Oil Level Indicator Window Mystery

Hey guys,

Quick question to anyone out there who might have had this happen to them or possibly knows someone who's had it happen to them. With my luck this will be a first and no one will have a clue.

Ok, so me and the family went out last Saturday for a few hours. When I left, my bike was fine. Resting in her usual spot in the garage, no problems. Now when I got home and opened the garage door I got hit with the strong smell of gas and oil like it smacked me in the face. Just like that tums commercial..."is your food fighting you back"?....haha...I love those. Ahem...anyway...there was a large puddle of oil under my bike. Probably about 2 quarts worth. Upon further investigation I noticed the little window where you check the oil level on the crankcase cover was not there. Hence the oil all over the place. I got a flashlight and started looking for it. I was figuring it was on the floor somewhere. Wrong! It was in the crankcase. Somehow it got pushed in the crankcase? Now that just weird. So over the past 3 days I have vigorously interrogated anyone who may have touched my bike. Most of all my kids. They deny touching her and they know if they ever do....they get punished so I had to use careful tact on this one but I believe them. They rarely lie and I'm thinking it would take more strength than that of the finger of a 6 year old to push that in. Also, again, the bike was fine when we left. Not a drip of oil anywhere. So the mystery is..how the heck did that happen? Anyone ever hear of that happening? The only other thing I can think of is that it went from really hot here to somewhat chilly overnight and maybe the rubber around it just contracted so quick it fell out? I dunno. Maybe a ghost did it. Anyway, if anyone had any insight to why this may have occurred, please feel free to share it with me because I'm stumped and I'm kinda scared to ride it even after I fix it. I don't need that happening to me on the road. That would be bad, very very bad.

Thanks in advance guys


Oh yeah, forgot to add it's a 1993 XJ600 SECA II with about 20,000 miles.

 

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/partviewer/ ... MOTORCYCLE)/CRANKCASE_COVER_1_(XJ600SE_-_1993)

Don't know why it suddenly came off, without knowing how it's supposed to be affixed. Most of the guys here have the early 80's bikes, but someone will probably know and show up with an answer. The vendor here, Chacal, lists oil sight glass items as follows:
Clutch Case Cover Oil Filler Lever Gauge "Window":


HCP1038 OEM clutch cover OIL LEVEL GAUGE. This clear sight window at the bottom front of the clutch cover that allows you to see the engine oil fluid lever. You must remove the clutch cover itself in order to replace this item. Fits all XJ550 models.
$ 10.00
HCP1039 OEM clutch cover OIL LEVEL GAUGE. This is the clear sight window at the bottom front of the clutch cover that allows you to see the engine oil fluid lever. You must remove the clutch cover itself in order to replace this item. Fits all XJ650, 700, 750, 900, and 1100 models.
$ 16.00
Here's a link to yamaha's parts diagram showing the case cover and the guage.

 

I'm assuming it's just pressed in. I ordered a new one from Bike Bandit already and a gasket for the crankcase. Just got them today. I plan on pulling it apart tonight or tomorrow to see wtf happened in there.

 

It's just pressed in. (Yours is virtually identical to the 550s)

It shouldn't have come out, or been able to be pushed out by a 6-YO.

What oil are you using, and/or have you run any sort of "snake oil" (SeaFoam, Z-Max, STP, anything else) through the crankcase other than just oil lately/ever?

I've never had one come loose; I had one in a PO-repaired (welded) cover start to seep slightly on me, but a drop of CA (superglue) fixed it.

 

That's what I thought. It is just a total mystery what happened to this thing. Nope, never added anything to my oil. Ever. When I put this new one in I might just put a very thin layer of clear silicone around the rubber to give it a little extra holding strength.

 

you have some serious gremlins living in your garage! I can even imagine a set of circumstances that would have one fall IN, much less out by itself. Gotta be one of the kids, or little green creatures.

