Dumb move... bad start to my day... and idle issue debugging

Took the new SECA 750 out today to give it a good run with some seafoam, even if it just starts to loosen the gunk in the carbs before I get in there.

Anyway, 1/2 way to work, get pulled over. But I just finished the blinkers, I just finished the brake light, I just got the wiring finished... the exhaust is on, it's loud, it's a 4-1, but it's tight without leaks... got my helmet, glasses, gloves... what the hells wrong?

Oh - perhaps the inspection sticker... that coincides with the incorrect, not registered plate?

Pardon the pun, but that's the ticket! haha.

Ya... dumbbbb move on my part, but I just threw an old plate on and hit the road... I work 80 hours a week far away from town where I can register it, and have just wanted to get a first few test rides in... clearly my fault. There goes $103!

On a side note... it's running pretty good, but it is idling high after warm... but I have checked for air leaks with propane and nothing shows. Compression test was great, no leaking valves or head gasket etc...

It's semi- erratic too, not EVERY time I idle down. I know for a fact float levels are off, or jets are dirty (seems more sediment than actual clogs/varnish/restriction)

Basically I can recreate it all the time, if I get on it full throttle @5-6k, it chokes up for a few seconds then revs free to redline. When I do THIS, the first time I come back to idle it stays about 2k.

Sound like sediment getting sucked up? Either that or sticking slides I think... the way it feels when I am ''getting on it'' around 6k it actually feels a bit more like a sticking slide... if it were sediment it probably wouldn't clear up, right?

Bad start to the day... but I got what I needed done. Cost me $103 and a trip to the parking lot where I left it to pick it up later though... ugh. *slap self* :evil:

 

Re: Dumb move... bad start to my day... and idle issue debug

:? Have you tried to drain the bowls to get the sediment out? I do run seafoam too, but as a "final" clean to get the buildup out of the passageways and such.
Bummer about the ticket. One time I put a "current"plate on a bike to get it smogged. When the operater at the smog test ran the plate he noticed it wasn't for that bike and gave me the stinkeye and gave me a speach about how that wasn't koscher. They still ran the test and I got my sticker later so all went well.

 

Well after working on 3 other sets of these carbs, I am not willing to open those drains before I do a full removal and cleaning of the carbs. Those drains are not easy to get out if neglected like these bikes usually are, doing so for the first time with them still mounted on the bike is not an easy task!

 

I think it makes more sense that it's a sticking slide, there is a fuel filter that looks good, the bike was running until only a few months ago and seems to be pretty well taken care of. I can see after some time sitting the slides might get sticky. It's definitely not all of them either because you can hear and feel it TRYING real hard to get over 6000 for a few slit seconds then it coughts farts and off it goes. lol

 

Hanging idle=float levels and/or sync

 

Well I don't think it's sync because it's not always doing it. Feels a lot like float levels. Choking up when I am wide open like it's starving for fuel, then running lean when idle.

On another subject Fitz - do any of the 550s have anti dive?

Not used to the no-handlebar mounted master cylinder... my calipers (at least 1) was frozen on the new bike, so I swapped a functioning set from the other 750 that worked. The master came to us in pieces and was put back in place, refilled, and now I can't seem to get fluid to flow. It did gravity bleed for a while, but barely anything is coming out now. Pumped a million times, shook the lines thinking there is an air bubble stuck somewhere... can't get fluid to flow. It's very slowly coming out of the lower bleeder for the anti dive, but the caliper doesn't seem do be getting any fluid.

Yes, I am riding around with no front brake and a rear that hasn't been opened yet. lol... Stupid!
But I do know that the PO had opened, not replaced, but had seen and checked the condition of the rear. It doesn't grab great, but he said they were there, in decent shape, and not delaminating.

