My go at electrolysis. lots of pics

After some inspection, the 750 maxim tank I recently acquired on my new parts bike is in dire need of some attention.

It was either electrolysis or evapo-rust. I went with electrolysis since I didn't want to wait for an order of evapo-rust.

I couldn't find and A&H Washing Soda. That being said, I went with a product used to raise the pH level in swimming pool water, $8.50 at walmart. The active ingredient is sodium carbonate so it should work out. I used about 1 cup for 5 gallons.

Purchased a 1/4"x3' steel rod from Lowe's for $2.80. Cut it in half and shaped it accordingly.

It is now currently running on a 2/4/6amp trickle charger I use for winter battery storage. It is a very basic model so I am not able to select what ampage it uses but it did indicate a connection was made and kicked into charge mode. Hopefully it will prove to be sufficient for this use.

It has been running for 1.5 hrs so I'm gonna get some pics on here and go check that it is working as intended.


These first 4 pics are simply before pics taken through the fill hole. The rust and old fuel is quite evident.











These next 2 pics are befores taken carefully through the petcock hole







The next 3 are the current state of the petcock. You can see the PO's paint job on the face of the petcock its self.









The following pair is the old contents of the tank, old fuel and rust alike.







The next pair is the product of a water rinse.







Petcock entry tapped off.





Filled with sodium carbonate solution.





Anode setup/connection.





Ground connection. I did grind the paint off to ensure a good contact point.





Overview of the whole setup.




more updates to come...

 

Nicely done, but add some commentary with each pic so we know what you did in the pics.
Looking forward to following this.

 

I just checked on the tank. It is certainly working. As I said before, I do not know what amperage it is running at. The proof is in the pudding I guess. These two pics were just taken, only 1 hour 45 mins in...





Given how the process works, it seems to me that more anode surface area would prove to be more effective/faster. I think I'm going to modify my setup and add another anode. Perhaps if I position 2 anodes in a "Y" fashion it will allow them to better collect the gunk from their respective positions within the tank?

Also, I chose not to remove the fuel sending unit. I do not intend on using it so I am not concerned with it. Additionally, I did see a post somewhere in which the poster ran the entire electrolysis process with both a sending unit and petcock still in tact. They reported that the process had no effect on either unit and they operated perfectly afterwards.

 

Al, a few things i've found. the action is line of sight, so if the rod is on one side the other doesn't get too much action. your "Y" idea is good but the more rod the more current it will draw so feel your charger to see if it gets hot.
a drop or two of dish soap helps break up the varnish and a drop of hair conditioner, cream rinse, type stuff keeps the bubbles to a minimum.
the outside looks good

 

...and like the directions on the bottle says, "Rinse and repeat"! :roll: :roll:

 

Do you have a small hole for venting?

dave

 

I did see something like you mentioned, Tim. It was on youtube, guy said he had mixed results with electrolysis. One time it was line of sight, like you said, another time he reported good results all over. I'll probably use the tank seam and move it all around just to be sure.

Yes, Mr. Fiddles. The spray cap that holds the anodes is not air tight. Also, the cap does not seal tightly with the tank.

Here is the product I substituted for the Washing Soda. Scored from walmart for $8.50





I went back out and checked at 3 hours, lucky too. My petcock tape job was leaking. So, I had to drain, rise, tape, repeat...





3 hour anode...




Straining the electrolyte solution...




Used an old pair of golfing shorts to catch the crustys.






Yummy!




Dirty strained solution.




Couple quick peeks inside! Its only been 3 hours but I can already see a difference.






Anode double time!

 

I just went out to check it out again. Its like watching paint dry, can't see it happening but you just know it is!

Since I was out there, I ground a few more spots on the seam to move the ground around.

In the process of disconnecting the battery, I hit what I have always assumed was the power button. Much to my delight, it began to cycle through the amp settings.

I moved the ground and started it on 6 amps.

Tim, thanks for the heads up. I'll be sure to check it out periodically.

 

Looking really good so far.

 

moving the - ground won't help, once it's connected the whole tank is -,
you need to move the + rod around.
think of the rod as a florescent bulb, the shadowed part of the tank isn't getting much action.
those bubbles are hydrogen, no problem when their at the top but keep the tank full so there's not a lot of room for it to build up

 

Sure, that makes more sense. I was thinking about it backwards I guess.

Well, looked at it again. The charger was indicating "full charge". I'm not quite sure if it is reacting that way due to the second anode or since it was running on 6amps.

