sync them and now runs worse

I have an 82 xj550. Been having problems with.it bogging down at about 2100 rpm. So took the carbs off and completely dissembled them and cleaned them up. Checked all the jets and passageways, performed clunk test, checked vaccuum diaphragms for holes or tears, put pilot adj screws back in place making sure the o ring and washer were in place and that they were reset to thesame number of turns out as previously set. Reassembled carb rack making sure enrichment shaft and throttle were working properly. Reinstalled carbs on bike. Then I made the baby bottle sync tool from this site. I also made another baby bottle into a hangable fuel source to make it easier to adjust thus carbs during syncing. Well fired the bike up and had carb 1&2 ports plugged and the lines from the sync tool attached to the ports 3&4. YICS cut off tool in place where it has been since before I bought the bike. The previous owner had been told. It would run better if left.in there. I will remove it after syncing the carbs. Anyway fired it up and it now runs worse than before I started. Wont stay running no matter how much throttle I give it. Enrichment circuit is on all the way. Wont start or stay running for any time without the enrichmentcircuit that way. Tried adjusting pilot screws a half turn at a time to see if that would help. Didn't help at all. Im at a loss and need some help. Have another issue with hi beam not working but that can be later.

 

What are your pilots screws set at? Did you bench sync the butterflies? Have you removed the yics tool to see if it is damaged? Did you set the float levels with the clear tube and fuel? Adjusted the valves yet? Compression test yet?

 

There's your answer. I believe I've already explained this to you in a different thread.

VALVES GOTTA BE IN SPEC FIRST; or your carb efforts will fail. (Where have I heard that before?)

You cannot synchronize (vacuum operated) CV carbs if your valves are not in spec; valve adjustment affects manifold vacuum.

You can't "deny away" the need for a valve adjustment; just freaking do it. FIRST.

Then, we'll talk about the proper method for setting the float levels and bench-syncing the carbs. Once again, I believe this has already been outlined in a response to your other thread.

Just asking the question in a new thread isn't going to change what you need to do to get the bike running right. We're not making stuff up here, I've done this now with two 550s; and I just got off my '83 after a 58-mile commute home from work. It ran fine. Like it has for the last 4000 miles since I got it done right.

Now. DO what has been outlined for you, IN ORDER, NO SHORTCUTS, and see what happens.

You're going to get nowhere at the rate you're going; and I'm not typing the same thing over and over. You will not succeed unless you do it right. You can't fight science.

Now get on those valves, fer cryin' out loud.

 

Thanks bigfitz I will do just as you outlined. I should have followed it the first time. My apologies to you. Budgets tight so was hoping to be able do something that would be low cost and have just done nothing but add time and frustration to my efforts

 

Valves need to be checked, BUT if the bike ran before you did the carbs, and will not run now, it wont be the valves that are stopping it, it will be something you have done.

Did you bench sync the carbs when they were off? Float levels checked?

The reason people on here keep repeating the same things to check, and show you check lists, is the simple fact if you follow them carefully without fail, it covers exactly what is needed to make an XJ run.

 

Very Common Reasons Why The Bike Won't Run After A Carb Cleaning:

1. No Gas.
2. Old, bad gas.
3. Gas in Tank not at high enough level to flow on "RUN"
4. No Fuel in Carb Bowls.
5. Gas line kinked.

Place gas in Tank.
Place Petcock to PRI for :45 seconds.

Only runs on Choke and stalls.
Not enough Gas in Bowls
Pilot Circuit Passages clogged.

TEST:
Try starting Bike using Starting Fluid.
Runs.
Yes: Problem Fuel Related
No: Ignition Related.

 

Here is an update. Just checked the valve clearances. Man were they off. Only had in spec on one valve. Here what they were. Will use I for intake and E for exhaust. #1 I .08mm E .05mm #2 I .10mm E .09mm #3 I .10mm E .10mm #4 I couldnt even get a .04mm under it. E .19mm. Now I got to locate a cup hold tool so I can take the shims out to see what they are.