 

One thing I found that worked that get fluid flowing on my system that had been dry for years was to take the banjo fitting off the caliper, then just using my thumb and forefinger make a seal on it, Then as you squeeze the brake lever, allow the very small volume of air bleed off, then squeeze tight before you release the lever. You can do this many times faster and easier then using the bleeder and it pulls enough fluid into the line to begin a proper bleed. reconnect the line and do the other side the same way. Once both lines have enough fluid in them they are far easier to get a good complete bleeding on them.


OR....just go buy a vacuum bleeder.



edit: so you are riding an illegal bike that has not yet recieved proper tuning, (no valve adjustment either I would guess), without anything close to a safe braking system shortly after its been posted another member here, on a SAFE bike even, was recently killed? yeah, thats brilliant. :roll:


...and the Darwin Award goes TOOOoooo...?

 

Simmer down lol... the bike was taken well care of by PO. He had paid a dealer to do a full tune/sync (I believe he said middle/late last summer, and he only put 650-700 mi on it after) and The starter went on it, he let it sit for a few weeks, decided to part it out to get a newer bike. After taking off the dash/headlights, exhaust, seat, rear fender/tail section... he let it sit for a few months and now had to get rid of it because he's moving and his landlord wants it out of the basement before he shows the house. Come to find out I know him via my business, so he's not lying to me just to make the sale. He's a good guy.

So yes, I took it around a few blocks here and there, and I admitted it was a dumb idea. When you work 80+ hours a week for 3+ years, and every so often take a $200 check, maybe once a month or less often, from your family business... money gets tight and your head isn't straight sometimes. I thought to myself "I am only going a few blocks around, I have a plate, and I don't have the cash for registration till this weekend." Yes - I didn't think about the registration is probably only $30... I was thinking my car registration, so I wasn't thinking straight.


As for the bleeding that sounds like a good idea, but how cheap are vacuum bleeders? I've never used one but I was thinking about it. I think I saw one at autozone I think I'll go google it!

 

This is the kit I saw, I guess it's not a vacuum bleeder.
http://www.autozone.com/autozone/access ... 46839_0_0_

 

Re: Dumb move... bad start to my day... and idle issue debug

that kit you used works with a check ball valve I think. Those work well once you have pressure but are better suited to cars/trucks and not our bikes with as little fluid as we push to begin with.

you want something like this:
Vacuum bleeder kit


its a pretty handy item to have around and be can be used for more than just brake bleeding (like testing vacuum lines and other "sealed" systems.

 

I have a Mity-Vac, it works great. I do the final bleeding by hand, the old-school way though. But the vacuum works great to refill a dry system. Old Yammies are still a BEEOTCH to bleed, I still think it's the rough machining (grooves) in the caliper bore trapping microbubbles. NEVER had any sort of the grief with a smoothly bored caliper, like in my Norton. (The front brake is a Lockheed.)

 

Yikes that's the only one I saw, don't have that cash right now... if I feel I can ''spare'' some of the parts from the old bike, maybe I will make some cash and get that.

Orrrr maybe I can borrow one from my mechanic if he's got one. Wonder if Autozone rents those? =D

 

My Mity-Vac kit was less than $30. It doesn't have a gauge or anything; they make a whole range of kits you just need the cheapie.

Oh, and I missed your question above, sorry. None of the 550s had anti-dive, nor did the 650 Seca. I'm pretty sure that was limited to the 750 Secas and the 900s, not sure about the 650 Turbo.

 

Not on either year of the turbo....


jeff

 

wow, that's pretty cool that I have two with it now then lol. On the other side. that master is a PITA to get to work on... have to remove at least auxiliary light and bracket behind it... maybe even the headlight. At least there is a fill port on it, but that does me no good to see inside to make sure it's functioning! lol I'll look for a mity-vac, thanks Fitz.

