Smoked TCI & Electrical issues

I am new to XJ bikes and did some stupid things
I need Help.

I inherited this 1992 XJ 650 maxim , was in storage for over 7 years.
Motor was locked up and a bot load of surface rust.

1. Used WD40 and PB Blaster equal Mix and after 2weeks, got the motor turning !
2. Tried starting and troubleshot replaced pick up and coils. Found 1 faulty coil and 1 Faulty Pickup unit.

3. Cleaned out carb.

3. Ordered new battery, meanwhile started bike with car battery (Mistake #1)

Bike started fine, lights came on there was instrument lights, neutral turn signal oil light (on before starting off after starting). Also brake light came on

I asked the guy at the local Yamaha dealership if it was ok to start the bike with the car battery. He said it was fine as long as I don't leave it on the battery.
Anyway, long story short, When I took of the cables, the instrument panels became very bright and the bike ran for about 10 seconds.

Afterwords, no sparks and TCi was faulty. Luckly I had a spare TCI.

Now I have the bike battery, I put in the spare TCI.

I was able to start the bike.

Problems:

1. No neutral light,
2 No Instrument light
3. Not sure if the battery is charging
4. No brake light
4. Oil light comes on
5. Turn light comes on (From the begining flasher only works on right side, left side stays on continuously)

6. Both the relays under the fuel tank works.

7. The flasher canceler is now smoking and swelling up so I disconnected it.


What seems to be the problem guys, I need all the help I can get.

 

You have an '82 ??

Sounds like when you dis-connected the battery while running (why??)
the voltage regulator had nothing to "read" and maxed-out at 19.5 AMPS, throwing unregulated voltage everywhere.

You'd have to find everything you fried, and buy used on E-Bay, or in the buy/sell forum here.

 

Um...this bears repeating...the VOLTAGE of the car battery will to NOTHING to harm your electrical system. As long as it is below 14.8 V (max regulated voltage). You should go and slap that dealership guy.

You DO NOT jump start off of a running car, because their alternators put out more current than the motorcycle battery can handle. But jumpstarting off of the car's battery alone doesn't hurt anything (although it could drain the car's battery if you do it long enough, and then nobody's going anywhere ;-) ). And both your battery, and the car battery can handle the REGULATED current output of the motorcycle alternator.

Time is right, you probably fried just about everything...you're going to need to check connectors and wiring as well (they can melt when the voltage is regulated but are corroded and create a high resistance). This might be a good time to pursue a minimalist wiring project.

 

I am trying to troubleshoot and have the following:

1. Diode/ Rectifier- I did a multimeter test between the red wire and the three white wires and again between the white wires and black wire. The diodes seem ok ? ( gives a reading of about 0.646 one way and open circut when leads are reversed)

2. I did a resistance test on the rotor and I am getting a reading of 6.1ohms between green and brown wire of the two point connector is this too high ? I heard someone mention between 3.6 and 4.4 ohms

3. Between the three white wires I get about 0.6ohms

4. Anyway, I ordered a diode rectifier off e-bay, I will put it in once I get it and see if it makes any difference.

"Time to Ride" I took off the battery cos the Yamaha guy told me not to leave it on while the bike is running plus I thought logically that car battery would be a big load for the bike to charge while it is running . I guess I did the opposite of what I should have done.
Also the car battery was not in a car. It was out of the car. since I didn't want to mess up my new bike battery, I thought I would use the old car battery till I sorted out the bike and got it running


So I can get the bike started now, ut no lights and no neutral light. Turn signal is ok on one side,
What circuit controls the "Neutral light" My fuses are all new and seems to be working.

What should I be testing nest. Also is is ok to start the bike and test the charging etc ?

Thanks to Time to Ride and ManBot13 for your inputs.

 

Use the wiring diagram for your bike here http://xjdiagrams.thundervalleypower.com/
You will have to go through the diagram for your bike to find the faults but be aware the Yamaha fuse boxes may look fine but the fuse holders fail with age.

Dont forget the obvious - has the neutral lamp blown?

 

check all of the bulbs. Unregulated voltage could have blown any that don't work.

Voltage drop testing will likely be your best friend for sorting out melted connections and wiring.

 

Markie Thanks for the Diagrams ! & ManBot13 I will be sure to check the bulbs!!...

I will look over it over the weekend an update as soon as Ican.

 

ManBot13 You were right!.... All the bulbs except the turn indicator and oil pressure lights were blown.

I replaced all of them.
Now, the meter lights are still not coming on.

I have not yet changed out the tail light/brake light

I did a multimeter read on the charging system and it was showing about 17 volts. after starting the bike for a few minutes the battery started to bubble over. I then switched to a spare diode/rectifier and the voltage dropped to about 15.9v. It is holding it even when I rev over 3500 rpm. Is this ok or too high ?

I tried looking at the circuit diagram but cannot figure out why meter lights are out. Are they controlled by the headlight relay ?

Also, it looks like one of the holders for he 10 A fuses gives me an open circuit.... guess I need to unwrap the insulation to see where it goes ?

Any other suggestions ?

 

WHOA! That voltage is WAY TOO HIGH. Your regulator should be regulating to 14.5 V +/- 0.3 V (I believe that is the spec). 14.8 V is the highest that the alternator should put out. You have a regulation issue, and more things will get damaged in a hurry! There was a post on here that linked to a charging system test diagram. I'll see if I can find it.

EDIT: Here's the chart www.electrosport.com/media/pdf/fault-fi ... iagram.pdf

Do you have an original fuse box? Might be time to just replace that with a blade type. You don't need to follow the wires to figure out what they go to, that's what the wiring diagram is for.

Meter lights are probably out for the same reason the other lights didn't work. The bulbs probably blew.