Although both anodes were coated in crud, I went back to 1. The 2 anode setup proved to be too difficult in finding good placement. Perhaps with 1 in there it won't trip to full charge.

Once again, my tape is leaking slowly. I figure I'll let run for a while longer and cut it off for the night. In the morning I'll try to figure out a good seal and most likely try the double setup again. Maybe I'll try the 2 on the 4amp setting...

Any ideas for a readily and easy seal on the petcock tapp?

 

Reinstall the petcock, I heard it wont cause any damage and it might clean the crud off the one you have.

 

Or....after looking at the pics again use the gasket off the petcock and a thin piece of plastic or wood, mark the holes on the plastic or wood, drill the holes and use what ever you make to seal the petcock hole.
It's getting late but I'm gonna run out to the garage and snap a pic of what I made.
Be back in a minute or ten.

 

Ok, here they are, poor quality because my youngest daughter is still "borrowing" my good camera!

 

Ha, I did think about fitting some scrap steel but couldn't figure a seal. Might as well get some use out of the old gasket.

I may just throw the petcock back in it. The little mesh screens are pretty clogged...

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. I do need it sometimes...

 

looking good so far, nice work.

 

To seal the petcock hole, I used a flat piece of metal (use aluminum or steel) with bolts holes drilled in it and a scrap of inner tube as a gasket to keep it from leaking. Worked great.
Duct tape just doesn't last in this application.

 

Something is not right...

When I went out last night the battery charger was on "abort mode". I do not know what tripped it.

This morning, I put the petcock back in, added fresh solution and set it up to run. Plugged the charger in the wall and hit the power. Right back in to abort mode...

I pulled and ground down both anodes back to raw steel. Inserted them, made contact, power on and now it won't even register that a connection has been made. I checked and checked and rechecked the connections and made sure that the anodes did not touch the tank....

I feel like I may be borrowing a more suitable charger from walmart or auto zone....

 

I am not sure why but after i did all my stuff my roll around battery charger died. When you do this get an old or cheap charger.

 

I was afraid of this. Thankfully walmart is so great with returns and exchanges. I think I might just trade up and pay a few more dollars for more amps.

 

Nice work. I wouldn't mind getting me a 750 tank for mine also. It would be nice having the extra capacity.

 

I was finally able to get up to walmart to exchange the battery charger.

I upgraded from a 2/4/6amp to a 2/6/10. Shook up the tank real good to be sure the solution was good and mixed up, set her up, plugged her in...off she goes.

The instruction book with this model said something to the manner of "if the unit is steady putting out its strongest charge for more 12hr it will fault into Abort Mode". The previous charger did default to abort mode but it wasn't due to 12hrs. IDK must have just fried it somehow...

Anyway, its back up and running at 10amps. More updates and picks to come...

 

Maybe set the timer on the stove to go off every 5hrs or so and give the charger a chance to cool off, maybe a couple of hours and then set the charger to go for another 5hrs? It may save you a trip back to walmart.
Also, Ive heard that if you have a battery, hook it up between the charger and the electrode, it acts sort of like a buffer and is easier on the charger. Just a thuoght.

 

From what I've been able to research, it's been recomended to stay only within 1.5 - 2.5 amps, not 'high' amps like 4 or higher.

Dave Fox

 

I have only been running it on the 10amps when I am around to monitor things. I've got to run to work soon so I will crank it down to 2amp then.

I snapped a quick pic this morning, after it had run on 10amp last night.

When I get home this evening, I will do another drain/flush.


Here she is after about 6 hours on 10 amp...



The difference in the pics may not be too great but it was certainly evident in hand. That being said, it is not entirely fair to say that was all due to the higher amperage as I did reposition the anode also.

 

can show us internal pics at the stages when you flush it out?

dave

 

Hog, it was getting dark this last flush so I was unable to get a decent picture of the innards. Although it did look similar to the first flush results, it was noticeably better.

The inside ring of the tank, at the fill hole, actually has/had a ring of paint from the PO. If you look at the before pics, inside the tank where the frame tunnel is, you can see some parts of that surface look dark. I believe it is actually over-spray. Now, if you look at the flush pic, it is more evident with some obvious rust spots. I think I way try to scrape that over-spray away when I flush it next.

To better illustrate what I am talking about and easier comparison, here are those pics again.


2 Before:




2 at first flush:




I will be sure to get some better internal flush pics.