 

Or you could use an alternate method: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=29209.html

Although I don't use it, others have with no ill effect.

Now you see why trying to sync was an exercise in futility.

One item from before: That "YICS Blocking tool" has to come out, and be inspected for potential crispiness. You may need a "proper" tool when the time comes; and you'll need to clean out the YICS passages first.

 

Thanks bigfitz for the link on using the zip tie method. I called the bike shops in town and they didn't have the tool or the shims. Even put in a call to the local snap on guy to see if he by chance had one. So will use this method tonight to pull the shims so I can use the chart you posted in your instructional thread on measuring clearances and changing the shims.

 

You need to get ahold of XJ4Ever. Chacal has aftermarket shims that cost half of what Yamaha gets; he has "the tool" and about every other part you'll ever need. Plus a wicked cool YICS tool that matches the factory one and actually works.

Sounds like you're on the right track now.

(And you're beginning to discover why "taking it to a shop" is not a viable alternative...)

Welcome to the wonderful world of quarter-century old motorcycles.

 

The Valve Shim Exchange Chart is prominently featured in Workshop Manuals for the XJ-series Bikes.

You should get your self a Manual.
If you get the Yamaha Factory Workshop Manual it has the Owners Manual printed in the front section.

Becoming familiar with the information in the Manual will make your ownership experience more enjoyable.

As problems arise, you will have a Reference Manual to quickly look-up what needs to be done to take corrective measures.

The expense of purchasing a Yamaha Manual is paid back the first time you use the Manual to accomplish a repair of maintenance you might have had to have done in the shop.

 

Well I got the shims ordered from chacal along with a tach gear oil seal and o-ring. Mine was leaking..I used the insulated wire method to hold the valves open and it worked great. Pulled the yics cut off tool out that the previous owner left in there..Seals were still pretty good. It uses Viton o-rings..Now to clean out the yics chamber and ports. After that I will do a search in the forums on how to adjust the pilot screws so that I'm ready to sync and tune after I get the shims and seals installed and put her back together. This multi carb thing is all new to me. Have worked on lots of cars and small engines but all had single carbs or were fuel injected..

 

The thing to be aware of and remember, ... with regard to the Pilot Mixture Screws is this:

The "Fine-Tuning" of the Pilot Mixture Screw is a PRECISION Adjustment.
NOT ... a Turn or two.
No.
The Fine Tuning of the Pilot Mixture Screw is but a matter of a FEW DEGREES.
It is possible to go from too LEAN -to- too RICH >>> within <<< a 1/4 Turn.

Once you have found the Spot where the Engine will IDLE on the Pilot System with Throttles Closed ...
It's only necessary to Enrich the Mixture a few Degrees to have the Carbs correctly Tuned for a No-hesitation acceleration from Idle to Off Idle and over to the Mains.

 

Hey RickCoMatic I always read on here to start at 2 1/2 turns out then after vac sync use the colortune to get it correct then back to sync and finally colortune. Is that right?

 

2-1/2 Turns Out is the Yamaha Factory Preset that worked best for passing Emission Standards for New Bikes.

Most Dealerships changed the setting to "Just-short-of-three" at the 500 or 1,000 Mile Check-up and Re-plugged the Carbs.

The adjustment was to Enrich the Mixture for better Idle and Performance.

Upon the advent of ColorTuning, ... The setting became variable according to Engine conditions and the consensus among ColorTuning added even more Richness, ... some finding the "Blue (Idle) + Supplemental Richness" needed for good, steady Idle without Hesitation upon Off-Idle Acceleration to be
BEYOND 3 Turns Out.

The settings will differ from Bike to Bike and Hole to Hole.
Depending on:
Pilot Jet Size
Condition of Pilot Mixture Screw Regulating O-rings

(I have removed O-rings that look like Flat Washers they were so squished.)

