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TIP: Oil Filter Housing Bolt Removal SUCCESS

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by omalley576, May 10, 2012.

  1. omalley576

    omalley576 Member

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    So I've been fighting with what I have learned to be a common problem on these bikes due to overzealous torque-monsters for POs (or current owners...).

    My PO installed the spring on the wrong side of the filter element. One side of the filter element is concave and the spring goes on this side. Since he put it on the other side he must've decided he needed to over-tighten the housing to ensure a proper seal. If he weren't ignorant and didn't lack in resourcefulness, he'd have researched the proper method and installation. He also lost the washer. He probably discarded it on purpose, thinking it would help him snug things up. But that assumes he has the capacity to think. If he thought enough to remove the washer, he should have thought enough to put the spring on the other side. I'm bitter.

    The end result is that the bolt on my oil filter housing was seriously stuck. Learn from my mistakes and success.

    1) Penetrating spray is pointless. The threads for this bolt are so deep inside, you will never get to them. And those threads are swimming in oil 24/7. Unless they have been cross-threaded the entire way in, they are loose. Penetrating spray MAY help reduce friction between the flange under the bolt head and the filter housing, but if the bolt is on their so tight that nothing will budge, then it's likely too tight for the penetrating oil to get in there, anyway. Don't waste the oil or your time.

    2) Remove your exhaust headers on at least one side. I would suggest the right side of the bike (right side as you sit on it, not as you are looking at it while changing the oil).

    3) If your bolt head is not yet rounded: ALWAYS use a 6-point socket head, 12-points do not have as much edge grip and are more likely to round the head. If you even suspect that you are going to have a tough time, I would recommend getting an impact driver (not an air impact wrench, a driver is something you hit manually with a hammer, it impacts the bolt and turns at the same time).

    4) If your bolt head is rounded: Go STRAIGHT to a pipe wrench. The bolt is already done for, expect to replace it. Do not waste your time with making new bolt faces, welding on nuts, hacksawing a slot, employing impact drivers, left hand drills, easy outs, torches (could actually make things worse, anyway), or any other measure. Trust me. Go STRAIGHT to the pipe wrench. I repeated that on purpose. Buy one if you have to. Just trust me. Make sure you install the pipe wrench on the bolt properly. If you are looking at the bolt head, with the handle of the pipe wrench to your left, the mouth should face open down. Tighten the adjusting collar and wiggle the wrench as you do to achieve the tightest fit prior to turning. Make sure your wrench is backed up as far right (clockwise) as you can so you have as much room to turn lefty-loosey (counter clockwise) as possible. Once you begin turning the pipe wrench it will grip harder and harder. If your wrench handle is long enough, and your will to win strong enough, you will break the bolt free.

    5) Buy a new bolt with the larger head, or buy the kit to convert your engine to accept the can-style of oil filter.

    6) Dance the mother ****ing happy dance. You just won a major victory in the "this should have been an easy job, but some dummy before me (maybe even myself) turned this simple task into a fight for freedom and holiness."

    7) Assuming you kept the old filter housing and got a new bolt, then make certain you put the filter element, new o-ring (get a new o-ring for the housing), spring, and spring washer all back in the right direction and order. Consult a blowup diagram from any of the many parts vendors or just about any repair manual to see the proper order. And, PLEASE get a freaking torque wrench and make certain you apply the correct amount of torque specified for this bolt. No more. That spec is permanently cast into the housing. If you apply anymore you, or the next owner, will come to hate and curse you. Do NOT apply thread lock, thread seal, or anti-sieze to the bolt. You risk getting it into your oil system and doing so will accomplish nothing at all as your bolt is swimming in oil all day long and never near anything that would allow it to corrode or seize. If it did... you have MUCH bigger problems on your hands, anyway, and the anti-seize still will not help you.

    Torque Specification for Oil Filter Housing Bolt:

    1.500 kg-m
    10.85 ft-lbs
    130.2 in-lbs
    14.71 N-m


    There are many reasons engineers specify torque values. Do not underestimate their training, education, and experience. Follow this advice. Or risk anything from petty annoyances to turning your bike into a parts store.
     
  2. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    The most incredible part of the whole thing?

    Look closely at the oil filter housing. Right above the bolt flange is a little number cast into it.

    It says "1.5kg-m"

    But nobody understands what that means or even notices, apparently.
     
  3. LVSteve2011

    LVSteve2011 Member

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    What's that work out to be in American Fitz?
     