 

In the first set of pics there was one where the "brew" had bubbled out and over the paint, did it make any difference to the paint, or did you just wipe it off?

Cheers, Graham

 

I let it run, attended, at 10amps for a couple hours this morning then turned it down to 2amps before I left for work for 8.5 hours.

When I returned home from work, I drained and added fresh solution then set it up to run at 6amps.

After running while I was at work:




I had the petcock out for the first drain/flush so I was able to get nearly all of the solution out at that time. The petcock has been reinstalled so I was not able to get all of it drained out. That being said, I'm sure there is a bit of sediment still in the tank. It shouldn't be too bad though, doesn't feel as though there is a bunch sloshing around in there. Anyway, here is what I was able to shake out the filler.



I better get to ordering a petcock rebuild kit and a new gasket. Ideally, I'd like to be ready to strap it on and ride when the electrolysis is finished. Although, I am not certain how I wish to finish it. What do you guys recommend?

 

This "brew" caused no damage to the paint at all. It wiped clean with a few swipes of an old tee shirt.




What it did do was clean this rust ring to bare metal!

 

I've done 4 tanks, most recently on a 77 GL1000. I use an ancient 6amp manual charger, arm and hammer washing soda, and the biggest electrode I can fashion to fit in the tank. I've had the best results using flat mild steel, about 1" wide. It seems to work much faster than round rods. I don't use stainless, I read somewhere that the gasses produced are probably not healthy. I find that a tank like yours would require twice daily electrolyte changes with anode cleaning and after 3 days it should look pretty good. I always shake a pile of drywall screws around inside the tank to loosen the crusty stuff first. This process does not affect the non-rusted metal at all however it will leave the surface somewhat pitted where the rust was removed. If the tank is not going immediately back in service, I pour in some ATF and slosh it around because the tank will flash rust immediately otherwise. I have used the Carswell sealer with good results on two of the tanks due to the heavy pitting. The were not leaking after the electrolysis but I was concerned that the pitting was going to be a point of failure in the future.

 

Thanks for letting me know that the "brew" does not affect the paint, may just give this a whirl.


Cheers, graham

 

Thanks Super. I've been contemplating using some flat steel I have, like you described. I'll go ahead and fashion a new anode tomorrow.

Just cleaned the anode again. I snapped this pic so you can see how the brew actually helped clean the rim. I never actually filled the tank that full, it just bubbled up.

 

You can see the paint is sorta ripped away at the top of the ring. This was not the result of the electrolysis. The paint in the ring was loose to begin with. I imagine it was from splashing gas when it was in use. I simply peeled it away.

 

I shut her down late last night so the charger had some time to cool down.

Fired it up this morning on 6amp. The anode always looks the same, covered and nasty. I will say that the runs on higher amps do always produce a thicker nastier anode.




While it ran this morning I fashioned a new anode out of some scrap flat steel I had. This will, hopefully, be more efficient in collecting the the trash.




I am beginning to wonder how long this process is going to take. Although the anode is always coated to the max, the solution does not seem as nasty as before. When I clean the anode, I try to scoop out the nasty bi-product that floats to the top. It would appear as though the solution is getting better.

 

Prince_Albert, I agree with super on this one. I think if you take a handful of drywall screws of some cleaned gravel and shake around really good you will get faster better results. I personally use washed gravel because it is larger, has jagged edges and easier to make sure it is all out of the tank. And when I say shake it really good, I mean shake until you can't hold your arms up anymore, rest a few minutes, and repeat. I do this before ever using the electrolysis so it takes less time.

 

The bigger the anode the better, but the more amps that is required. And clean your anode multiple times a day, the less build-up, the greater the "draw".

Ospho (phosphoric acid) makes a great sealer after you're done.

And don't hook up your terminals "backwards" on the tank/anode, it will eat away at the good metal!

Electrolysis takes time, but it works very well.

 

@ Chacal.
Would it be of any benefit to wire wheel and buff the crap out of the anode. The one in the pic above looks slightly oxidized before it's even in the tank?
Just curious if it will make a difference.


Cheers, Graham.

 

Anything that makes for better electrical conductivity will help, although that bar doesn't look too bad.

 

When I dump out the messy electrolyte to replace it with clean solution, I give the anode a scuff with 40 grit to clean it off.

