Hello All..ALOT of ?'s. LONG Post. Plz read ?'s. U may help.

Hey folks. I'm Joe. This is one of my first posts here on the forums.
Been a member of the site since last year and have constantly ended up here from general searches for almost three years. I really like this site and it seems to have a good atmosphere from what I can tell.

I "proudly" own a 08 Kawasaki ninja 250. I bought it in 2008 with 600 mi. on it. I call myself the 2nd original owner I've been a forum member over at ninjette.org since its inception and have over 1000 posts over there related to that bike specifically. I'm fairly technical minded and have done all of the work on my bike and have maintained all of my cars for the past 15yrs. I got my m-class and bought the 250 for a great deal 4yrs. ago. One year later I purchased a Yamaha XJ650J for Sara my fiancée of recent. She wanted to learn to ride and I taught her first in a parking lot for a couple of weeks then let her into the street. Once I built her skills and allowed her to reach 3rd and 4th down the street on the maxim she was hooked. (So was I!! ;/)

Here starts the story of our XJ650. We had a horrible buying experience prior to the purchase of our Maxim (story for another day). I test drove the Maxim and knew she was perfect for Sara to use as a beginning rider and for us to take on weekend trips. In fact, the bike was in such nice shape that after I talked the owner down, I ended up just giving him what he was originally asking, $1500. Also, there was a lien on the title that we confirmed was invalid prior to purchase and just this month titled the bike!!

This Maxim was used by the previous owners vertically challenged old lady. She dropped it a couple of times at very slow speed (nothing serious) and later decided a nice scooter was the only thing right for her. He did say that he had the carbs tuned, replaced the steering bearings, and had new tires put on it. The rotors and pads are great. I'm not positive if he mentioned a valve job too because this was three years ago.

Anyways, we did not end up putting the bike on the road because things in life just kept coming up. Well now we are ready to get the XJ road ready, but she has some major and minor issues that need attention before that happens. I did start the bike monthly for the first year, tri-monthly for the second, and just yesterday I started it up after one year of not running. After some ether and some choke play she fired right up on two year old gas. Considering it was two year old gas she sounded like a dream

So there’s the background.
Here are the questions for you XJ pros.

Obviously I'll want new oil, a filter, check the air filter and get that old gas out of the tank.

1. What oil should I start with?
2. Can I find an oil filter at a local auto store or special order?
3. The left mirror set-nut froze because of oxidation. I used a penetrant on it, let it sit, then took it of the bike and wrenched on it accidentally damaging the thread. I believe we need both mirrors for inspection. Is this correct?
4. If we were to replace both mirrors, what size and thread turn will we need, and can you recommend a set with a link for me to look at as a base point?
5. The battery was dead after the 2nd month of owning the bike. I'm sure this is because it doesn’t charge under 2000RPM (I'm getting the hang of this ) Are there any good threads around for this bike that show how to check the charging system to make sure it is doing its job over 2000RPM?
6. I read something about cleaning the alternator brushes. Is there a DIY for this too? I'm a fan of preventative maintenance
7. We have to put new bars on for Sara to ride the bike because the OEM bars, while comfortable for the long run (my opinion), increase the cornering exponentially and are uneasy feeling in slow speed maneuvers for the beginning rider. Is it correct that these bars are 7/8's and will any of the low-cost Bikemaster bars fit ok without problems? Sara is approx. 5'8". And we're stuck considering all of them. Any recommendations for comfort are welcome. Sometimes I'll be driving us and I'm 6'3" so if anyone has this experience please respond too.
8. When turning the handlebars to the left (I think it was the left) the idle goes up a little! Obviously this could be a safety issue. I believe it's because the throttle control needs lube. Are there any other possibilities or issues that may need be addressed?
9. I've been under the assumption that the rear axle housing gear oil is one that does not need replacing for alooong time. Is this true? I'll replace it anyway
10. Fork Seals: Yeah. the left one leaks or has finished leaking at this point! I'm fine with the seal leaking for the season and holding this project off til the winter months, but is it difficult to add more oil for this season?
11. The head gasket leaks a very small amount of oil from the top end. This should be ok for a season as long as it is not spitting no?
12. Thank you for reading this far. It means a lot to us and possibly the safety of my loved one :| As an experienced XJ owner, If you were in this situation, what angle of attack would you have to insure this to be a successful season and under the circumstances what precautions would you take before roading this bike.

Thank you very much for any replies. I will make sure Sara Thanks each individual response personally.

