Really close to success

Bought bike last year, 1985 xj700M that came chopped with pods and shorty 4 to 2 exhaust.

Figured earlier this year that the bike wouldnt idle properly (revved high) and was running lean due to white plugs.

Bought new jets, moved up to appropriate size for pod/exhaust setup. I think 119 mains and 40 pilot jets, could be wrong since its been months since I rebuilt I just know they are oversized. bought new fuel line o rings and new needle valves

ALSO, did a valve adjustment and now they're spot on, lost the cam timing in the process, just put it back right today, engine spins good. checked all plugs for quality with a spark test, laid em on the frame with the plug boots on and got spark across all 4.

Problems arise after I continually tweak the carbs to try and get them set. Idle pilot screws are 2.5 turns out, and I used the buisness card method, the twist tie method, and now I used a .004in feeler gauge to bench synch.

Symptoms: no start, was backfiring untill previous bench synch, now I can hear fire without afterignition in tailpipes. Feel like things are improving. still no start though, the engine spins at a regular pace blub blub blub. won't get off the starter though, no increase in speed after starter engagement.

The plugs were black but still sparkin fiercely(brand new, just black from attempting to start the bike up with no success, I can just wipe them clean at this point) New battery, New coils( shocked the crap outta me) Cleaned my carb thoroughly with spray on carb cleaner, lemon juice, AND chem dip carb cleaner(in a paint can). Oh, it won't fire up and run on ether, carb cleaner, or gas.

Any advice for me?

I'm thinking of checking the float levels, even though they look good, I just havent got any plastic clear tubing to use laying about. bowls have fuel though, checked that by pulling drain plugs. Petcock works just fine, tested the 2 on positions.

Any ideas are greatly appreciated, been working on this pig for a year and dropped nearly a grand into my carbs. new jets, new body for #4, new tops(ooo chrome) new pod filter(I know they are sacreligious, but I dont have no airbox at all, this thing is a chopped bobber) and new hardware for every single screw. Havent replaced any throttle shaft seals yet, and I think theres a vaccum leak on #2. Would construction paper from my kid's school stuff do the trick of sealing up the carb boots?

 

Maybe just some words of encouragement? lol. I wanna rip the carbs apart again and see if I can find a gremlin in there.

 

-Your carbs aren't clean. Dipping doesn't cut it, they need to be completely disassembled, cleaned and inspected. You need to poke stiff bristles from your parts brush through the passages; pull the emulsion tubes and clean them inside and out including all the tiny holes, etc. You didn't clean your carbs; you made a "first pass" at them.

Did you pull the enrichment plungers? Pilot screws? Replace the pilot screw o-rings? Disassemble the floats, polish and inspect the seats, clean and inspect the float needles and replace the o-rings or sealing washers on the float valve seats?

-Float levels are BEAUCOUP important.

-A "bench" sync is just a starting point; once you get it running you need to do a running vaccum sync. That's the most important step after the float levels.

-Dipping the carbs very well could have screwed up the throttle shaft seals if they weren't already; submerging assembled carbs can trap the cleaning solvent in the throttle shaft seals and turn them to muck.

-You're going to need fresh new plugs and a fully charged battery for it to start. It spins faster and the starter uses lots less current with the plugs out. It's possible that with the plugs IN, the starter is using all of the available "juice" leaving nothing to fire the ignition. It's very possible for the starter to spin the motor quite vigorously while not leaving anything to fire the plugs with, it's happened to me more than once or I wouldn't have believed it. This isn't like a car; the alternator is useless until the motor is running above 2 grand, the whole thing is very battery-dependent.

(And carburetor sensitive.)

NO, don't use construction paper to try to "plug" a vacuum leak.

You gotta do this right, or you're going to continue to fight with it. Right now, you're on the path to joining the "I've cleaned my carbs four times" club.

One last question: You said you screwed up your cam timing adjusting the valves. Is this a watercooled "X" motor, or an air cooled XJ? If it's an aircooled motor, how pray tell could you screw up the cam timing re-shimming the valves? Is it possible you didn't get it back where it belongs?

 

How did you "loose the cam timing" when you were checking the valve shims? This could still be your problem as well.

Kenneth

 

1. well when I changed the valve shims I didn't do it by the book and unbolted the cams in order to get access, which threw off the timing. I reset it yesterday by the book and now everything is lined up and the engine spins again.

2. Didn't ever submerge the carb bodies whole into the dip, just dissasembled and put the smaller parts into the dip

3. Did replace the pilot screws o-rings and cleaned their ports, as well as the enrichment circuits. but could probably use another look. also replaced the float valves and their seats/gaskets.

4. about the construction paper: was just an idea for a cheap fix to a busted gasket between block and carb boot. I mean its just fish paper to start with which is thick construction paper.

 

1. Lovely. Are they all in spec, clearance-wise now?

2. OK, as long as you were careful with the spray as well. There's still no guarantee it won't need throttle shaft seals, they ALL do eventually (30 years old and all.)

3. Good first steps. Now you need to carefully "wet-set" the float levels with fuel and clear tubing. The more accurately, the better. This is very important to how the bike runs, ESPECIALLY with pods.

