1985 Maxim X - Valve Adjust (My 1st Attempt!!)

After enjoying my XJ700-X this past summer, I began experiencing more and more trouble when trying to start the bike as the weather has become cooler. I've checked the carbs, cleaned them (using spray), checked the spark plugs, changed the fuel filter, checked voltages on the battery (and put a battery tender on it), checked everything I could think of, read and re-read all the posts on "hard to start" and "won't start" topics, but can only report one change. Three weeks ago I was able to start it, took it for a ride, and it seemed to run good, but unfortunately it has not started since. I have purchased Iridium plugs, thinking that it might help (although the old plugs looked like new!), and alas - it still would not start. I decided to start with checking out the valve clearances, since everything I've read about carbs and synchronizing them say the valves need to be in spec first... Though I've never done a valve adjustment on a motor with shims, I thought I might just delve into it after calling the local Yamaha service department and asking how much they charge for doing it!! I was shocked at what they charge, so I thought I'd just check on things myself. I figured I would need to be sure the clearances are right before I assume anything else. So I began the task.

After measuring (or should I say, TRYING to measure) clearances on the intake side, I could only get ONE feeler gauge through on ONE valve! And that one was a .05mm gauge!! I turned the engine over again, thinking I did something wrong, but no, I still could NOT get any of the feeler gauges through. I measured the exhaust valves, and they were also out of spec - so I recorded them, and used HAP's Maxim-X Valve Shim Table, an excel worksheet. (Thanks, HAP, for that resource!!)

According to that table, I need the following "under the bucket" shims:
(1) 160, (3) 165, (4) 170, (1) 190, (3) 195, (2) 200, and (1) 205.

I'm hoping the shims that were recommended as replacements are correct. Many of the values I put into the table were 0.00, and I hope the change in shim size was calculated correctly. Has anyone used this resource? Do you know if it is accurate?

Does anyone know if there is any kind of "exchange" program or a place in the Salt Lake area where I could get these shims? Please let me know asap, if possible.

Thanks!

 

You are right to start with the valves and it's not that hard to do if you take it a step at time and follow the manual and excellent howto's on this site. The main caution is to be sure you turn the crank the right way when the bucket tool is installed.

But ... your numbers indicate valves a long way from spec, and very tight.

How many miles on the clock? Do you have any reliable service history for the bike? The valves tighten as the parts wear but these numbers would indicate a bike that has been neglected for a long time. Firstly, re-check the numbers, ie. are you using metric feelers?

Also, the table is a bit theoretical. What you are actually doing is decreasing the thickness of the shim to compensate for wear in the parts. For a bike under normal maintenance (valves checked and adjusted every 5000 miles or so) a couple of shims will need to go to the next size down, eg. from a 270 to a 265, so the changes should not be radical unless they are way out of spec.

Has any other major work been done? Valve re-grind, etc. will radically change the baseline for clearances. A compression test might be a good first step to make sure you don't have valves that are "riding" or slightly open which will radically reduce performance and eventually burn themselves out.

Good luck, keep at it, Cheers, Ian

 

I have used the table and it works fine.
BUT you need to have good measurements to start with (typical garbage in garbage out scenerio)
As you have found out, it is quite difficult to get accurate clearance measurements on those narrow cams combined with the contact angle and extremely thin feeler gauges.

It is quite easy to force a larger gauge under the cam and force the valve open (giving you an incorrect measurement)

I worked on a head where the clearances were also close to, or at zero.
It is time consuming but I took the three or four smallest shims and worked those around the valves to give me better measurements. Unfortunately, even my smallest shims were too thick to give me a decent measurement on some valves and I ended up buying four thinner shims to use just for measuring purposes knowing I would probably be able to use them. It's a tedious job and you need to take meticulous notes about what shim produced what clearances.
The GOOD NEWS is that it make a huge difference and you only need to do it every 25K miles or so.
The BAD news is that the damn little shims are about $10 each unless you can find someone to swap with you.

HAP does run a shim swap but you have to send in shims and he will send you smaller ones if he has them. I have a bunch of my own BUT most of mine are the original thickness (185-200 size) which won't be any help.
I am getting close to checking clearances on my current project and may have some other comments in a couple days after my memory is "refreshed".

Take your time. Dont rush and accept that the bike will be apart for a couple weeks until you can economically get them sorted out and shims delivered.