 

Welcome Buffalony...and Sara...quite the list and quite the story. Firstly, it doesn't really matter what the PO said was done....you have to be certain things are right....which means a fair bit of work on your part and you need to get a factory service manual or a Haynes...but you need one.

1+2. I'll start with oil.. if you live south, 20W/40 SE 5 pints for oil change. Filter and oil change is 5.6 pints. Fram CH6003 for a filter but check with Len at xj4ever [top right corner].
3+4.You need both mirrors up here in Canuckistan - where are you? Check with the local garage or go on-line for your state/province guidelines. Has the thread been stripped? Can you re-thread and re-use your mirror?
5. Fully charge the battery and get it tested - can it hold the charge? may need to replace...batteries can die at 2 years.. use the search engine to look for threads on charging..
6. The bars of the 650 seca may fit your needs.
7. Increased engine speed may also be the result of poor routing of the cable, ties being too tight, lube for the cable, lube the linkage8
8. Change all your lubes - especially the final drive [most likely never changed since 3K or 6K service.
9. Fix the oilseal - the bike wont pass the safety.
10. You've got to remove the head cover to check your valves are in spec - change the gasket at that time.

Now, how old are the tires? check the numbers on the side and find the thread on the forum to interpret. Are the brake lines the originals? They are lifed for 4 years max. Visually inspect the rear brake shoes for delamination - replace. Check the master cyclinder and get new seals from chacal for the m/c as well as the brake calipers. If you want your good lady to be safe on this 30 year old bike, there is some work to be done. There will be more posts coming down the pipes - bigfitz/hogfiddles/wizard and many more....read and learn....I did...my bike is now on the rebuild...

Dave

 

Re: Hello All..ALOT of ?'s. LONG Post. Plz read ?'s. U may h

Hi Joe and welocme to he forum from Denver, CO. Someone will tell you this, so I may as well, in the signature of your account put your bike, year, and where you're at (someone may be nearby to help).

1. My first thing was checking the rear brakes for delamination, there are many posts about it on here. Also check brake lines for age , stock lines were only designed for 5-6 yrs i believe. I changed all fluids for my own sake, that way I know when it was done last.

2. I found my filter at a local bike shop, but I've seen a limited selection of bike filters at some of the local auto parts shop.

3.Each state has its own laws on what is and is not required, but its a safe bet that at least one mirror is needed.

4.Contact our resident parts Guru, Chacal, his link is in the upper right of the forum screen, XJ4EVR, he can let you know what you'll need.

5.Bike batteries are notoriously short lived, it could be dead or it could be low acid in the cells, you can get battery acid at parts stores, there are several threads about batteries on here.

6. Under the XJ4EVR link there are several permanent post by Chacal, The Church of Clean, everything you need to know about cleaning and synching your carbs, The Information Overload Hour, which has links to all sorts of helpful links about particular subjects

7.Can't answer this one.

8.If this happens, especiaaly when turning lest, then the throttle cable does not have enough slack and when turning, it gets streched to its max.
Either you need a new throttle cable or it needs too be adjusted so that there is slack in it.

9.A Haynes manual will have the mileage requirements and I'm sure there are several posts about, the search forums feature pulls up a lot of info, do you have to sift a little. Once again too, The information overload hour on Chacal's page.

10/. Spongy forks can affect braking, but if it's not too bad, you can probably make it for a while, but keep an eye on it.

11.Make sure all the nuts are torqued to the right specs, I found that the two nuts facing down, between the 2&3 header pipes were slightly loose and when I tightened them the leak went away. If that does not help, it's not too hard to pull the cam cover and top end if a gasket needs replaced. As usual there are posts on how to do this.

Get a manual and go through the maintenance section in it and do everything that is stated for the mileage interval that is closest to the mileage on the odometer.

Hope this helps, enjoy your ride they're fun.

Cheers,
Massimo

 

Hello and welcome,

I'd like to add a few notes: It has been stated here that the proper oil for these bikes is motorcycle oil, not automotive, and that you want 20W-50 of the "4T" grade oil. This is a result of having what is called a "wet clutch" and using other things can/will cause premature failure of the clutch (and other parts).

Search eBay for XJ650 mirrors, you will be able to find OEM mirrors there, or you can go through Chacal. Whether they are required for inspection or not, you NEED both mirrors. If I had the money, I'd make a rear view camera rig onto my bike so I could see behind me on a screen by the gauges.

Look up the thread "Be the Bunny". One thing I think is a real must which I had forgotten about until recently are headlight and tail light modulators. For some reason, people charge up the wazoo for the headlight ones, but you can get a taillight modulator from superbrightleds.com which will work great for just a few bucks. I have a friend who is going to help me make a headlight modulator for about $10 rather than purchasing one of the marketed ones around $80.