 

Oh, and when you test the charging system, the voltage output is dependent on rpm, it doesn't need to "warm" up or anything. Don't leave it running "for a few minutes" or you'll be in the market for a "new" TCI. Just start it, put the voltage tester on it and and rev to 2000-3000 rpm. That'll tell you all you need to know.

And if your battery is bubbling over, it might be toast. Make sure it has the right electrolight levels (add distilled water if it's low in any of the cells). Then put that battery on a trickle charger overnight. Take if off the charger and make sure it holds a charge (test the voltage every couple of minutes, it shouldn't drop). Or take it to get load tested at your local autoparts store.

And please wear goggles and gloves if you're battery is bubbling over. BE CAREFUL, you don't want to blow up a battery, and get acid all over you.

You've got a big task ahead of you. Again, you might want to consider a full minimalist re-wire, or get a wiring loom off ebay (that can be a crap shoot too, but what your working with might not be any better). The wiring on these bikes isn't "simple" and you are going to have to slug through alot of "gremlins" to get it road worthy.

Have a back-up plan (look for spare parts), proceed systematically (starting with the charging system and voltage regulation), and get REALLY familiar with the wiring diagram. If anything seems to not make sense, STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING, ask a question, and wait for answers. You don't want to damage any of your replacement parts and start back at square one.

 

Watch for spare TCI and voltage regulator. It doesn't hurt to have them on hand. Just look for one at a good price. And you can use a car battery to start and run your bike while you are working on it. I use my 1000 CCA marine battery when I am setting up my carbs on the bike. It doesn't take much to kill a bike battery!

 

ManBot13 Thanks a lot for the charging system test diagram. I will trouble shoot the Diode rectifier before I do anything else.

I have an updated blade type fuse holder.

The meter lights were also blown, I replaced them too but they are not coming back on. I looked at the wiring diagram I see two wires Black and blue.

The black wire seem to be shared between the meters and then runs through the distance sensor and side stand switch and seems to run through many other devices and is a ground wire.

The blue wire seems to be originating from the head light relay and that is why I am wondering if the headlight relay powers the meter lights also I think the headlamp fuse maybe the one with an open circuit thus it is not powering the relay. Is fuse #8 a 10 A fuse ?


What is a full minimalist re-wire ?

Oh ... my battery is new... I shall wear goggles... only a few drops of acid came out....

Starting Problems:
My heart goes cheese every time I start the bike hoping I wont blow anything... I think i will trouble shoot the diode before I do anything.

Right now, I am in Chicago it is getting really cold and the bike only starts when I have the choke on and spray starting fluid into the air intake, inevitably, the bike starts up and revs to about 4000 rpm on its own before slowing down. I can then reduce the choke in a bout a minute and then the bike runs close to idle. When it is idling the voltage is around 14.8v and when I rev it up it peaks out around 15.9v.

Thanks again for all the support I really appreciate it.



Ground Hugger... if you read the beginning all my problems started with a car battery.... .... I guess it was my fault I disconnected the battery after the bike started... I will keep your advice in mind.

 

You're using a term "diode regulator"..... be careful:

the diode block is a small black block with only about 4 or so wires going into it, and it is in the headlight bucket--it looks like a black square dead-end to a wire grouping.

the regulator is on the same panel as your tci module, on the left side of your bike under the side cover.

And yeah, if your voltage is going THAT high, your regulator is definitely shot.


dave f

 

My bike is a xj650 J What other complete wiring harness is compatible with this bike ?

 

Possible source for TCI - I think he has a site on EBAY...

http://www.erd.co.nz/products/xjfj.html

See also

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=27543.html

(contains a whole mess of electrical stuff and testing TCI's)

See also:

http://web.archive.org/web/200712140435 ... aqbig.html

 

Thanks much Adrian1... Appreciate the input.

 

15.9 Volts ...
You also smokes the Regulator.

Undo the Quick Connection plugging the Voltage Regulator into the Wire Harness.
Look at the RED Wire area.

Look for melting, signs of overheating and any Terminal Ends that may have got loose and pulled-away from the Connector saving you from a fire and a Wiring Harness Critical Mass.

 

Rickomatic,
The connector looks fine.
Here is a question,

I have a new battery and with the bike switched off i e before starting the battery reads about 14 .3 volts.... is this normal ?

It goes up by about 1volt to 15.5 and peaks at 15.9volts at about 3500 rpm

 

No. I believe there may be a fault with your meter. A lead acid battery should give 2.1 volts per cell - there are 6 cells - 12.6 volts when the engine isnt running.

If you are measuring 14.3 that is 1.7v over.

If you subtract 1.7 from 15.9 you get 14.2 - probably a sensible voltage when the alternator is at full output. As long as this is the maximum, I would think your charging system is healthy.

Trust me - I'm an electrician!!!

 

You need to have a reliable Meter.

Looks like markie's figures add-up.
Your Meter might be the problem.

If your Regulator is putting-out +14.2~14.5 Volts at 2,000 rpm's and above; you're OK.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/digita ... |0&sort=DD

 

Rick,
I think Markie is on the money on this one!!!... Someone told me I might have old batteries in my meter. I changed them out tried to test the voltage of a new spare 9v battery. It read 9.9v so my meter has to be re calibrated.

I will post the final result after testing it with a good meter... Thank you Markiee!!....

 

What kind of Meter do you have?

Most meters have some way to Self-calibrate the Meter to "Zero-out" the Scale so that it gets set correctly to provide accurate readings.

 

check your car battery and see what it reads

 

Hi Rick ,
It says" fluke 16" on it.

 

Finally.. it looks like some have I put the old battery in my multimeter. I changed it again and tested the bike battery....Wola!!! 12.4 when off and peaks at 14.4v ... Thank you Markie!! and a big thanks to all the others for helping me solve the issue.