 

A trick that I've used for years to refill a newly rebuilt master cylinder & lines are to remove the brake line at the M/C if you have already reconnected it(you can leave it connected to the caliper, just open the bleeder a bit,place a 18" hose over each bleeder and stick into a jar with 2" of clean fluid in it, be sure the line is BELOW the surface of the fluid in the jar or can), place clean cloths around so if fluid leaks, you won't damge paint, brake fluid eats paint, fill with fluid then place a thumb firmly over the tap for the brake line & squeeze the lever, within a couple of strokes, you will feel the fluid pressing against your thumb, reconnect the brake line being careful not to spill any, refill the M/C at you fill the lines and caliper. In no time you will fill and bleed them. Use 2 jars or run both lines from both bleeders into one jar. As you fill the system the air will be pushed out the hose, through the jar full of fluid and what it sucks back in with be nice, clean fluid!!

jeff

 

SeaFoam, or any other "Pour-in-tank" Gee-ziss Juice is not going to dissolve anything in your Carbs sufficiently to restore Idle and Low-speed performance.

Stuff doesn't get sucked-up through those Jets and Passages.
If anything, ... it just clogs-up the works and makes for more work doing a Carb Cleaning.

. . . . . . . . .

Make sure that the Master Cylinder is able to achieve and sustain Hydraulic Pressure.
If the MC isn't a hundred percent, ... bleeding the system is going to be futile regardless if you use a Mighty-Vac or a Septic Tank Truck.

 

I know it won't dissolve everything Rick, I just want it to start ''gettin to work'' before I do, loosen it up. Pretreat. lol.

How exactly do I test the master cylinder? I've never had issues with bar mounted versions, even half dried out lines, getting it to pump up to pressure and bleed. This fancy antidive system is pretty crazy, and the master is a strange design.

 

been there done that on all the illegal unsafe riding... im not your father, so i wont treat you like my son ive always noticed that the carbs are the first thing to come off the bike... sounds like you have a decent starting point in your head..... after 7 hours of bleeding my front brakes (one caliper one rotor) to no avail, i did some research on here..... i first went out and bought a 3 dollar "speed bleeder" so i could eliminate back and forth motions..... that got most of my brakes to me, but not satisfied for safety. then came back here, and read... but not thinking didnt think of myself, that air rises..... DUH ERIC!!!!. LOL. so i came home, took off my tank, layed down some towels, and bled from the master cylinder banjo bolt. within one or two times noticed a HUGE difference, but being a worry worm, filled mc a few more times and did it like 15 times for self satisfaction. works great now! worth a try... but do remember, brake fluid eats paint, like bad!!! worth taking the 1 bolt out that holds the pretty tank on. just my 2 cents

 

My tank bolt isn't there anyway lol. Thanks a lot, exactly the kind of post I was hoping for. Thanks everyone else too. Going to see what I can find around town to do the job tomorrow. Probably try to take a whack at carbs and master tomorrow. Registration Monday if all is successful!

 

Tools like the Mighty-Vac, ColorTune and Carb Sticks got invented because what they do is: Save Time.
Innovative Tools got developed because somebody needed a solution to saving time doing some maintenance job. Do something faster.

If your Brakes won't bleed, ... the old-fashioned way ... by Pumping the Master Cylinder and letting the Air get forced-out by Brake Fluid PUMPED from the Master Cylinder, ... buying Speed Bleeders or a Mighty-Vac Pump isn't going to solve the problem.

All you should need to do is PUMP the AIR out of the System.
An absolutely FOOLPROOF method that has been employed by Master Mechanics for many years, is still recommended in many Service Manuals.

Run a clear hose from the Bleeder to a clear collection container.
Add Brake Fluid into the container. Enough to cover the end of the Hose.
Submerge the end of the Hose in that Brake Fluid.

Open the Bleeder ... Pull the Brake Lever ... Hold the Lever ... Close Bleeder.
Repeat.
Once Hydraulic Pressure develops.
Pump Brake Lever a few times. Hold. Open bleeder. Let Air escape.
Keep MC Reservoir filled.
Open bleeder. Pump Lever. Allow any bubbles to escape. Close bleeder.

IF <--- The Master Cylinder is functioning properly, ... it will PUMP the AIR out.
IF <--- The Cup or Seal leaks-by, or the Bore is excessively pitted; the MC won't Bleed right and Pressure won't develop.