 

Yeah man. No kidding. But I can pretty much guarantee it wasn't my kids. Honestly, I don't think either one of em has the strength in their little fingers to do it. Plus, they know better. In addition to that even if they did do it, it would have spilled the oil out immediately and she was dry as a bone when we left that morning. I dunno man. Maybe I should call one of those paranormal activity teams ya see on TV. ha.

 

Palmetto bugs

 

Well I would love to blame them but we don't have those here in NC. Yet.

 

The server here at work is blocking me from looking at any sites showing how this is put together. Yet I can get on a message board!

Anyway, one of my theories is that it had become loose and just slid out into the crankcase. Otherwise it would take a lower pressure inside the crankcase to "suck it in" as they say. What would cause that, hmmmmm?

 

This happened to another member a couple of years ago and was equally mysterious then.

The ONLY thing I could think of would be a plugged breather making it so that the whole crankcase created a giant VACUUM when it cooled down, and "sucked" it in.

Or it was aliens. Really small, nearsighted ones that thought the sight glass was the door to their UFO.

 

Yeah...or a portal to another dimension. Too bad I'm not small enough to fit through the darn thing. I could use a trip to another dimension right about now. Then again...I would have ended up on the garage floor in a pool of oil only to be washed away with dawn dish washing detergent and simple green by a hose and gone down the sewer. Hmmmm...maybe I'm better off staying where I am.

 

As I was reading down the replies, and wondering what would create a lower pressure inside the case, I thought "clogged breather tube to the airbox" then read fitz' reply. Great minds? Just kidding fitz, I am but a lowly wannabe.

PepNYC, you said you smelled gas too. Is there gas in the oil, can you see it in the filter/airbox? Maybe it was close to clogged, then for whatever reason you got gas in the oil - carb float valve issue, etc. This might have lodged a chunk of goo in enough to seal the tube, and the cool down then created the vacuum.

Just a thought.

 

Thanks guys. I'll take look at that breather hose and let ya know.

 

Dan had a valid suggestion: Not only check the breather hose, but check the oil for gasoline pollution. It might not be a bad idea to have a peek in the airbox, where the breather ends up.

Be careful though; aliens are known to hide in the airbox. Tiny, oily, angry aliens.

 

Ok, I checked the airbox. Looks clean. Now where exactly do I find this elusive breather hose? Or did the gremlins run off with it after they wrecked my bike? I know. They traded it with the angry aliens for weapons and female aliens.

 

The breather hose is right here, near your clutch throwout arm (which, in this particular picture was stolen by probably the same gremlins that molested your fine XJ):



It goes up and connects to the back of the airbox. There's a one-way valve on the tube to let air out of the crank case, but not back in. If you take the hose off, stick that oily hose in your mouth hole and blow through it on both sides. Make sure that little valve is working correctly.

 

In my "mouth hole" yuck...how vulgar. I have a better idea. I'll use my air compressor.

So that one way valve is actually in the hose itself?


Thanks for the pic.

 

That little valve should be half way up the tube

 

Andrew, that's a cool youtube vid ya got up dere. What kind of helmet cam did you use for that? Also, which bike were you riding? Sounded nice and smooth.

 

Hey thanks! If you're referring to the featured vid on my channel, that was on a Ninja EX500. And for that I had a GoPro sitting in my face behind the visor lol.

I had been waiting on some replacement lenses for the case since rocks chewed it up a few videos back, so I couldn't mount the camera anywhere. Thus, the only place to record was shoved in the helmet without the mounting case haha.

 

I was thinking a really blocked breather when I posted earlier but I'm not as well versed on the details like Fitz.

My bike does not appear to have a valve in the breather line. It really looks like a factory item too (preformed, not just tubing off a spool). ???

 

Geez. I just watched the gopro mounting vid. Resting between the visor and your nose? haha. Crazy kid. Oh and I don't think you have enough bikes in your garage. You need more!!!

 

They're not all mine. /sigh

Maybe one day

 

Yeah, I'm going to pull it all apart either tonight or tomorrow and see whats going on. If you don't hear from me after this evening the gremlins got me.