 

Deliveryguy I agree with all the advise from Rick and Bigfitz there is only a couple things that I would add.
1) You will need to set your float levels and while you are at it check your needle and seat (DONT mix them up, they are matched!) The seat has a screen that may have gotten plugged. Each carb has one.

2) I know I will hear a bunch of cr@p for this, but I use a set of mercury sticks to sync my carbs with. I have tried alternate methods like sync rods but all those others are a big pain in the butt.... to me.

Personally if it ran in the first place it should run at least that good now. Since it doesn't without the fuel enrichment cuircut open all the way, I am inclined to think you might have some fuel blockage. Try disconnecting the fuel line and run some fuel into a container and see that you have good flow.
If your flow is good then you need to consider taking those carbs apart and removing the seats and checking the screens. Check the fuel passages in the bottom of the float bowl too while you are at it, they get plugged and you will need them to be opened if you are to bench set your float levels with clear plastic tubing. (there is a thread in this site that will tell you hoew to do this)

If you dont have an inline fuel filter DONT do anything else until you get one.
All that hard work your doing will be for not if you have trash in your fuel tank!!!!

Dont forget to adjust those valves and then when you do get it running and are ready for fine tuning get ahold of a Gunsons Color Tune!
There is no easier way to dial in those carbs!!

Good luck! Vintage bikes are worth the extra effort!!!!

 

Good to know

 

I remember a similar thread from several years ago.
The Member did a magnificent job cleaning the Carbs.
Followed the book to the letter.

There's the rub!
The book was wrong.
He had the Pilot Jets and Min Jets reversed.

If you can only get the bike to run using the choke, ... you're adding gas.
That means there's not enough gas getting IN.
Check to see if you have the Jets in the right places.

 

Cleaned out the YICS tube and ports. Used my gun cleaning kit. Ran the 20ga cleaning brush down the main tube with hoppes #9 on. Then swabbed with patches. After that put the. 22 cal cleaning brush on after putting a small 90 degree bend in the end. Used that to get up in the YICS passageways then swabbed the main tube with patches again. Also after doing some research on here I ordered 4 new pilot screw o-rings from chacal. Mine were flat as the tiny washer that sits above them. I didn't know they were not supposed to be that way till after doing some extra reading on carb cleaning in the forums on here. Want to make sure I haven't missed anything. If anyone is new on here like I am and you need parts check with chacal. Len is pretty quick at responding to your parts questions and gets the parts out the door pretty quickly.

 

I think I've got research overload. It was Ricks reply on this thread that mentions coming across pilot screw o-rings that were as flat as the washer. Having a hard time remembering where I've read what on this site. Lol

 

Well I got the valve shims, tach gear oil seal and o-ring from chacal Tuesday. Finally got time to get out to the garage tonight and put the new tach oil seal and o-ring in. Then replaced the valve shims. Rotated the crankshaft about 4 or 5 times then checked clearances. Im a little confused. The exhaust on# #4 was .19 mm and the only one that was in spec when I did the initial check. Now its down to .10 mm. I didn't change anything on it. I measured it twice when I did the initial check. How is it possible that it could change so much. Will finish checking all clearances tomorrow nite after work. And rotate the crank some more and recheck everything. To tired to do it tonight.

 

Was the engine warm? That will cause some problems. Also did oyu have the lobe point pointing away from the shim? It has to be directly oposite the shim to read right.

 

WOO HOO!!!!! Just finished up with doing all that was instructed to fix my problem with the bike. She purrs like a kitten when idling. And runs like a striped ***** ape when you open it up. It still has an occasional bog at 2100 but I think just a little more tweaking of the pilot screws making the mixture a hair richer will have it where it needs to be. I want to thank all of you for your advice and thank Len at chacal for being a great supplier. I am a happy camper right now.

 

Hell ya!!!!! Ill bet you still have that grin on your face. Put some miles on her before you tweak on it again and burn some of the soot out of her use good fuel and keep the Rs up when you ride she might just smooth right on out for ya