4. NO, gasket paper isn't "paper" at all but a sophisticated paper-like fiber composite formulated to withstand the high heat, solvents (gasoline vapor) and vibration it will be subjected to. Construction paper will probably just dissolve and disappear.

Do you have a manual?

You need to get serious here or continue to be frustrated.

Your choice. Fitz out.

 

Thanks for the advice fitz, gonna go check my clearances again tomorrow. gonna go on a run to get some clear tubing and to see if I can find some gasket paper at a parts store. Or should I order some new ones from xj4ever? and no, I do not have a manual, been following the advice on the forum to try and get mine running again. I found some torque specs and diagrams on the internet though, they've served me well spec-wise. if i had a manual I probably wouldnt have unbolted the cams to get the shims in and out.

 

Oh one question, when setting the float valves, the little metal clip, how should it be placed on the lifter tab of the floaties? in line with the clip or perpendicular to it?

 

By all means get the real parts, and QUIT TRYING TO CUT CORNERS.

Then get on eBay (or talk to Len) and get a MANUAL. Haynes OK, factory better although it assumes you're already a trained mechanic. You're going to need one (actually you do right now.)

Going into this without a book has already gotten you in trouble; you're just going to repeat the experience, these bikes are as complex as they are simple. I've been wrenching on my own bikes (and cars, etc.,) for well over 44 years and still wouldn't tear into anything without the book. Too easy to screw something up...

 

Sorry if I somehow offended you by getting my bike to at least cough and quit backfiring without a book man, I'm trying to listen to your advice and all, I'm not made of money dude, I'm in college and where I CAN cut corners, I do. I could save money if I found the right paper and cut gaskets for it, if you've been doin it for 44 years then you know people have been cutting out their own gaskets for a long time.

Cork? I know this material isn't the same but its not like a gasket maker didn't just cut it out a sheet with a stencil or a machine did the same.

Sorry but you aren't exactly helping me by saying don't cut corners when the only corner I've tried to cut is with the intake boot's gasket, if you read into this you'd see the list of parts I've had to buy, and that list goes over $500. This bike was a piece of junk when I bought it, and now it's not, just not able to fire up yet. I'm not cutting corners, I'm asking for advice on the subjects I cant figure out. If I had a million bucks this would be done already.

 

Its cause I have pods. I knew it!

And I got the timing back in order by listening to the advice on this forum and looking at pictures, then with lots of trial and dropped chains into the cam gear cavity, not reading a book.

All in all, I asked you 'because' I cant afford a book. I've had to borrow money to get some parts, and just now paid that off, not going into the red again cause I want my transportation to work.

 

I paid $15 for my factory book(s) off eBay.

You're going to waste more than that in gas if you can't use the bike or it gets half the fuel economy it does. I use my XJ for transportation to work too; I have a 56-mile one way commute.

If you want to use a 30-year old bike as your regular transportation, then you'll need to get it mechanically sound or continue to fight with it.

Figure out how to afford a manual; it will be the most valuable tool you own.

Pods don't help; but aren't insurmountable. But for the bike to run even halfway decent, you'll need everything else RIGHT. And for that, the best tool is your service manual.

 

There's an airbox on ebay I just pointed out in a thread a little bit ago. A lot cheaper and easier than all the carb work you've done...

Also, look up the "XJCD" thread stickied in the XJchat section--recent spat aside, there's a link to a working torrent that has lots of useful information. (It also, illegally, has the manuals, so I leave it to your scruples to decide on to whether you will download that as well.)

 

Keep at it, it's a great bike when it's running well, and despite your troubles... Dependable as a rock if you just do the maintenance right--and it sounds like you will.

As far as pods, they aren't really popular here... But they can be done. It's just takes a really experienced tuner. There's a great classic bikes moto shop around where I live, and they run a couple old CB's on pods beautifully. It's just not for the faint of heart.

Stick in there.

 

Thanks for the advice guys, I'll look into buying a factory manual tonight. Should be really helpful. I'm not really worried about if it works out or not, just how long I gotta work and wait to get it there. I guess the busted knuckles and carb fails have gotten to me and made me crabby, so sorry for getting mad Fitz, appreciate your advice alot.

 

Of course they do. Old CB's DON'T HAVE CV CARBS! Put direct-slide carbs on the XJ and pod away. But right now it has CV carbs.

Don't "recommend" pods unless you can speak from a positive experience with them.

 

I'm not recommending them, but I had a conversation with a very skilled mechanic today who disagreed with me when I said pods weren't recommended for my bike--and he specializes in classic bikes of every kind. That being said, I still give more weight to this forum in the end, and I certainly don't want to get involved with that.

Of course, he might just change out the carbs to do it at his level, so that's a reasonable supposition there.

 

Pods can be a PITA. CV carbs don't like them and I think the YICS has something to do with it also.
You could try the velocity stacked pod or Rick's method. Look in the XJ Modifications threads for the info. Or sell the CV carbs and get some direct slide carbs or round slide carbs. However, changing carbs can lead to a lot of modifications.