not turning over

Hey guys, I just got a new to me '81 650 maxim. i'm also new to the forum.

Anyway, i got a brand new battery for it, and put it in.
When i go to start the bike, the starter clicks, but won't turn the engine over.


After i let go of the button, i hear the starter spinning. I went and pulled the starter out and it spins when i hit the button.

When i put it back in, it wont turn the engine over, and just clicks...what could be wrong?
I'm thinking maybe the brushes are worn, and it does not have the power to turn the engine...but would like to hear your guy's thoughts.

So any help will be greatly appreciated.
Thank you.

EDIT: the bike has been sitting for 8 years under a tree. i got it for free from a friend. if that helps...

 

Hopefully the engine isnt locked up.

Ive read that its a good idea to take the spark plugs out, pour some oil in the combustion chamber and let it sit, then slowly turn the engine by hand. To ensure its not locked up, and to ensure that when you do crank it its not going to lock up from being exposed to the elements, and no oil flow.

If its still clicking once you get the engine free, worn starter brushes are a good possibility.

You could give it some light taps with a hammer to get a few more starting cranks out of it. Atleast to make sure the engine turns, then youd want to take it back out and fix it the right way, and if you can, do a compression test if the starters strong enough.
If its been sitting THAT long, it wont actually start, its gunna need work.

Youre gunna have alot of work ahead of ya on this bike. Its worth it though.


oh yeah, hello and welcome!

 

Ok thanks for the reply.

Oh forgot to mention the bike has 13,929 miles. so not A LOT. that is could be dead/shot.

I thought about the engine being locked up.
So i tested it.

I put the bike in 5th gear, pulled the clutch lever, disengaged the clutch, and started jogging with the bike...then let go of the clutch lever, while in gear, and the rear wheel turned, then slowed down and eventually stopped...so its not seized/ locked up.


Wait so, you said you can turn the engine over by hand? how do you mean?

I know it won't start, but i just want it to turn over, if it does, then i'll tear it down, carbs, clean everything....


Thanks again!

 

The pick up coil cover, on the sifter side of the engine. You can pop it off and turn the engine with a 3/4 open end wrench. Ill post a picture of the cover here in a second.


Its the circular cap with the yamaha yics logo on it (bottom left). Four screws, they can be a bitch, and youll see a weird square nut looking thing. COUNTERCLOCKWISE *oops* is the normal direction. Watch it when your turning it, dont break anything off thats sticking out down there when youre turning the wrench.

 

ok, which way do i turn it?

 

ok, thank you. I'll try it, if it turns all right, then its the starter.
Could it be the starter clutch?

 

COUNTERCLOCKWISE!

lol.... sorry.

If youve got a new battery in there, and the engine spins freely (make sure to take the spark plugs out) the its most like the brushes, maybe a bad connection. Ive been told that if its the clutch youll hear more of a grinding noise.

 

19mm works as well. once the cover is off and you know the motor is in neutral place the wrench on the square nut

maybe on the other side of the bike. but if you are regarding the way to turn the motor by hand with wrench, NO!!

its counterclockwise. your crankshaft is turning in the same direction as your tire wheels

 

ok, ill try it tomorrow morning. going to bed now. im thinking its all in the starter....but ill see tomorrow.
Thanks a lot guys.

 

It really doesn't matter which way you turn the crankshaft. It's all up and down at the pistons, the alternator doesn't care, the starter isn't attached, and the oil pump isn't going to mind.

You have to move it both ways to use the valve shim tool anyway.

 

A word of caution!
When turning the motor with the spark plugs removed you run the risk of damaging the TCI. Make sure the TCI is unpluged or the spark plugs are grounded.

Ghost

 

So I tried removing the cover this morning, no luck, those bolts are on there really good, and the bolt head is soft metal, they were going to strip if i tried any further.

But i pulled the starter out completely, and it doesn't sound right when its spinning...I'm leaning more towards the starter being the cause of all this.

I have a friend that fixes car starters for a living, so i'll bring it over to him to see whats up with it.

Last question, could the TCI get damaged when im pushing the bike in gear down the street, the rear wheel was turning, so the motor was not locked up....the spark plugs were still in the engine...

Thanks in advance

 

Update, i tried taking the plugs out, and one of them was REALLY screwed in there, and the it being so old, the plug snapped in half....great....now i gotta take the engine apart.

 

Know what you mean. Impact drivers come in real handy. I've even gone so far as to clamp a set of vise grips on the outside of the bolt head and break it loose that way.

 

I had to do that the other day to split my carb rack. Everyone of those bastards were completely stripped. Vice grips actually worked pretty good.

Your right about the impact driver. That thing has saved me a lot of time on cars, and now bikes. Screws, torx, or Allen heads. Works em like a charm

 

How bad did it break? You sure anything fell out of the other side?

You gotta get that sucker out one way or another, pull it and look. don't give up yet!

Pb blaster, or kroil (fitz speaks highly of kroil) does wonders

 

Ok. i gotta take the engine apart now, this impact driver idea will be good.
Thanks.

 

If you broke a Spark Plug, ... don't despair.