  4. moellear

    moellear Member

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    google it --->1.5 kg m to ft lb

    1.5 (kg m) = 10.8495208 ft pound
     
  5. adrian1

    adrian1 Active Member

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    Goddam,you know the most IN-credible part of the whole dang thing?

    You'all look closely at the goddam oil filter housing. Right abuve the bolt flange is a lil ol number cast right on into it.

    It says "1.5kg-m"

    Well I'll tell ya.... nobody understands wut that means or even notices, apparently.
     
  6. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Oh, ha ha.

    But let's give some credit to the OP; the answer to Steve's question is in his initial post:

    I always just set the wrench to 11 ft/lb.
     
  7. adrian1

    adrian1 Active Member

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    Revenge is sweet!

     
  8. Bushy

    Bushy Active Member

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    ....g'd evening adrian ... :) yer obviously it in was in th fine print and it went unnoticed.
     
  9. omalley576

    omalley576 Member

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    Hey, give me some more credit, Fitz! I also pointed out that the torque spec is permanently cast into the housing!!! ;)
     
  10. LVSteve2011

    LVSteve2011 Member

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    I'm so sorry Fitz I failed to notice that Omalley posted it. I wasn't trying to be an A-hole.
     
  11. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Nobody thought you were.
     
  12. fintip

    fintip Member

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    I had a friend come over to teach them how to do basic maintenance on their bike, and they had a much smaller bolt on their oil filter housing than mine--I think hers was 12mm? Mine's 17, if I remember right. Which one is normal?--anyways, hers stripped right out when I tried to take it off, like it was made of butter.

    Before we move further on trying to remove the bolt, should she go buy a replacement bolt? What are the specs for the bolt needing to be purchased, can you find that at an auto parts store, or do I need to order that from Len?
     
  13. mtnbikecrazy55

    mtnbikecrazy55 Active Member

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    Mine is a 12mm for the filter housing as well.

    I torque it to 11 ft. lbs, and never had an issue with it.
     
  14. omalley576

    omalley576 Member

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    12mm is the standard for most of these bikes. Some had the larger 17mm bolt, I think. Chacal has the stock replacement and a larger one. The larger one a is what you want for a replacement. About $15. It's not just a bolt, it is also the pressure bypass valve. And even if you wanted to forego the bypass valve, a replacement with the same shoulder and thread length would be virtually impossible to locate. If you found one, it would cost as much.

    You can reuse this bolt if you can get it out. I would slightly under torque it and go ahead and use the anti-seize. Order the replacement now and replace it the day it comes in.
    Of course, you're better off just waiting for the replacement before changing the oil.

    Let her know this is a common problem on these bikes, or she might not trust you for more repair advise or lessons.

    And make sure you teach her the importance if properly torquing any bolt.

    And make sure you put the parts back in the right order.
     
  15. LVSteve2011

    LVSteve2011 Member

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    Fintip, the oil pressure relief valve has a very important function, if you were to put in a straight bolt, none of you oil would get filtered for one thing. And if the filter gets so clogged that no oil can flow is when the relief valve opens; the engineers wanted the engine to continue receiving oil even if it's dirty.
     
  16. fintip

    fintip Member

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    Right, I vaguely remembered from my oil filter housing change that it was a special bolt, that's why I asked--wanted to know if I should go ahead and have it ordered because it's special.

    Another wonderful thing my PO did... How nice. :)

    I've definitely talked to her about torquing bolts properly, made sure to go over that when we were putting in her spark plugs ("ALWAYS hand tighten first"). I'll let her know what I found out about the bolts, I was curious about ours being different. Funny that I never saw anyone mention this until now. 12 is tiny for that!

    Has anyone here tried just hammering on an 11 socket? Gross, but it's a trick that does the job. Might be hard to do it in that space, though. That was my first thought.

    We went ahead and changed the oil because she should do that no matter what--if the oil filter is clogged, it's not the end of the world, because she has clean oil right now, and the engine is in good shape, and I had read that there was a bypass valve.

    I'll get her to order that bolt, though. My mechanic's co-op is where I'll probably get help getting it off, he might have the pipe wrench or some other ideas, but I want her to have the correct bolt in advance so she can drive away.

    $15 is steep for a bolt though! That's life for rare specialty machined parts, I guess.
     
  17. omalley576

    omalley576 Member

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    The bypass valve, to the best of my knowledge (and someone correct me if I am wrong) serves no purpose during normal operation. Every engine with an oil filter has a bypass valve. Period. And the bypass valve does nothing until your filter becomes so clogged that the oil can not go through it fast enough (or without tearing it). This added pressure in the oil activates the bypass valve allowing oil to continue to flow.

