Stopping power - front brake

Hi everyone.

I've got an '82 XJ650 Maxim that I bought this past August. I've put about 5000 miles on it so far and it's been working quite well and I really like the bike.

Well, this past weekend my friend bought a new Suzuki SV650S. Since she's new to motorcycling, I drove it back from the dealership for her. Now, not exactly my style of bike, but I was amazed at the handling. Now I shouldn't expect a 25 year old bike to have handling and performance comprable to one just out of the factory today, but one thing I really thought after getting back on mine was that I need better brakes.

What options would you guys reccomend for better stopping power? My bike has a single front disc. The pads and rotor seem fine, though I'm no expert on these things. Of course, all these things are the original equipment that came on the bike. Would replacing pads rotors with new ones help? How about the brake lines, would replacing that help? Does the master cylinder wear out over time? How much work is it to replace these things, and where is a good place to get new parts? I'd like to stay away from e-bay and just order stuff online if possible.

Other than that the bike seems to be running well. I play on taking it cross-country in May, and I'm going to try to order parts and check everything out at the end of this month, get everything running in great shape the first week or so in May, and then head west. Any other items you'd reccomend checking / replacing? I have new oil / filters / fuses, and the tires are new from last august.

Thanks for any help or advice you might have!

 

Interesting observations.

The SVs are known to be particularly well handling bikes so I don't think a comparison to a 25 year old XJ is fair as you yourself state. Technology has come a long way.

One thing to consider is that your Maxim is a bit more 'cruiser' oriented than the SV so you would expect it to handle differently.

There were several design flaws (maybe too strong of a term) in the XJs as well. In particular, the forks can be a little wobbly. Particularly under braking. A fork brace helps this tremendously.

As for braking, there are some interesting points here too. I'm surprised to hear that your Maxim has only one front disk. I'm more of a Seca guy myself and I assumed that all of the XJs have dual disks (as Secas do).

I've read a number of things about improving XJ braking.

Some guys have their disks drilled. I've never understood how that helps, but it looks like all modern bikes have drilled disks so I guess there's something to it.

Better cables are said to make a big difference in XJ braking. It's not an inexpensive upgrade, but it's one I've considered myself. I think the cables guys upgrade to are 'braided' so that they don't expand and contract as the standard cables can.

If your pads and disk don't appear to be worn, they probably aren't. You can get better pads, though I have no idea how much better they are.

I doubt your master cylinder is having a problem, but it's possible. They can be rebuilt fairly easily and parts are available.

I would think that the first step to take would be to give the brakes a good bleeding. That would tell you if you had any air in the system or if the master cylinder isn't producing enough pressure.

One final thing. The SV, being a much more modern bike probably weighs a hundred pounds less than the Maxim. Given that it has twin disks (probably with dual piston calipers) and is stopping so much less weight. I doubt that it would be possible to get an XJs brakes to ever work as well.

Hope some of that makes sense.

Greg

 

Is there an aftermarket fork brace available or does everyone fabricate their own?

 

Geebake - thanks for the response.

Yeah, I don't think I can get an XJ to have the kind of braking a new SV650 has. But it made me realize that brakes on a bike could be much, much more powerful than the ones I have. Right now it's fine for normal riding, but if I try to really slam the brakes, it doesn't inspire much confidence. I just worry about if I should ever have to panic-stop.

I haven't heard of a "fork brace", I'm not sure I know what you mean about the steering being wobbly. My XJ seems quite stable even at high speeds.

Maybe I can find a Seca brake system and put it on my Maxim...

 

If you seriously want better brakes, find a front end from another XJ version with dual discs and bolt it on. That, along with better brake lines, softer pads, and persistent bleeding will get the most that you can with our bikes. It will be a lot better than what you've got now, but not as good as a newer bike.

Comparing XJ brakes to a current bike just shows how much bikes have improved over the last 25 years.

 

I'm curious as to what type of riding you do Igarashi? If you are just shooting back and forth from work, a fresh set of brake lines and a bleed may be all you need to get the preformance you need. Another consideration is how much you weigh. If your heavier, greater braking power is indicated. I'm 175lbs. and my stock one caliper,single piston, solid disk works just fine. My opinion is that you need to "weigh" it out and decide what you are looking for. If your hanging the pegs, the following is a bolt-on option.
I did get a wild hair up the wazzoo one day and went crazy on an over-kill up-grade. I used the whole front end off of a XJ 650 LH. Dual disk brakes, and adjustable air suspension (though this is not what I needed it for). I scored the whole thing off of a fellow on flea-bay including the front and rear rim as well as the front fender for just under $300 USD. It was in great shape but I threw the money at rebuild kits for the master cylinder, both calipers (including pistons), stainless steel braided teflon brake lines, new EBC Green pads, and new fork seals. I'm still in under $400 and the results will be astounding I'm sure (still haven't fitted it to the Maxim yet, I moved and packed it all away).
A fork brace is nice but availability is a bit of a problem given our beasties age. I believe I've found one site that hints at having the correct brace for our XJ's, here is their address http://www.spec2.com/clips.html .
Hope we got you something to chew on. Best of luck!