 

You're in Charlottle...hmm that's not too far. On first sight of gremlins, shine the "XJ" spotlight into the clouds (You know, like Batman), and there will be some members en route. LOL.

 

Well that's good to know. I know what I can use. My little green laser. If I move it really really fast maybe I can spell XJ in the sky with it. Ha..yeah right. If I could move my hand that fast I'd never leave the house.

 

Hey, you ever ride the Dragon on the Blue Ridge?

 

No! Pretty bummed about it, too. I rode PAST both the Blue Ridge Parkway and the Dragon on my trip From GA to PA recently, but for the lack of time I had to take the interstates. Really wish I could have detoured. Before the end of the year, though, I want to visit both the Dragon and the BRP, at least up to Asheville.

 

Dude, you are freakin hysterical. I just watched your "Organ Donor" vid. Too bad ya don't live closer. I have trouble finding folks to ride with over here.

 

Haha I just have fun with the vids -- it's a good outlet for some creative energy

 

Well, here goes nothin. Just got home from work and now I'm gonna rip her apart..heh heh

 

The 550s don't have a check valve; just a hose.

Yours is fine. Or should be; check and make sure it didn't get kinked and then baked in a kinked configuration, my '81 came that way.

However, on the 550 Seca (only) you do need to stay on top of this: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=31872.html

 

Ok, here's what I did. Pulled off the tank and airbox. Checked for gas in the airbox. Nothing. No gas or oil. Clean as a whistle. Checked the breather and hose. Both were clean and Fitz is right. There is no check valve on these bikes. I verified that with the diagrams over on yamahas website. However, there is a picture of a hose that comes off the left front bottom of the airbox with some kind of inline filter and I don't have that one nor do I have a clue where the other end connects to. I also checked the petcock and that seems to functioning properly. I Drained the oil and it does have a gassy smell to it. Pulled the crankcase cover and found the oil level window just sitting there. No signs or any tampering at all. I'm clueless guys. I am truly starting to believe your gremlin/alien theory. The only thing I could think of after reading a bunch of posts on this is that my float levels were set incorrectly. That should be corrected now since I just rebuilt the carbs about a month ago. Maybe this vacuum was building up inside the crankcase since before I rebuilt them? I dunno. I'm grasping at straws at this point. Anyway, I'm getting ready to put her back together with her nice new oil level indicator window. And let me just add, I put the old level indicator in and tried to push it out and let me tell you, there is no way on god's green earth that any 6 year old pushed that thing out. My finger still hurts from pushing so darn hard. If anyone has any further insight or comments feel free to post em up and thanks for all your help thus far guys.

 

i ran into this last week....... if you dont regularly change your oil, these little guys form inside the crankcase..... for almost microscopic... they are STRONG!!!!!! and they HATE glass!!!!! so im betting a paycheck that they took it out!!! im just playing, i have no clue!! dont stress over it unless it happens again. pepnyc gravestone read "died from frustration over a 3/4" piece of glass" rip

 

What I said was that there's no "check valve" on the 550s. I've never worked on a Seca II, just the early but quite similar 550s.

Andrewlong is a much better resource on the Seca II, as he has two of them. Maybe there IS supposed to be a check valve, and yours is missing?

Check the fiche. http://www.yamahapartshouse.net/pages/O ... ibrand=YAM

 

Well, I can't honestly say I'm a good resource because I was wrong! There is no check valve on the crankcase breather hose. I was thinking of the airbox drain hose, which does in fact have a check valve.

Also, as Pep said, the fiche doesn't show a valve

Whoooopsie.

Even if there was a check valve, I think that thing would go KABLOOIE before the window popped in from some mysterious pressure!

 

Yeah but you can go in the garage and look and I can't.

I was thinking that a clogged check valve would be the same as a blocked breather tube.