Some might dispute this but you have to remember that you should ALWAYS imagine yourself as being invisible to the cage drivers and do everything to maximize your visibility for when you slip up and forget or they are doing something stupid. We lost a great guy here named Bill simply because the mini-van turning left just didn't see him despite his being a very safe and conscientious driver. BE SEEN! I'd go so far as to suggest a flashing light on the back of your helmet ... they make them, I got me one.

Batteries are troublesome and die frequently, especially if you have a normal lead acid battery. Don't buy one of those. Spend the extra to get an AGM or GEL battery. They are spill proof, never need water, hold a charge much longer, do not suffer as much sitting out a season and a few other bonuses. They will cost about double the lead acid battery if purchased locally, but if you use the 'net, you can probably find a mail order AGM for around $50. I think BikeMaster has one for that price, but I am not sure. Prices vary based on model, and the price for the one I use in my Maxim X may be different than what the SJ650 uses.

Also, get a float charger for the bike. You can get a really cheap one from harbor Freight for anywhere between $5.99 and $12.99. The regular price is the latter, but you can often get them on sale. Most of the ones sold for motorcycles are marked up a ridiculous amount. You can also go to your automotive store/department and get a decent one there for less than the marketed "motorcycle charges" Just make certain that it automatically stops charging when the battery is full and starts up when the charge drops. If you get a "manual" charger, then you can overcharge/cook the battery.

Go to your auto parts store and get a pigtail - two wire extension cable used for trailers. it will be about 12-18 inches long and has a male and female connection at both ends so you can't plug them in "wrong". Cut it in two (making sure one half is long enough to stick out as stated below), splice one end to the end of the float charger and wire the other end to the battery, leaving the end sticking out somewhere outside of the side cover. I attach mine with a zip tie to the frame piece right in front of the battery box. Voila! You now have a very convenient connection to use for maintaining your battery without having to remove the side cover or dealing with those stupid (usually very cheap) clips.

Replacing the valve cover gasket is easy, and you really need to check the valve clearances (kind of tough the first time till you figure it out). So buy the gasket, the feelers and Chacal's bucket retaining tool.

Read this thread: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=36362.html
Pay particular close attention to BigFitz's list. This is your fiance'. You don't want to cut corners one ANYTHING safety related. For performance, search for "The Church of Clean". After you drain out that two year old gas, use a half can of Seafoam to some portion of a tank of gas (opinions vary on how much). Be sure to leave it sit after running it about 5 minutes after adding it to the gas to give it time to work. Do this for a tank or two and any crude/varnish left by the old gas should be gone. Oh, and if the bike doesn't have a fuel filter already, go get one. Just one of the small things you can get at the auto parts store and such that you use for things like lawn mowers. Stick that in the gas line where you can get to it to change it but not have it in the way looking "wrong" and you are all set. Very minor surgery required.

Last thing I'll hit you with now, if the bike still has the original fuse box with the glass tube filters, replace it ASAP with one that uses the blade fuses like your car. Chacal sells one that will fit in the same place for not too much money. When I first started riding, I was cruising in the left lane of the freeway in traffic when the main vibrated loose and I suddenly lost power ... I was dead in the median until I finally found that stupid thing sticking half out of the slot.

 

You need to check the rear brake pads visually for delamination. Don't let the rear lock up on her suddenly. Not a fun experience for a seasoned rider, very bad news for a newbie.

Need to check the valve shims, then clean the carbs, set the float levels, bench sync, running sync, then tune.

When you replace the bars you can go with a standard bend, euro bend, drag, etc. You just have to find the one that fits her right.

After you replace the bars, non of your cables will be the correct length. Sometimes this can be remedied by re-routing the cables.

The front brake lines: The originals were only good for 4 years according to Yamaha. Go with stainless steel brake lines for an upgrade over stock braking. (notice I said stock braking, not brakes. Original brakes have GOT to go.)

Date codes on tires: Anything over 6 years old is not safe.

After all the work is done be prepared, that Maxie will make your Ninja retreat to an ancient Japanese temple.

 

All very good advice.

One detail point everyone missed: You need YAMAHA-specific mirrors, because the right hand stalk is reverse-threaded. That or a set with an adapter.

Some other comments in regard to your questions:

#6: not difficult; but DIAGNOSE your charging system don't just start guessing. Be sure you keep up on the water levels in the battery.

#10: no, but the additional oil will just leak out. Leaky front forks aren't just messy, they don't DO THEIR JOB (damping) very well. Not safe to be riding around on. A bouncy front end causes reduced braking capability.