Get a 1/2-Inch Drive Spark Plug Socket.
(A 6-Point, Deep Socket)
6-Inch 1/2-Inch Drive Extension
Pry-Bar; 1/2-Inch Drive.
A Hard-wood, Replacement Hammer Handle for a 20-Oz. Framing Hammer.

Remove the tank for safety.
Get the Socket on the Plug.
Put the Extension in the Socket.
Hook-up the Pry Bar so that you have a CLEAN shot at striking it with the Hammer Handle.

Get everything all lined-up for your turn at-bat.
Apply a generous amount of undo torque to the arrangement of Tools.
Hold the torque steady.
SMACK the end of the Pry-Bar with the Hammer Handle.

(( NO Downward Impact -- ONLY the Vector to Undo the Plug. ))

One good whack usually does the trick.
A second whack might be needed.

 

Umm, I think I've been misunderstood, ill post a pic of what happend. It broke flush with the engine case...the only way I see is to unscrew it from the inside of the engine...

 

Usually when someone refers to breaking a spark plug when wrenching it, theyre referring to the ceramic insulation, lol.

If its stuck enough to break like that, how are you gunna get it out from the other side?

Some penetrating lube and an ez out are probably your best bet. You dont even have to drill it out first, however you might be fishing some crap out of the jug, depends on how bad it broke.

 

My new XJ4ever's Impact driver with a very minor amount of persuasion was able to get all 4 of my stripped and mangled bowl drain screws removed. The 4th screw basically was flattened, no screwdriver would get any bite, but the bigger phillips bit was able to bite enough to get it out.

I have a whole new respect for impact drivers.

 

here is what i mean

 

Eeek.

I'm thinking no matter how you get that out you're gunna have to clean shards out of the jug. Unless if someone knows of a way to get the insulation out without it falling into the engine, you might have to pull the head to clean it out but I wouldn't suggest trying to remove the spark plug from the inside. You'll just break the arm off the plug and possibly nick something up when it does snap (if you're going to do it the way I think)

 

here is how the bike sits atm.

 

Ill figure it out. Don't have the time now, going on vacation for a week.

 

Leave it soaking in Kroil while you're gone: http://www.kanolabs.com/google/

When you get ready to mess with it, remove the one exhaust pipe and turn the motor over by hand until you see the exhaust valve open. Attach your shop-vac to the exhaust port in place of the pipe. Hopefully anything that falls into the cylinder will be sucked out the port. Otherwise you will be pulling the head.

 

thanks! ill try that.

 

You might as well just pull that Head and save a whole lot of fooling around.

Since what you are looking at is a real horror-story that will likely require you to yank the Head; don't fool-around with Potions and mining ceramics.

Take the Head right off.
Look beyond the seized Plug and see what else needs to get done.

You might get-away with just having that fragment removed from the Spark Plug Hole.
You might see some other conditions present that will require refurbishing the Head.

You might even find evidence that would suggest looking for a used Head might be a cost-effective option for saving you a lot of time and money.

 

Yea, im going to pull the head first, if I cant get the plug out, ill try that kroil.
theres something else wrong in there. one of the spark plugs was dry, one was wet. Something is not right. Ill keep you guys updated.

 

Where did you hear this?

With the ignition off, the TCI is not going to anything when you turn the engine manually. There is no danger at that point.

With the ignition on, I still would expect the TCI not to do anything more than maybe max dwell the coils, if it happened to pick up a reasonable pulse from the reluctor.

I could be wrong, it's certainly happened before, but this sounds extremely doubtful to me.

 

If you, or a friend of yours, has a welder, you might be able to weld a nut to the exposed bit of steel of the plug. I would try it with a nut big enough that I could MIG weld to the inside of the nut, so not to hit the head with the wire. The heat of welding might also loosen it up. After cooling, it could then (maybe) be removed with a socket on the nut.

Nice thing is that the steel weld wire won't stick to the aluminum head... though careless welding there could damage the plug seat.

 

good idea, I got a new MIG welder couple weeks ago

After i get back from the beach, i'll get to it.

Thank you everyone for your tips.

 

One of the factory books (I forget which one) tells you to unplug the TCI when doing a compression test; I just checked my 550 book and it has a big bold "CAUTION" about being sure to ground the empty plug wires instead.

That would be because the ignition is on when cranking using the starter; it's easier to unplug the TCI than it is to ground all 4 plug wires effectively.

Turning the motor over by hand with the ignition off would of course have no effect on it.

 

Thought I'd post in here for starters, rather than create a new thread.

Another problem with my 1997 XJ900 Diversion.

I was at the BP servo the other evening, gassed up, went to leave but the starter motor was acting as if the battery was flat, struggling to turn the motor over.

Got home ok but now she won't turn over at all (but can be crash/push started).

I can hear the solenoid clicking but that's all.

Any ideas gents?

 

It Sounds like either the battery is dead or low or the soleniod is trash, Did you try shorting it out by using a screwdriver across it? Be ready for two things, first is the spark it will create, and the second is the starter should spin.

 

Yeah, its an almost brand new battery and it appears to have plenty of power left, I haven't tried the "short out" method as yet.