What's REALLY WEIRD is that there was another forum member, long drifted away, that had the exact same issue about two years ago. And I'd swear it was a Seca II as well. He/we never solved that mystery either.

 

Yeah well, I don't believe this mystery will be solved anytime soon either. I have yet to put the new oil in and take her for a test ride but so far everything went back together smooth. No issues. I'm almost positive that gas smell in the oil was from before I rebuilt the carbs. I remember after riding her each time I'd park her in the garage and then come out an hour later and the garage would stink like gas. I'm pretty sure my float levels were jacked up. All that should be cleared up now but only time will tell. I'll keep you guys posted if those b@stard gremlins show their ugly faces again. Ride safe fellas.


Oh, wait...one more question. Andrew....what is that airbox drainhose you mentioned? I don't seem to have one of those. Where does it connect to and from?

 

Oh it's just a little fella that connects to the bottom of the airbox (closer to the left side), and then goes down between intake #1 and #2, and it ultimately hangs near the front of the swingarm. It's so any moisture can drain from the airbox rather than pool up and get sucked into your engine.

 

Ah, ok. That's the hose I'm missing. So it just hangs down between the intakes? Interesting. I have to look at the fiche again and see what size hose I need for that guy. Ya know, now that I'm thinking about it, I think that was the hose with the filter or valve on it. I have to have another look. Hey, if anyone knows a good site with a clear readable diagram of the vacuum hoses for this bike, please let me know. The fiche really suks for that.

 

And nearly three years later it happened again. I don't know wtf is going on.

 

So let's revisit some possibilities:

-what oil are you running?

-does your bike get "laid up" over the winter, or do you ride it year round?

-do you use any additives in your oil, or SeaFoam or Stabil in the tank, if it gets "put up" over the winter?

 

Just read the whole thread. An interesting mystery to say the least!

I'd like to know if the gas smell is present again this time. When you discovered it, had it been leaning on the side kickstand, or is it relatively level from being on the center stand? I'm assuming it's leaning, and that the breather tube is on the low side and the sightglass is on the high side.

My best hypothesis is that if there is indeed gasoline in the crankcase, and the oil level is low, then letting it lean might mean a layer of gasoline is touching the sightglass, and the lower viscosity is allowing it to penetrate past the gasket (there's a gasket, right?) and it may be weakening or corroding it. That, combined with just the right atmospheric temperature differences might be enough to pop it out. Or in. Give it a nice hot day, and the gas would evaporate in the crankcase a bit, escaping out by the gasket it weakened, then at night when it's cooler, it would condense and create just enough vacuum to pop it in, especially given the weakened state of the gasket.

This is of course all contingent on there being a gasket at all. Take it for what it's worth.

 

Though, on second thought, there's nothing sealing off the breather side. That kinda ruins my hypothesis, eh?

 

Oh man BW do I hate to pee in your cornflakes but: there isn't a "gasket" the sight glass in "embedded" in a rubber seal with a steel core like any oil seal except this one has a sight glass instead of an ID bore in it. And the rubber-to-core ratio is quite high in favor of the rubber, which makes me think...

You may be onto something in regard to the sidestand: The 550/600 will lose ALL oil in the clutch housing when it's on its sidestand; you can do a quick clutch job without losing a drop.

If this bike is on the sidestand during storage, the seal (affected by SOMETHING) and no longer submerged in oil may be drying out or shrinking for some other reason allowing it to pop out.

I'd get a digital caliper on the popped-out sight glass as soon as possible, and then compare it to the measurement of the new one.

I'm betting the sucker shrank. Shrunk?

If it was stored on the centerstand then never mind.

 

Ha! I have no cornflakes for you to pee in, Fitz, but if I did then you using the phrase "pee in your cornflakes" would totally make up for it. I guess now we play the waiting game to see how he stores his ride.

 

It takes a village to make good soup.

You brought up one possible factor that was overlooked that very well could make a difference.

Or we chalk it up and get another beer.

 

Beer: the solution to, and cause of, all of life's problems.