#11: you sure it's not just the VALVE COVER GASKET? The one you need to remove anyway, to check the valve clearances? (This is NOT a "valve job" it's simply a part of regular maintenance. A "valve job" is a lots bigger job and not likely what PO was referring to.)

Valve clearances need to be checked and adjusted every 5000 miles, and need to be in spec before you can sync the carbs you'll need to adjust.

YOU NEED A MANUAL. There are a LOT of things you're going to need to attend to before anyone trusts their life to this bike. And to get them done, you will need a service manual.

 

Wow. I didnt expect so many responses. I really appreciate it. It will take me some time to digest all of this, being a full time student and all, but I will keep you guys updated as to our progress.

Ok. Currently on the list:

Check brakes for delamination. I have never heard of this problem anywhere before. Sounds viable and scary. "@ Tskaz" so ur saying that the rear tire has to come off and the shoes need to be examined because the pad could seperate from the shoe and wedge in the drum?

Replace brake lines sounds like a must. They look great, but I understand the rubber degrades. Only 4 years on the lines. really? How about a visual inspection?

Order new valve cover gasket. (Sorry bigfitz. I did mean valve cover. I always mix those terms. sorry)

Valve adjustment. - this will make three valve adjustments ahead for the summer The maxim, the ninja is 500mi away from valve lash check and Sara little brothers Honda Del Sol needs a check. Never done them but I'm not afraid of em. I do have feeler gauges in my precision box but their not the angled set. More tools

I did notice the mirrors were different hand threads. I believe JCwhitney sells mirrors with opposite threads without the need for an adapter.

Good point about the line lengths with new bars. I've been thinking about sitting Sara on the bike and comparing all of the bar measurements with respect to her. I never once thought about the line lengths being a problem.
Thanks for bringing this up. I think I will put her on the bike and figure out what set we'll go with, then order lines if needed after the new bars are in so we can make some measurements. I dont like the idea of possibly having to replace and/or modify some or all of the lines because of length. I think we'll order a set and look at it from there. Bikemasters are only $30 max anyways right.

@bigfitz52. I read a post you responded to some time ago and concluded the brushes should be maintained to some extent regardless of whether or not I believe they are a problem. I really just wanted to know if there was a multimeter check(s) I could perform to verify if the charging system and it components were in working order. I think I'll convince her we should spend the dough on a good Battery considering the charging characteristics of the bike. I do have a couple of trickle chargers with quick connect battery attachments.

Tires are suitable.

@ tumbleweed. Funny you mentioned it. The fuse box was on the list. I knew there had to be an upgrade. haha. Infact, when I was jumping the bike to get it started, I blew the main. I opened the fusebox and smiled when I saw the glass fuses. I'll add the blade type upgrade to the future upgrades list. In the mean time I did make sure Sara knows where the box is and I added some fresh fuses to it incase she runs into problems before the upgrade can happen.

@tumbleweed. I am aware of the JASO cert. and the importance of wet clutch approved oil. 20W-50!! really Were in Corning NY.

I will get a service manual. i may have downloaded one on my other PC. I was reading through the XJCD thread here and when I got to the end it didnt sound so pretty. I would still like to get my hands on it as it sounds like a necessity!!

As I stated, I'm a fulltime student with less than 4 weeks left. As we progress I'll keep this thread updated.

Thanks again for your intelligent and dedicated replies. I'm glad to have found a passionate bunch of XJ fanatics.

Joe

 

"... so ur saying that the rear tire has to come off and the shoes need to be examined because the pad could seperate from the shoe and wedge in the drum?"

YES! YES! YES!

High potential for immediate sudden stop, possibly parts going flying, and almost certainly you lying on the road. If it isn't relatively new or you can't tell, replace it! Cheap Life Insurance.

For the valve check, you also need the bucket retaining tool from Chacal.

Just so you are aware, the problem with the fuse box isn't so much the fuses themselves, but rather the clips, contacts, assembly that hold them in place ...

Until recently, I knew nothing about the 4T oil ... Am in the process of switching mine over.

 

Lots of good advise.
I found the mirrors on E-bay were acceptable if you find them by application.
The oil filter in my little town was available at Car Quest, I WONT use Fram filters!!
DO check your tires, the price of tires is well worth the investment considering who will be on the bike.
Any 7/8" diam bars will work, but be sure they will work for both of you.
A new battery wouldn't hurt but if you want it to last, here's what I do. I pull it out and store it in my well house where it never drops below 50 deg F in the winter. The cold kills these batterys!
Hope you enjoy this bike!