    I believe (but could be wrong) that if you did just replace this with a bolt that would fit, that your filter and the oil would continue doing their jobs just fine.

    Honestly, if you KNEW you were going to be a good, careful owner, there is no reason for the bypass valve at all.

    Then again, if a large enough particle found its way in there, or if the oil pump managed to spike the oil pressure momentarily, even then the bypass valve might be necessary.

    My thoughts: I'd never go without. But I *think* you could without worry, in a pinch, temporarily, while driving conservatively until you properly replaced the bolt.

    The bolt should be easy enough to remove. From my research, the problem is never the threads, it's always an over-torqued bolt. The pressure between the housing and the bolt is too great for the amount of surface area the head and flange have in contact with the housing. What you need are two important things: grip and torque. That is all. If someone wants to drill it out or shave down the flange... move along.

    Take off two of the exhaust headers, preferably the ones on the right side of the bike (as you sit on it). They can be tough. The nuts on the heads and the one on the clamp came off very easily, despite the visible rust. The hard part was getting the header out from the 2-into-1 pipe. The rust inside had increased the friction.

    LOTS of penetrating spray, and lots of wiggling. More spray. More wiggle. Repeat. Repeat. Repeat.

    Once they are both off, use a pipe wrench (go ahead and buy one, they should be $10-$20 and they come in handy for so many things). Pipe wrenches were designed to grab harder as you turn, so long as you put them on right. Plumbers deal with more rusted, stuck, frozen and stubborn fasteners than anyone!

    Get that wrench on there good and start applying some F * d = torque. If it's not turning, use a section of pipe with an ID large enough to go over the pipe handle. It should be short enough that you can turn the bolt without hitting the ground before the wrench is properly set on the bolt (I could only get my pipe wrench on and set at an angle that was pointing towards the ground). But you want the pipe as long as will allow. Since each of us can apply a set amount of force, the only way we can increase torque is through distance.

    You don't need a mechanic. Unless he's a buddy and will let you use his shop tools for free. In which case, that might come in handy.

    I know in my case that the over-torquing happened because the PO assembled the spring and filter backwards, forcing him to torque everything more in order to stop the leaking. If you have to consult a blow-up diagram, do it.

    While you are ordering that bolt from Chacal, go ahead and order a dozen of the crush washers for the oil drain bolt. Almost no one does, but these should be replaced with every oil change. They are prone to tearing and leaving particles behind, some that could enter your engine when you reinsert the bolt. This washer is your gasket seal. Once you've crushed it once it won't crush so well again, making the seal less tight. They are $1. You spend WAY more on oil and even more than that on a filter. Spend what would likely amount to about 4% of your total cost on one of these.
     
  18. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    That's because it's NOT just a bolt. It's a hollow, bolt-shaped housing that contains a check valve ball and spring, held in place with a pin. It's an assembly, and they are widely available.

    That's pretty much the going price for that part.
     
  19. fintip

    fintip Member

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    All great info, thanks.

    The mechanic is running a co-op, and he only does japanese bikes, mostly old ones. So it's basically free (donations welcome, $3 recommended) to use his tools and get his help walking through stuff. It's partially just to get my friend in contact with this guy (he's a great mechanic in general, one of the few I've ever felt I could trust; even though I do most everything on this bike myself, when I needed a stud for my exhaust covers that had snapped, he just gave me two spares he had, no money necessary), and partially just to get her in an environment to be working on her own bike when I'm gone. She's up for it, just needs the right people around her.
     
  20. wwj750

    wwj750 Member

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  21. Metal_Bob

    Metal_Bob Active Member

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    The larger "bolt" has an oring groove, passes thru the filter cover, spring and filter AND has a thread size much larger than it's hex head.

    Where are you going to find a basic bolt to ever replace it and not allow leaks?

    The small bolt is the magnetic tipped drain plug.

    [​IMG]


    Anyone know the torque setting for drain plug off top of head? I used 11 ftlb but not riding yet.
    Edit: Found it 31 ftlb for drain plug.
     
  22. omalley576

    omalley576 Member

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    One could seal the bolt, axially, under the head, instead of radially as the O-ring currently sits. NOT RECOMMENDING THIS AT ALL!!! Just saying, if you were in a pinch and you were going to be good and do it right ASAP, it COULD work. Maybe. In theory. Not recommending.

    But like you and others are saying, this isn't just a bolt. Heck, it's not a bolt at all!!!
     

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