ZERO COST "MEND" for steering notch

I've had this notch, or detent, or "catch" in the steering of my Seca 900 since I got it 4 years ago. It has only gotten worse over the last 11,000 miles. It's to the point that a friend who I let ride the bike bought me a tapered roller set for Christmas!

Well, that takes pulling the whole front end apart, and I really need to do fork seals, brakes, lines ETC while apart.

So - while changing the oil, I decided to try an idea I had.
With the bike on Mainstand, (PROCESS DELETED as it may be unsafe) Another round of 7 cycles and I had 4 distinct, yet tiny notches even further off-center.

Not believing my luck, I grabbed a helmet and rode it. I felt NO notchiness at all!

 

Re: ZERO COST FIX for steering notch

OH, COME ON NOW. :roll:

All you did was diagnose the fact that your steering head bearings are starting to break up or some of the balls were STUCK and you managed to get them unstuck and move them off their flat spots.

That's not a "fix" it's a diagnosis. Of an issue you already knew exists.

Install the new bearings.

 

Re: ZERO COST FIX for steering notch

+1

 

Re: ZERO COST FIX for steering notch

Yup, replace your bearings. Now.

Dave F

 

Tough crowd - -tough crowd

I have to get another bike together before pulling this one apart and fixing it properly. New brakes, stainless lines, tire, rebuild forks, maybe wheel bearings too.

"Mitigate symptoms completely" doesn't sound right in a thread title.
I've turned this into a poll to see if others are having the same problem.
(replaced "fix" with "mend")

 

I'm not even answering this poll. If you have notchy steering fix it, it's as bad as dodgy brakes.

 

Neck bearings are one of the easiest things to do, you don't have to disconnect the brakes to do it. I left my front end all together just dropped it down and swip swap.

My neck bearings were terrible, tapered rollers are the only way to go.

 

LOL...and you guys bust MY balls for riding sketchy 2 strokes?

I'm laughing so hard as I type.....talk about a "jrig"......30 bucks and 2 hours will separate the notches so you won't even feel them!!

I can just see poor Fitz nearly falling off his chair as he read your "fix"..LOL

Yeah, you got more courage than I do......I wouldn't have even posted that one.....



jeff

 

i think the question Time should be asking is why did this "fix" the notch, it shouldn't have done anything. are the races spinning in the neck?

 

Taper-roller bearings... get it sorted. No excuses at all.

 

He's got balls & they are all square.

 

YES HE DOES AND YES THEY ARE.

Or "flatted" anyway. That was my point to begin with about this being a diagnosis not a fix. Where I come from fix=mend.

REPLACE=fixed for good.

 

First - didn't the 31A bike (1983 Seca 900) come with tapered rollers from factory?? Meaning I shouldn't even have this problem.

I think the top race had 2 flattened bearings, and the bottom had another 2. These are now moved away from the centerline-of-load (making up terms again) and that there is no possible way the "ruined" bearings can further decay if they are not under load. (I don't drag pegs)

I cannot believe that anyone would think that this would create an unsafe condition, meaning less safe than just days ago. I love you guys - - lighten up.

 

why would turning the bars lock to lock put the rollers in another position, unless they were sliding and not rolling, so at least they need some grease.
it's just a little more work to put new ones in than it is to grease the old ones. what are you saving the new ones for?

 

The HAYNES Manual has instructions on how to do the Headset Bearings with ONLY needing to disconnect the Speedo and Clutch Switch.

When removing the Steering Stem from the Head on the Frame, ...
Remove the Top-end Spacer, Washer and Upper Race.
Collect the Balls.
A Strong Magnet makes quick work of it.

Position the Magnet to Collect the Lower Ball Bearings as the Stem is lowered.
The Magnet will keep the Balls from scattering all-over.

Pack the New Bearings with Synthetic Waterproof Grease and never look back at that job again.

 

I had a similar "notch" in a bike I used to own. It is nothing more than worn out bearing that is barely getting past seizing. I too thought no big deal until the day that "notch" turned into locked steering in the middle of a curve on a dirt road. Luckily I had slowed down from paved road to enter the dirt road because of the amount of gravel at the intersection and was barely faster than a crawl. The head locked up, and the bike was pointed at a grassy pasture. I was able to bail and no major damage to the bike. Had this happened 2 miles earlier when I was sparking pegs thru dead mans curve, I would not be posting this reply.

PLEASE!!! for your own safety, replace the bearings.

 

Well, if I;m getting my hands dirty, I might as well do both bikes.
Excuse me while I go make a mess. . .

 

Naw, I don't think anyone was thinking that doing your "fix" made it any worse or unsafe then it was before.....just that it probably caught everyone else, the same it caught me....from WAY out in left field<LOL>...again, we're friends so I'm laughing at all this.

It's just that I never would have expected that someone would have posted that....but I'm like you for some reason, I hate replacing head bearings......Ill spend 10 straight hours porting a single cylinder no problem.....but the tapered bearings have been on the shelf for a year. It's not that I'm riding the bike but I'm putting off the head brgs till the end of this build.

jeff

 

It's nice to have Tools that make the job a bit easier.

Hammer: Combo Rubber / Plastic Head
9-Inch Lineup Tool
Brass Drift
Locking Ring Spanner w/ 3/8" Fitting for Torquing*

(Old Schooler's don't torque the Bearings. Bearings are tightened until they Bind, ... Exercised, ... then, ... Backed-off until they don't.)