 

Thanks Ian and Mike!!

Great questions, too. Ian, the bike has 34,000 miles on it, and I don't have any kind of service history on it. By the looks of some of the shims - esp. on the #4 cylinder - it's been WAY too long: they look like they've taken quite a bit of heat. And yes, I've got metric feelers that are tapered. My smallest measurement is .05mm, and I really did try to work that through but was not able to. Bent the little thing, too. Hate that.

Anyway, I've checked my local shop - they want $14. per shim!! I would need 15 new shims, and that's a little chunk of money. Have shot off an email to HAP for a possible swap, but still have not heard back..

Will keep ya posted... Thanks again both of you!!

 

Did you check with XJ4Ever (chacal) for his prices on valve pads (shims?)

 

Bigfitz52 - I've tried to send a pm to Chacal, but unfortunately it wouldn't let me. I seem to get this message, both to him and to the "webmaster", and every time I've tried to send anything:

A error occured while processing this page.
Please report the following error to the owner of this website.



Line : 197
File : emailer.php
General Error
Failed sending email :: PHP :: Message could not be sent.
Mailer Error: Could not instantiate mail function.

Is there some trick to sending messages, or is it just me??

 

Something is up with the site-I think we may have been hacked. I have seen several error messages in the last few days, and I don't remember getting them before. Only when I tried to upload pictures that were to large or my avatar when it was too large, but those are not error messages just user errors.

KJIII you can email XJ4ever directly and bypass the PM on here. I think my shims were $8 if I remember correctly. I'd say you caught those valves just in time - that's really tight.

info@xj4ever.com

be sure and remove the spaces when you enter it into your email address.

 

Thanks so much for the tip, MercuryMan! I'll send him an email directly.

You're awesome!!

 

a word of caution when dealing with Chacal...he's a phenominal rip off artist

 

Excuse you??? You ARE joking, right? You forgot to put a smiley at the end of that sentence? If not, I strongly suggest you start detailing WTF your problem is, and do it swiftly, because I and the vast majority of the other users here are going to take issue with that statement.

 

Hey mcrwt644, why don't you explain yourself?

Because if you don't, I will, including copies of our correspondence relating to said "rip off", so that other people can judge for themselves.

P.S. I'm still waiting on that package of parts I bought from you, OR EVEN THE PROOF OF YOU EVER SHIPPING THEM, that makes me such a "rip-off artist" by having the gall and arrogance to request my money back for said missing parts.....

 

chacal, I've already explained it in correspondence.

He undercuts your price, even when it's a good one, then demandes 25% back when a package the usps loses...last time I do business with him.

I don't care what you think chacal, I've already informed personal friends about your business transactions and they have taken their business elsewhere.

I personally don't care if you take issue with it schmuck. Do your homework and look around at prices.

let's not forget his over verbose explanations when requesting something as simple as an oil filter. Really, if you don't know how to do an oil filter, know the number, maybe you should go to the stealership...I don't need a 1 page explanation with a modified oem part number on it to tell me what it is...kiss, keep it simple stupid

again, rip off

 

Lots more on this subject, Bob, if you're sure you want to continue down this path.



From: info@xj4ever.com [mailto:info@xj4ever.com]
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2011 3:38 AM
To: Bob
Subject: Re: Carb parts and TCI units

Hey Bob, checking back, what have you found? No parts on this end.......

Len
*********************************************************
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob
To: info@xj4ever.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 04, 2011 8:42 PM
Subject: Re: Carb parts and TCI units

odd, they went out usps priority. let me do some checking

**********************
From: "info@xj4ever.com" <info@xj4ever.com>
To: mcrwt644
Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2011 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: Carb parts and TCI units

Hey Bob...........just wanted to check on the intake manifolds and shims.....
have not got these ("the 2nd shipment") yet........


Thanks,
Len
*********************************************************
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob
To: info@xj4ever.com
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: Carb parts and TCI units

Len, sorry, been a busy week. Switched jobs today. I mailed off the parts I forgot. Go ahead with the $34 gift through pp for shipping. let me know when you get the stuff. Bob

*********************************************************
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob
To: info@xj4ever.com
Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: Carb parts and TCI units

hold off on the shipping payment. I left out the intake manifolds and the shims. I'll get them out tomorrow.