 

I fully understand yr concerns over the braking .
When in Good overall condition the brakes .. work. They will stop your Bike and save your Ass.. should the need occur.
Will they let you do stoppies? Not a Hope.
Have the exact same brake system (As XJ) on my Yama 350LC it weighs 300 +- lbs ( at least 100lbs less ) the brakes are mediocre by any yardstick. But they work.
Sintered Metal Brake pads (Ferodo) WILL make significant improvement (about the only significant one I've seen actually) But they will chew the rotors. There's always a Price.. Your Choice.
PS: Fork braces are a lot like Oil choices a religious topic.
Personally I thought they had finally 'died out'.
They cannot prevent inadequately designed forks from bending back under heavy braking... Doesn't take a genius to understand why
IF however your forks wobble (anytime).. then there are serious issues with their condition that needs attending..now.. before trusting them again.. just my Opinion though.. again your Choice.

 

Hi - I don't do anything too crazy on my bike. I weigh about 145 so I don't think that will be much of a problem. I'm going to use this bike to travel from new york to california and back in may / june. That will probably be a mix of interstate highways and smaller roads, hopefully windy little ones in mountains when availible. I have saddlebags and a tent / sleepingbag and stuff I tie down to the bike, but I don't think it weighs too much -- maybe all my luggage together would be an extra 30 pounds.

There might in fact be air in the system... I'm not really sure but pulling on the brakes feels a little bit "soft", at least initially. Once you've pulled the brake in a decent amount though, it toughens up.

Any suggestions on where to get new brake lines, or the Sintered Metal Brake pads? I have yet to find a good motorcycle shop near where I live...

I'll keep my eyes peeled for a dual-disk front end but I'm holding my breath. Same way I'd like a XJ750 gas tank that matched (can't seem to get more than ~115 miles before I hit reserve. And I don't know / don't want to find out how far reserve can take me!)

I think I'll hold off on the fork brace, as I haven't had any problems with the front fork handling or suspension. The rear shocks on the other hand might get replaced. Or maybe just adjusted...

 

You'd be surprised how much of a difference a brace makes. Wobbly may not be the best word to describe XJ forks. It's not that the bike is unstable. It's just not as stiff as it could be. The difference in handling is very pronounced. The idea is that the brace forces both fork tubes to stay in the same plane even when under stress. This is particularly noticeable when cornering and under braking. If you can find one, I suspect you'd be well served to pick it up. I'd think that installing a different front end would be a whole lot more work though it would be nice.

Sounds like you have a great trip planned. I'm jealous.

I see that you're in NYC. In a couple of weeks, several of us are getting together here in NJ to do some XJ tuning. Any interest in joining us?

Greg

 

what date are you nj guys getting togeather. hey igarashi when doy you plan to leave nyc im headding out to Az in may.

 

I've a spare room out here should the Ventura Valley be along the route! And I'm apprenticing to a master of the grill. He makes the most awsome tri-tip and onions! I've got the grilled portabella mushrooms down but I missing something on the beef.

 

The tentative date for the NJ get together is 4/14/2007.

Come one come all!

 

Hmm, 4/14 in new Jersey? That might be fun. My little brother might be coming down to New York for the weekend so I might not be able to make it, but knowing him he won't make it down here in the first place.

Maybe I'll order some new stainless lines and someone there can show me what to do with them

 

Oh and I'm not exactly sure about my trip schedule yet. I have one or two meetings at school after classes end that they have to give me the dates for. (Portfolio review of the years work in photography school)

 

The date isn't rock solid yet. Though it is getting close. We'd love to have you. Let me know when you could make it.

If you had the brake lines, there's no doubt in my mind that we get them installed and give the entire system a good bleeding. Weather permitting, we could even get out to the Pine Barrens and give them a good test!

Greg

 

2 things, You can either just cut the brace out of your original fender, or if you dont mind welding you could do what I did here:



It's just some steel roundbar and a couple of tabs welded on: