Blasphemy

Blasphemy
someone explain why the YICS tool is necessary
with it all carbs are separate all set up nice and even, then pull it out and their
not balanced anymore..... ?
is there a way to know for sure that the YICS tool is doing it's job?
why not skip the tool and tune it like it's going to run
personally i'am not a color tune kind of guy but wouldn't it make sense to color tune with the YICS tool in ? or do you ?
with the tool out could a rich #1 and a lean #2 both look good ?
if it ever warms up i'am going for a ride with a YICS tool in place, just to see what it's like

 

You can synch the carbs without the YICS tool.

One of my best friends, who owns several Secas and still is a Yamaha mechanic, will only use the YICS tool if the bike's owner insists on it.

Although I haven't used used a colortune, I agree with you about using it under real-world conditions, ie w/o the YICS tool.

 

uber noob my apologies.............how do you sych the carbs?

 

You use the YICS Tool because it's necessary to do the really ... fine, fine tuning you are looking for ... when you want the bike right on the razors edge of being perfectly fine tuned as it's designers intended.

Anyone who pulls maintenance on a Yamaha YICS Motorcycle Engine, bearing the YICS Logo on the Cam Cover and Crankshaft Covers, should appreciate the system and the need for tool's insertion prior to synchronizing the carbs.

Why debate?
The instructions don't say: "Don't bother with the tool if you're too lazy or don't feel like it, or the customer forgot to mention it."
Why debate?
You mean to tell me ... you got all the other tools and know-how to build a bike from the ground -- up! But, you can't put a bend in a short length of threaded rod and string-on some tubing, rubber chunks and few washers?
Is that it?
Oh, I see ... I get it ... your way is better.
OK ... fine.
Don't bother.

But, if you do ... don't say the Carbs got synced and charge for it!
I want one-hundred-percent.
Not fifty percent.
Fast!
Not ... half-fast!

Goodnight, Gracie.

 

I've synched carbs with the YICS tool, and prefer the way my bike runs after synching w/o it.

I fully appreciate the YICS system, acknowledge the fact that it works, but don't see much point in dwelling on this.

You do yours your way, I'll do mine as I see fit.

Why the attack?. I made no criticism of you, nor did I state that using the YICS tool is wrong; only that the carbs can be synched without the downsides you seem to focus on.

 

No one person is singled-out.
My "You" isn't Y-O-U.
It's "You ... out there."

My comments are intended to include all who disregard the instruction manual and employ an alternative method for synchronizing carbs on a YICS engine without using the special tool and claim the job has been done right.

Those of us who are talented enough to service our own motorcycles may do, as you say, make any adjustments for personal preferences without using the tool. Doing as you please with your personal property is your right and a wonderful thing.
You're right!
How can you be be wrong if you have your own bike running just exactly the way you like it?

Personally, I think that accepting compensation for tuning the bikes of others places us in a different category and our personal preferences cannot supersede the established procedure for the job.

That's why when I tune-up somebody else's bike I let them watch ... even participate.

At the end of the day, the best we can hope for is to have everyone smiling; anyway!

 

Hey Bosozoku, you see Gary the retard much? I hear he works at Burgerville. I was through there on vacation last Aug. and didn't see him around.

 

In a nutshell....
With the YICS not blocked off, there is a common "link" to all four carbs which interferes with singling each one out for fine adjustment. The idea is to block each carb off from the others so one adjustment does not affect the rest, and vice versa. I believe this would also be the best way to Colortune, though I haven't tried it yet (just got the Colortune).
For what it's worth, my brother worked for a Yamaha dealer in the early eighties-said they never used the tool even though they had it. As for me and my homemade tool, I'll continue to use it. A lot of wisdom in your post, Rick.

 

All points taken, and the design of YICS with an open porting chamber across the intake tract, Mixing the fuel air mix going in each cylinder seems the necesistation for using the tool to properly adjust each carbs idling window.

That's basically all it is, adjusting each butterfly to be at near the exact (crack) open as the other carbs butterfly, measured through it's port vacuum so they're all even. When the vacuum across all 4 is properly adjusted, the fuel for the idle circuit is an automatic syphon from the immulsion tube in the bowl to the top of the carb and it's (leak by) of the mixture screws needle tip.

Here's what I believe, the tool is necessary if the 3 adjuster screws between the 4 carbs, has all those butterfly's all greatly apart from the same setting if the carbs were reassembled by someone who really moved all screws and settings possibly while having all the carbs apart. And not by eye sight (with some daylight behind the throat bodies) adjusting them to visually be very close looking to each other again, before mounting up the carbs.
The reason being, only the initial middle screw will be adjusted to a holding position, keeping a crack in the butterfly, and all other carbs are to be held at that position when adjusted. If not you have the potential of 1 carb butterfly being completely closed and that cylinder NOT running when idling. As in 2 or 3 cylinders doing the idling and 1 cylinder not contributing.

Now the crossovers of the YICS are very small, your not going to have a large contributing factor for 1 carbs fuel/air mix running properly, it to be able to contribute much to keeping another cylinder running for that cylinders carb not idling or it's butterfly closed off.

Therefore I believe, and my tuning has told me for years, as long as when you have the carbs off, adjust each so that crack of the butterfly is very close to each other carb, then put them on, at that point I think the importance of the YICS tool is lessoned. I for one have never had a YICS tool and have always gotten my bikes running beautifully.

If you think about it, the crossover's of the Vmax's Vboost system does basically the same thing, and they don't require a tool to seperate the small crack still open some, even when Vboost is closed, that is across the intakes also sharing (a tad) of fuel / air mix. Only that the Vboost is in and part of an extra intake throat body, not actually in the head like the YICS.
But the Vboost contributes to crossover feeding the engine when open, where the YICS's not really contribution, but mixing of the fuel/air between carbs is very very tiny.

Also note for guys that don't have a YICS you could (of course may still be cheaper as building the following) but, carbs "or more or less, they're vacuum Sync" can be set off the bike with a simple box you build, connect a shop vacuum too, and on the other side make 4 pieces of 2" PVC sealed to box and stickout out, you can hose clamp to your 4 carbs, this is basic home made flow benching and really simple to make, now sync while you have a flow going through the carbs.

 

Wow I never thought about that Russell. Has anybody had any experience with the bench sync? seems like it would be a good and easy way to do it. If anybody has doen or tried it let me know please

 

ok i guess that answered my question, now on to religion and politics
but first i want to hear about Gary the retard

 

Can you synch properly without taking the carbs off and not using a tool? I dont have a YICS bike.

 

I have just done all this on my 550 and set the carbs up off the bike so the butterflys were all just about open the same at the closed postion.I then fitted them to the bike and set up with the Yics tool.I was not that far off with the set up and just tweeked the carbs a bit to get a smooth idle.When i removed the Yics tool i kepted the vac gauges on to see what effect the tool had and belive it does all it's work just to set the balance at tickover though i could be wrong.

 

I feel like that guy on the TV Commercial ... who is trying to explain the finer points of his life's research ... by referring to the data, displayed on the chart on the easel ...

and all the laser pointers from the audience in the room are focused right on my crotch.

Everybody NEEDS a good Y-I-C-S-'ing!

Like anything really, really good -- that you have done to you ... the right way ... with some finesse ... once ... by somebody ... who really KNOWS how to do it right ... having it done some other way ... might leave you feeling a little frustrated or disappointed with the outcome.

Your continuation of this ridiculous analogy goes here:

~~>

 

if you don't have a YICS bike there is no need for a YICS tool
for any noobs, no apologies needed

link
take a look here,then you'll have lots of questions and maybe a answer or two

 

Russ, your homemade flow bench intrigues me. I think I'll build one..........because I can. Mountains have been scaled for lesser reasons.

 

On this type of flow bench I got to sit in with some other real performance gooroos. They had an anemometer air flow gauge mounted inside the box along with 1 vacuum gauge taking a reading from in the box, and 4 other gauges connected to the carb bodies. Butterfly's wired wide open, they'd took initial measurements to find where the stock carbs flowed at their maximum flow. Steve had already found that the 35mm Mikini's off the Vmax could be bored to 39mm, and still retain enough groove for the slide. He machine bored the carb venturi's to 39mm.

I wish I could remember the actual flow numbers increases, but I do remember Steve's Dyno improvement. He's a hell of a tuner and had his stock engine'd Vmax with the stage 7 carb kit and same Kerker I have on mine, running 138 horsepower before the carb bore, and gained 14 more horsepower now having 39mm stock carbs, all retuned again. His still remains the highest horsepower Vmax with a stock engine I've seen anyone get. Of our local Vmax group we have a guy in Tucson that has a 1260 kit in his Max, and steve's would outrun him in the 1/4 mile with a stock engine.

It just shows you how much more you can get out of any stock bike setup without buying a ton of aftermarket performance stuff , carbs etc.
It's made me wonder if the 34mm's on my Maxim could go to 38mm? I don't know, but I'm not going to screw with old Hoss, he runs good enough.

If I had access to machining stuff I'd love to do that as I know it can be done. But mine's got the jumping out of 2nd problem now so, kinda pointless. I don't have the time or desire to tear it apart I have 3 car projects going already so I may sell my Max, I have my eye's on a new ZX14 anyway.

 

Ricks right! If you want to fix the bike (a YICS engine bike) and do it right then you need the YICS tool!

If you just want to screw around with doing things your own way.... more power to you.

But for your sake Rick, there are those of us who do use the tool and do understand what youre saying! and agree with you!

Right is right....... If 1000 people are doing wrong does that make it right? NO it still is wrong.

Back to my motto, fix it right the 1st time!

 

My personal experience is tune without the tool. If the engine is tuned correctly it is not necessary. All the YICS gallery does is equalise the vacuum under acceleration.

In simple terms it is a sealed gallery with the only air entering it is from a carb with weak vacuum. This vaccuum is then transferred to other carbs with more vacuum. The ONLY reason for using the tool is to allow for tuning faster as it eliminates the transfer of air between tubes.

If your carbs are all tuned and set the same then they are all running at an equal vacuum therefore there is NO transfer of air through the yics gallery as all carbs are pulling the same flow. Takes a bit longer without the tool but you are getting the same result.


Cmon Rick, Tell me I'm wrong. :twisted:

Just because it's in the manual doesn't mean it's compulsory. 8O


*Toddles off to look at what the manual says about seat belts in cars* :wink:

 

Hired_Goon is right, a few here get so preachy about manual methods it's almost silly.

The world of improvements is created by people who go outside the box, show a little ingenuity to develop new ways. It's how top fuelers have gone from 5000 hp to 7500 hp, it's Byron Hines coming up with head porting to develop more hp. You can't imagine how many heads they've junked in learning how to do it right, but there it is, the final results and available for you and I to buy. Same with car heads, cams etc etc etc.

It's how it's been proven following factory engine break in methods are ALL WRONG, they've proved and re-Dyno proved it, the best way to break in a new engine is run it hard from the start, the rings seat into the cylinders better, and the previous thinking of babying an engine for the first 6000 miles is wrong. Engines last far longer being broken in vigorously. Dragracers everywhere have learned this, and all this thinking outside the box is how we see improvement, not just following manuals and saying

"duh, well my brother Daryl and my other brother Daryl walked this way, so I'm going to walk this way." So forever your stuck with no improvements.
Expanding your thinking I guess is something a few in this group refuse to do and they dislike those of us who can help expand the open minded here to learn new ways of doing things. People who experiment is were we see improvement, just like most recently Cam companies are now offering new cams with what they call the 4 - 7 swap, changing the firing order on V8's between those cylinders creates a breathing improvement and better Hp.

Rick, I appreciate you being one of the more knowledgable people on here but you get very insulting to others having different ideals. You seem to oppose anyone new who actually may know something more then you that has different thinking to try and help the others seeking answers. Firstly I'm not the know all, King of XJ knowledge and neither are you, and I don't appreciate someone who acts that way which you seem to. I'd rather the knowledgable folks here combine their knowledge to help the lessor, then behave insulting. You can voice your views, but don't insult others views or tell us ** "Because you have spoken, it's rediculous for us lessor creatures to continue this thread" ** Godlike

 

I feel like Im reading a political debate.

It is really entertaining reading.

As far as my experiance goes, I have none so I cant say either way. But I do believe in doing what the manual says, so when I do tune up my ride I will be following the manual and go from there. There was a reason them engeniers and mechanics made them manuals...... or is there?

 

It's a good thing that we're kicking this YICS Tuning thing, and other issues, around in a Web site Internet Forum and not on the floor of a Convention Center ... because, this way nobody's leavin' in an ambulance.

Of the 14-hundred members; how many are in position to say that their bike is at the Zenith of fine-tuning? Not too many? But, we are working on that!

After we got a great number of bikes through an Electrical System Upgrade with NEW Fuse Panels, Alternator Brushes, Starter Brushes and Charging System care; we tackled the problem of getting Carbs Cleaned and back on the bike.

During Post Carb Overhaul Tuning we discovered the GENUINE benefit of ColorTuning. I was with the skeptics on that one until I ColorTuned MY bike with a borrowed ColorTune Plug.

I wrote a testimonial for ColorTuning on the Monday following my weekend Carb Clinic.

You CAN teach an Old Dog a new trick; but it don't make the dog any younger.

Those who have followed-along and solved nagging issues are getting-in some good times on bikes that had some haunting issue that brought them in the door.

Now, we're fine-tuning.

People are getting ready to tune-up their own bike's ... having cleaned their own carbs and are learning how to tweak.
Bike's that wouldn't idle before are close to purring because we convinced
people to dig-out the anti-tamper plugs and add darn-near a whole turn OUT on Pilot Screws.

YICS Tools got ordered.
Carb Sync gauges got brung by Santa.

We're going to tune-up our own bikes before the season begins in earnest.

We've been doin'-it "Old School"
We've been havin' a bit of fun getting it done the Old School Way; too.

We got YICS Engines.
For us ... there's ONLY ONE right-way!

 

Hang on Rick!!! Your using a colourtune????? That's not in the manual!!!!!

The manual specifically states not to adjust the mixture screws. So are you saying the manual shouldn't be adhered to exactly????


YICS tool was invented by yamaha and put as a requirement in the manual because it was something else they could sell you. Everyone knows dealers make more from spares than they do from selling the bike.

It is a simplistic tool to speed up a simple process, That is all. If you don't have the means to buy one or the tools/skills to build one then it is not the end of the world. You can still tune your bike to perfection without it.

I tune my bike to ride. Don't ride with a YICS tool in it.

 

Wait a minute ... I'll try to help you get back on the tracks.

Yamaha didn't sell YICS Tools. They provided them to dealerships.
The Dealerships used the tool, as recommended, through-out the hay-day.

The majority of bikes serviced at the dealerships from 1983 - on ... we're "Re-adjusted." The Anti-tamper Plugs pulled and Pilot Screws re-adjusted using the Yamaha Exhaust Gas Analyzer that plugged into ports at the bottom of each header pipe.

When the EGA Machine couldn't be hooked-up to bikes with frozen-shut EGA Bolts ... the era of Guess-ti-ment began.

Bikes that didn't idle had the Anti-Tamper Plugs pulled and the Screws Adjusted to 2.75 - 2.85 Turns out ... and REPLUGGED.

25 Years later, we have the Colortune Plug.
We KNOW everybody and their brother played with the Mixture Screws.
How many have we seen with frozen stripped-off Pilot Screw heads.
I lost count.

What I am pleased about is how the discussion is centered on fine-tuning, for a change ... and, not about how to really complicate your life draining a third of a cup of oil out of the Middle Gear Gallery.

 

Wow, a heated topic! My favorites. So here goes:

1) although the Yammy manual didn't specify using a colortune, that may be because it specified using a gas spectrum analyzer for fine-tuing, which of course most of don't have access to----so a colortune is the next best thing (perhaps/maybe/probably better than "by ear", at least for most people). Perhaps the colortune plug wasn't even readily available (or known to Yamaha) at that point in history. Or maybe an OEM like Yamaha felt it had to rely on only the absolutely most precise method of tuning generally available to them---pesky federal regs and all that---and therefore determined that the absolutely best way was an analysis of exhaust gas products (which is probably true, since Yamaha was specifying a method of tuning for Lowest Emissions within an acceptable range of performance, rather than for Best Performance within an unknown range of emissions---although I realize there is a certain overlap in those goals).

2) I believe that the YICS tool is useful for getting a better "fine-tune". It allows the isolation of each cylinder/carb unit from all the others, therefore allowing a precise setting of each unit individually, without the influence of other carb/cylinder units to "balance" the weaker or stronger units. Note that the purpose of the YICS system is NOT to "balance" the carb systems, although it supposedly does function in that manner anyway, whether by design or not.

Ideally, we want each cylinder/carb unit to be both equal to all the others in term of efficiency and effectiveness RELATIVE TO THE OTHERS. This allows each unit to pull an equal amount of weight in the engine---important for both engine longevity, efficiency, and performance (both output performance and emissions performance).

Doing so means "tuning down" certain units to match the "lowest common denominator" carb/cylinder unit.

3) Now that each unit is working equally hard, the removal and "balance" achieved by the YICS passage allows for operating variations to be better controlled than by NOT HAVING THE BALANCING EFFECT OF THAT PASSAGE. Under the variety of operating conditions, situations, and loads that an engine experiences...and thus what each INDIVIDUAL cylinder "sees"....it is useful to minimize the effect of such variances on the overall engine, and thus one of the effects of the YICS chamber.

4) Interestingly, Yamaha states only the following about the YCIS system in their marketing materials. Note that there is no reference to emissions or to carb synchronization, etc......it's merely a performance enhancement feature that has nothing to do with better performance via a "balanced" intake system:

"...the Yamaha Induction Control System (YICS) adds power in the low to mid-range and delivers about a 10-percent increase in fuel efficiency. YICS is a secondary port cast into the cylinder head, linking the main induction tracts. It brings the secondary charge into the main tract at an angle so that it mixes with the main flow of fuel and the mixture is swirled completely around the combustion chamber, thus resulting in more complete cylinder filling, which leads to more power and less fuel consumption."

5) I'm not real sure what Yamaha means when they say a "secondary charge"......or if there really is such a thing, other than the intake of air created by this YICS passageway.

From reading the above Yamaha explanation, it seems that the motivations of the engineers were to create this "secondary charge" and inject it into the main intake flow at an angle (to create additional "swirl" and cylinder-fiiling potential), and YICS is how they went about doing so. The "balance" issue was secondary (or perhaps not even a consideration or an issue, good or bad), and the YICS tool was now needed to do a "proper synch"....each unit working equally hard (same as in the "old days" before a YICS passage existed)......


Anyone else have other ideas?

 

How about this:

Seeing as how all four intakes are fed from the same machined port ... how about one of you hot-rod guys comin'-up with a way to mount a Banjo fitting and a line to a healthy supply of NOS!

 

P.S. that was funny!

 

It's funny in reading what the "YAMAHA Engineers" want to jumble up all the Yippity Yap on something that's supposed to make sense or serve a function, it's like a salemens methodology. Someone saying "don't the developers / engineers do all this for a reason and write the manuals for a reason.

If you'll remember that Good Old Anti-Dive System found on the Seca's and a few others that was supposed to do something, and really didn't!
I remember reading about them scrapping the Anti-Dive because it seriously didn't do Jack she-ite, when they brought the FJ back in 89' and finally had the 17" front 3 spoke hollow wheel the FZR had, I remember reading the journalists commenting that Yamaha admittedly found the Anti-Dive system useless as well as the Journalist hated the additions to the fork legs.

We have to remember they experiment too, sometimes what they dream up works, sometimes is useless, and very likely their service suggestions are goofy. I also think they certainly want to sell you their service tools etc. that are over priced, some necessary, some not, but hey, wouldn't you design in any other money makers you could come up with too?

Don't you just love that now you have to have a special tool just to remove the radiator or transmission hoses on new cars, GM's I know. I mean, where did they prove the basic hose clamp was a dismal failure ?????

 

I've run my beast happily before I had a YICS tool but the tool does make a difference in the behavior once it is finally used. My two cents, if it works go for it, you have nothing to loose.

 

A little boy in th back row puts his hand up and asks the famous question "So is this going to be on the test?"

Good info.

 

So did anybody answer this question. :lol:

 

I guess he's not around. Maybe he's got the flu.

 

My .02 - This is a minor- minor issue in the grand scheme of things (XJ World)
IMHO.
Both camps have good points to support their hypothesis.
Do what works for you and move on to enjoy the fruits of your labor.
Perhaps we should just agree to disagree.

 

Well said.

 

Cease fire!

 

How can you wave the white flag when you have four soldiers that need to conquer Carb-Sync Hill?! You have the four of them lined up side by side, arms interlocked, ready to to start the long trek up.

#1 is fit - a little too fit. He's obviously been hitting the gym in his off-duty hours, and easily overwhelms the other three.
#2 is skinny and weak. He barely eats and never hits the gym.
#3 is very fit. He eats right and has ideal muscle tone.
#4 is fat and slow. He eats all the wrong foods all the time, and doesn't work out.

As a team, with their arms interlocked, they go through the mess hall eating what they want and as much or as little as they like; and at the gym they get through all the workout stages because the fit soldiers make up for the unfit. Together they will conquer Carb-Sync Hill in good time. But imagine the possibilities if they were to be individually trained and put on a balanced diet so that they are all equal in strength and endurance. Once united again as a team, they would flat out stomp the competition.

[YICS tool in - overfit/skinny/fat carbs out]

Z

 

Cool perspective Z, I like it!

 

Robert, your such a moderator