With my old CTC 6 amp manual charger (it does taper down when hooked to a battery that has reached a full charge), I measured about 3.5, sometimes 4 amp draw with a clean anode and clean, hot water electrolyte. After a night of electrolysis, my fluke ammeter measures under an amp draw, but thats with dirty electrolyte and a gunked-up anode.

Dave

 

Super/Mook, I'll use your shaker method when I drain it next.

Chacal, I'll check out the Ospho. Thanks

I have been cleaning the anode quite often and have also ground it clean a couple times.

Since I stepped it up with the anode it has switched to "full charge" and stopped charging twice today. I set it on 2amp when I left for work. When I returned home for lunch, 2hrs later, it was reading "full charge". I unplugged it for a few then set it on 2amps again. Again, after work it was "full charge".

Perhaps the larger anode is causing it to give false readings on lower amps. It ran fine for 2hrs on 6amp before I left for work. I'll see how it runs on 10amp for a while...

Here are some after work pics of the new anode. Although it is certainly collecting more, the top of the anode was quite bare.

 

Be sure you use a in-line fuel filter when you get done.
It may seem real clean but it only takes a small little chunk of junk to blow a whole weekend of riding time.

Good luck there!!

 

I drained and rinsed it this morning. Its definitely looking much better but still needs some more time. I had plans for a ride this afternoon, cut short due to weather, so I didn't have time shake it up with any sort of agitator.

Here is what the bucket held after I drained the tank:



This is what came out the petcock:



This is the product of 5 flushes:



Some more progress pics:











Petcock:





Putting the petcock back in certainly help clean the filter:





The wear on the new petcock. I was only able to it it with a wire brush. You can see the pitting on the bottom:



And its back running at 10amps...

 

That tank is looking really clean, thanks for all the commentary and pic updates, looks like you're almost there!

 

Al, the amount of that PH+ in the water will effect the current draw, so if maybe you want to slow it down a little .........

 

No problem Maxim. Generally, I look for deals. I wanted to really give a thorough, well illustrated, write-up. I hope it helps others as well.

Tim, I kind of had that suspicion. The first time I mixed the solution I certainly didn't measure the PH+. It was certainly a much higher concentration. Perhaps that may have been the culprit in frying the first charger. Since I started using the new one, I have been much more critical with the mixture.

 

Well, wouldn't you know it! As soon as I mentioned the burned up charger, the new one craps the bed on me. Reckon that lays waste to my suspicions of whay the first one failed. I was even babying this one with more down time...

I'm currently on a 15 hour shift at work so I won't be able to get back to Walmart till tomorrow, hopefully.

 

You should try and find an old charger at a yard sale. They didn't have any fancy electronics, usually just a big old transformer. You had to be careful to unhook them, or risk boiling the battery dry.

I've used an old car battery as a "buffer", it may save damaging the newer chargers. Hook up the battery to the tank and then add the charger to the circuit.

There is only a limited amount of current that will pass through the electrolyte. I bought a new "Schumacher" 15amp charger, with microprocessor controls etc etc. I suggest that using this type of charger to pass current through the tank my not be what the "microprocessor" is looking for!

 

Time to clean the heavy rust out of a 78 Goldwing gl1000 tank. I hooked it all up yesterday, after 10 hours much of the rust was gone. I did a flush/replace fluid at every 5 hrs. I put new fluid in this morning and its been on about 5 hrs now, so gonna flush again soon.

Fluid is:5 gal bucket of water with a 1/4 to 1/2 cup of washing soda in it.

Charger is: the el cheapo $5.00 one from harbor freight. It's charging at 6.7 volts, according to another meter. After hooking up the clips, and waiting a bout a minute, I can hear a faint bubbling/fizzing sound from the tank opening.

rod is: A long screw/bolt from a small wooden wire cable roller

support is: a 1.5 -2.5" rubber stopper that was a left-over from an old science lab. There are two holes in the top. I bent the rod and stuffed it through the hole. I have it in line with the other hole, so that way I know how the rod is oriented inside the tank. The other hole can be a vent if needed, but the way this tank is set up, an can have the rod in the hole from the sending unit, which is on top, and the filler neck is open for vent, which is also on top.

Dave F

 

I took the charger off about 5 pm today, that give's about 10 hrs worth of current today. After flushing the tank, I see a lot of shiny metal on the inside of the tank. There are still speckly rust-colored spots, but the heavy scale and solid rust blanket is all gone. So, tomorrow I'm going to pick up a gallon of phosph. acid and give the inside an acid bath to finish up.

Dave Fox