*********************************************************
From: "info@xj4ever.com" <info@xj4ever.com>
To: mcrwt644
Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2011 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: Carb parts and TCI units

Okay, $$ is on the way. Let me know the shipping fees.


Thanks,
Len
******************************

 

I have ordered from chacal several times with no problems at all. Service is fast and you get the right parts on the first try. I have been on this forum for quite some time and this is the first negative reply I have ever heard re Chacal. ME thinks you are barking up the wrong tree Bob...

 

I have gotten good service from Len whenever I order anything.

But, remember that this is his BUSINESS ..as in "for-profit" making a living so he can continue to do business and sell us more hard to find parts in the future.

His prices aren't always the best, but they are normally very competitive. If they seem out of line, shop around.
He does offer added value of supporting this site, quick shipping and very reliable. He also usually has everything you need to avoid multiple shipping costs.

Sounds like that deal didn't go well for anyone

 

We seem to have hijacked KatherineJaneIII's post-sorry KJIII.

Don't want to come off like a smart ass Bob, but "verbose" means "overly wordy", so "over verbose" means "over overly wordy."

Sure chacal fully explains things in his instructions, but that's good. Not everyone out there is a mechanical genius and it might be the first wrench they've turned. I for one appreciate the extra effort, whether I need it or not.

Good rule to go buy when buying: Don't buy the most expensive, don't buy the cheapest and buy from someone you can trust. End of Story.

KJIII don't hesitate to take back your post and ask any questions if you need to.

 

https://www.usps.com/ship/file-insurance-claims.htm

 

Now that you post that Polock it reminds me of something.

I have shipped with UPS, FedEx, USPS, and DHS. Only USPS has never lost anything of mine. UPS played hockey with a TV I once shipped, & FedEx lost a scale I shipped to Italy in German customs, and DHS sent my package to the wrong address twice. The Post Office (AKA USPS) has never done me wrong. Hmm..guess I'm lucky.

 

go for it, I don't own maxims anymore and am simply causing issues, hope that just one person doesn't use you

 

Yeah, I was gonna say, why are you even getting involved? Doesn't look to me like Len did anything at all out of sorts.

I use XJ4Ever for virtually everything on the bikes, and have never, ever, had an issue.

I think you'll find that a majority of current members share that experience.

 

I also take MAJOR issue with calling Len a rip off artist. He has had the best service I've ever come into contact with. I have dealt with him even when i ordered one part of a package, changed my mind and ordered the rest, (2 mixture screws alone initially then realized i needed all four and the washers and springs etc) and he actually discounted it all and made the entire process completely painless.

 

again, I don't GAS what you think

 

Then it's mutual. See ya.

 

You wanna see ripped off? Order your parts through bike bandit and pay $40 shipping (to canada) But ya ive never had any problems with Len. Good guy always makes sure the noobies get the parts they need. To Canada I cant say shipping is "quick" but still faster then the 2 months i waited for a PC to come across the border. I'll buy most of my parts through him just for the customer service.

 

Finally sat down and opened the valve cover to check the valve clearances.

After 47,000 Miles & never ever been done before I had the following:

Exhaust: .007" .004" .006" .003"

Intake: .005" .004" .004" .005"

I have ordered new shims today to bring them back into spec.
Chacal has them for $8.50 ea.

Question: The manual says to check every 5K, Could changing the oil every 2500 miles and always running 91 octane have allowed me to run so long 47K without the clearances being any worse?

 

Couldn't have hurt. More likely I'd say you've probably never run the engine above 6K or so, at least not with any regularity. Good thing you caught them when you did, #3 exhaust is flirting with disaster. Run a compression test after they're in spec.

 

Sorry to highjack again but this has to be said.

There is no way to convince me that you could
have had so bad an exprience with len unless a
very large part was as much due to you.

The amount of work to put xj4ever to gether should
be proof enough that Len puts heart and soul into not only
his business but to the members of this site.

I've asked his advice as much as the sites gurus and he has
ALWAYS been there.

His prices faall in the middle or below for the most part but I KNOW
the parts will; be right, great quality, get here in nothing flat-
and I'ved ordered on weekends with a holliday the next mon
and still have my parts on thurs!

Oh hell I could go on and on-you get the point.

Len is not a rip off and to say so is just plain outside the pale.

My 2 cents.

Ron