 

Dead man's curve, Mook, that is so melodramatic.

 

My lower 900 head bearing outer was tricky to remove. The top outer came out easy because there's a decent groove to get a drift behind but I had to enlarge the notch on the lower one with a die grinder.

Seems it came out of the factory with an inadequately machined notch in there because the angle was incorrect and even a small diameter drift wouldn't work.

 

Thanks for the tips, but too late - - I'm a commercial lawn service guy - I cut the bearing shell and split it. (I win).

Pics later.

Now off to the hospital to visit a friend who just became a paraplegic. Value every day of life !!

 

Wasn't trying to be melodramatic. That is just what it was called when I was growing up (which I suppose I could have elaborated upon). It is on a hilly road, hwy 49 in Clay County Alabama leading to Cheaha Mnt. Google it if you like, it is a very popular motorcycle route in the area. It is a short/sharp curve approximately 90 degrees. This sharp of a curve properly cut isn't so bad, but this one was cut with a reverse bank, and not the typically inward (upward) banking. It was a real hoot when I was a kid to see how fast you could take it, and stay out of the kudzo behind the barbed wire fence. If you are in the area (not you Wiz, XJ's don't float ) and really want some fun twisty roads, follow 49 north to hwy 281. Take it across the top of Mnt Cheaha and follow it till it ends in Talladega County.

Anyway.......my point was not the name of the road, but the unnecessary risk of riding with failing bearings. Good to see TIMEtoRIDE is replacing them.

 

Hope he didn't become a paraplegic due to HIS steering bearings seizing up.

Guess you didn't get to be an xjwizard by knowing about steering stem bearings.

Factory bearings in these are the ball bearing type. Tapered roller bearings are the best replacement/upgrade and you'll never have to do them again.

Some other bikes did have tapered bearings from the factory.....the 85/86 xj700/750/maxim-x, the 84-and up viragos, many others. But, the 900rk didn't.

The others aren't really trying to be melodramatic.....they're presenting the REALITY of the situation. In most cases, the bearings/steering will just continue to have the notchiness, and if the 'notch' is just a hair off-center it can cause weave, shake, etc..... and eventually lead to tank-slapping, and a quick launch over the handlebars, or the opposite extreme in which the steering locks up--as previously described.

Dave F

 

Removing Lower Race's not having Notched Tool Purchase relief.

Chuck a HARDENED 14mm Bolt in an Electric Drill and take it to a Bench Grinder.
Grind the Hex Head ... Round. Removing the Flats and making the Bolt Head "Round"
Shape the New Round Head, ... slightly "Conical"
Slightly.
Leave more Material at the Threaded end.

Using the appropriate attachment, ...
Mount the Bolt at the end of a 5-Pound Sliding Hammer.
Catch the Edge of the Lower Race with the Underside of the Bolt Head.

Apply Outboard Pushing Torque.
Slide the Weight a SHORT Stroke and Apply Downward Impact.

 

My bike HAD a tapered roller set, since purchased 4 years ago, with a notch. Upon a brief inspection, I couldn't find any serious defect. The lower-inner race has vertical lines that just catch your fingernail. The rollers show no flaw. I used the "dig a hole" method for clearance.


- -

 

That's the first time I've ever seen the whole nose off without dangling the Brakes or Pulling the Front Wheel.

Very clever.

 

Thanks Rick, I disconnected the throttle and choke, the ignition, and very little else. I wrapped the instruments in the red shirt, and had a sweatshirt over the front fender during the work.

Drifting the lower race from the neck - Take a Chevy 350 pushrod, grind the tip square, grind one side flat a bit, fit in the notch provided, tap 2 solid hits per side, then switch sides.

Drifting the upper race, that has no notches, find that piece of 3/4 mild steel square tube and pound with the same "2 tap" technique. Anyone who's never drifted a race before needs to know that hitting more than 2-3 times only "locks" the bearing more firmly in place.

The lower/outer race had a worn pattern in it's surface, the upper/outer looked really good. It's together, but it got dark before I could do the final assembly. Might as well do plugs, sync, ColorTune while the tank is off.

 

Rick,

That' how I've done my bearings, too. Saves a whole lot of time.

Time, wow, you had those kind go bad? Unusual. But, they are made for a reason......to replace bad bearings, so just like on a car--they can go bad. Someone's been in there before, I guess. Surprises are always fun.

Dave F

 

"I couldn't find any serious defect."
thats about as bad as a bearing can get and still be called a bearing. imagine if that was a wheel bearing, it would have melted long ago.

 

That race was sliced with a grinder to hasten removal Polock :roll:

I sliced it further open to use as an installation collar to beat against while seating the lower/inner bearing.
These bearings were all marked "Made in Japan" for the curious.

 

i got that,
the surface finish on that bearing was measured in millionths of a meter when it was made, most people can feel 1 thousandth of a inch to catch your nail it's about 3 to 5 thousandths.
that looks like what happens when somebody uses the inner race to drive the outer race in.............. with a big hammer
use the old race to tap the new one in

 

One must be careful when installing the bearings in a steering head, believe it or not the notched nuts can exert many tons of pressure on the races causing them to be dented, even as hard as they are. BMW uses tapered roller bearings every where on their machines, including the steering head and mechanics are warned of this in the BMW shop manual.

 

Here's the main culprit - - the lower/outer race was dimpled as well as the lower/inner
I rolled the rollers across glass, expecting to at least hear flat spots. They must be harder than the races.

Bike is back together now and steers perfectly.