Noobie Question - Solenoid/Starter Seca 550

First of all, I just want to say, I'm not a huge grease-monkey and don't have a huge amount of experience working on bikes. I'm 22 and have had this bike for a few years. I really love it but don't have a whole lot of money to put into it. Anyway...

I had let my 550 sit for a month or so and decided I needed to start it up and check some things.

First start, it started as normal, took about 10 seconds for the engine to turn over, but it got there (is this a normal amount of time? Its always taken around that long for the engine to turn over).

I let it warm up, checked the oil, then left it again. Today (the next day) I tried starting it again, and the starter seemed to be having a hard time. It was turning but a lot more slowly than usual and made a kinda weird sound like grinding and rubber on rubber. This really alarmed me, but it started after about 3 seconds (which also surprised me). I drove it to the gas station to fill it up and when I started it there, same sort of thing but this time it took a little longer. When I got home, I tried starting it 3 more times until finally it wouldn't anymore.

The solenoid is clicking quite a bit and I think that's probably the problem. I've actually just ordered a new one. I'm hoping that that's the problem and that the starter is just not getting enough voltage to it or something. I'm not sure exactly how the solenoid works though.

I guess I'm just asking for other takes on the situation. Thanks in advance!

 

Okay, so I just read
http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic ... vious.html

and tried bypassing the solenoid, but no dice, same problem.

On contact the starter doesn't make a lot of noise but I can hear something trying to turn. It will periodically turn faster (and sound more normal) but that lasts less than a second. It kind of sounds like something is stripped within the starter maybe.. I'm not too sure.

 

what's the voltage on your battery?

 

Oh and the battery is new and fully charged.

 

12v

Everstart 12A-A

 

There are a few possibilities here, and you're guessing not diagnosing.

First off, bad battery; new or not, it can happen. Your symptoms are classic "dead battery" so maybe it's not as fully charged as you think, or has a problem. Take your fully charged battery to the auto parts store and have it tested.

When you jumpered across the big terminals on the solenoid and got the same results, you ruled out the solenoid (that test bypasses it) so a new solenoid ain't the fix.

I strongly suspect that your bike is not re-charging the battery properly.

There are some other things we'll need to talk about; but for that we need to know how many miles are on this bike.

Also, what oil is in it?

Oh, and going forward: "turning over" means that the motor will spin when you mash the button; if it turns over but won't start, we refer to that as "turns over, but won't start."

In your case it sounds like "not starting" BECAME "not turning over."

 

I'm not a complete idiot, I realize shorting the solenoid rules it out, that's why I posted it.

It went from starting -> not starting -> barely turning over if at all.

I just realized my front light isn't turning on either, so I'm thinking its a problem with the battery. I just put that one in about 4 months ago...

I'm going to try charging it over night but most likely I'll have to buy a new one.

Thanks for the help

 

I didn't think you were an idiot; you classified yourself as a "noobie." You said you ordered a new solenoid and hoped that was it. It's not.

Your headlight (and instrument lights) aren't supposed to turn on until the motor is running. Once the bike starts, they should come on and stay on, even if the motor stalls, until you turn the key off.

HOW MANY MILES ON THE BIKE? It may need alternator brushes; and will continue to "eat" batteries until fixed.

I'm not talking through my hat here; look at my sig and in my gallery. I'm a big fan of 550 Secas, and I'd like to help you fix yours. Just replacing the battery is only going to help until it murders the new one, if something else needs attending to.

 

Didn't mean to sound irritated, hah sorry.

I can't believe I've never noticed that the light doesn't come on until after the motor is running. I feel stupid

quite a few miles: 64.4k miles

It was well taken care of by its previous owner. He had a log of service done to it starting in '87 all the way to '08. Carbs were rebuilt in '89.

I took it in to get it looked over/checked out/tuned up. The guy specialized in older yamahas. He said he cleaned the alternator brushes but I don't think he replaced them. I'd have to look up what else he did, if I can find the paperwork.

I'm willing to take pictures/video if need be.

 

http://youtu.be/x1h4QVr16Zo

A vid I made, not the best, but better than nothing.

 

Sounds like a "soft" battery from what I can tell.

Understand something about these bikes: Even with a nearly fully charged battery, it's possible to spin the motor quite vigorously but not have enough "juice" left to fire the ignition. This behavior is unlike any automobile engine or anything else with an electric starter I've ever dealt with.

You're not even spinning the motor over quickly though. Start with the battery.

Also-- if you still have the original alternator brushes, at that mileage they're due to be replaced, believe me.

None more thing, and this is VERY IMPORTANT: from your post is seems as though the bike may have sat from '08 until just recently. If that is indeed the case, you absolutely need to check the rear brake shoes for delamination: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=15874.html I doubt the guy who "checked it out" for you actually pulled the rear wheel to look at the brake shoes; you need to. You can't tell except by looking, and even if the PO replaced the shoes, if he used Yamaha shoes you'd BETTER check.

 

Just from my own starter problem a few months back. (82 750 Maxim) And not to say any of the others are wrong, but mine would not spin and it started out with trying to spin over really slow and would act like it stuck. I thought solenoid!. So I first recharged my battery, jump across the relay, ( I think that is what it was called). I would hear this click. Did some online research here and in my Haynes Manual and found the post on the starter was loose. Removed the starter and found the post had actually broken off inside. May not apply in your case, but sometimes a bad connection or corrosion can be a culprit that is hard to find. Good Luck.

 

So I took the starter out (probably wasn't necessary, but I wanted to take a few things apart and clean out some gunk around the chain) and I tested it with jumpers to the battery. It seemed to work, didn't sound anything like how it did in the previous video.

I then hooked it up via the original cable and grounded it, then tested it again outside of its socket. It worked the same.

Oh and the battery was fully charged overnight. I also tested it on another bike's battery and it worked the same.

One thing I noted, there was a little smoke coming out of the starter where the gear is. I wouldn't think this is normal.

Thanks for the heads up, I'm pretty sure from what the previous owner told me when I bought it in '09 that it was driven regularly, but I did leave it for about a year in a garage while I was away at college. I'll check out the brake shoes before I ride it next, if I ever get it started again.

 

Sorry if I don't know my stuff, but what are you referring to when you talk about the post on the starter?

 

On your starter there is a wire that hooks onto the starter. It is held on by a couple of nuts to a post on the top of the starter. If you remove the cable from the starter it will leave a threaded post exposed. That little sucker was broke inside where it hooked up to the internal plate and brushes. Not sure of the technical names for all of it. But I took the start off the bike, tried to get it to spin with jumper cables and notice the post was wobbling. $80.00 for a used one. Wasn't brave enough to try a rebuild on my own, but may wish I had later.

 

There have been several in this forum (including me) who have discovered that the internal shaft seal had gone bad in their starter motor. This leads to lovely engine oil going where it's not supposed to, into the starter. It rendered mine virtually useless, and drew so much from the battery during cranking that there wasn't enough left to sufficiently power the ignition system. Looks a lot like a charging issue, but not quite.

Oh, mine had less than half the mileage yours does. It may require a peek inside your starter. If you're a victim also, search the forum for the "oil in starter" threads.

 

Yeah, I opened it up and it has tons of oil/crud in it and a contact for one of the brushes (?) popped off.

I have a bunch of pictures but I'm downstairs right now. I'll post em when I go upstairs again. I'm buying a new starter right now.