Uh oh...picked up a Turbo Seca

So I was minding my own business, perusing craigslist in the Central MA Area, doing searches on various old motorcycle model names and prefixes (xj, xs, seca, maxim, cb, gs, gn, kz, gpz etc). My cube mate was looking for a motorcycle the week before but picked one up over thanksgiving. Anyway, I'm minding my own business when I see in the Local Results/Nearby Area section this:

1982 Yamaha Turbo Seca...6k miles...and pics taken by someone WHO ACTUALLY KNOWS HOW TO USE A CAMERA! And it isn't the one that's been up for month's asking almost 2 grand...he's only asking $250! Of course, it isn't in the best shape, but the pics detailed that.

Here's the low-down:
1. It's complete...or at least I think it is. Actually it's a little more than complete. It's got all the plastics with good paint, although some mounting tabs may need repair. It has two extra of some of the big plastic. It's got a spare set of carbs, alternator, starter, coils, regulator, and clutch cover.
2. The engine is in the frame, along with the turbo and exhaust, and it rolls. The open end of the turbo pointing up was exposed.
3. Seeing as it only has 6k miles, and has so many extra parts, it's obviously been sitting a while as someone's project that never got done. In fact the guy who sold it to me acquired it a few months ago from the original owner, but new he couldn't get around to it (he actually had other motorcycle projects that were going pretty well). It's going to need complete carb rebuild, brakes, bearings, etc.

My question is, what needs to be done with the fuel pump/turbo, as I haven't encountered these on my (ongoing) journey with my xj750 seca. Do I need to rebuild them? Should I even worry about the valves?

Also, after getting a little worried when I found out that there was no Haynes manual on this bike, I got really excited when I found out that the factory manual, supplements, and even owner's manual could all be found on the xjcd!

Anyway, any advice on where to start with my new turbo would be appreciated. I figure I want to get this one running first, then do all the other fun stuff.

Thanks!

 

What a fun thing to find on Craigslist! You might check with Len (xjforever) to see if he can get you a factory printed manual for the little beastie. I rode with a group the other day and one of the guys had a turbo Seca. It was definitely a goer.

I'm currently minding my own business regularly on the Portland and Seattle Craigslist sites looking for a 14' or 15' DuroBoat to load on top of my F150 pickup with the electric Eide boat loader I discovered for $100 while minding my own business on Seattle Craigslist. Retail for the loader is $1550. Vive Craigslist!

Loren

 

Got bit by the Turbo bug, too, eh? I'm fixing one up for a friend... Strange little creatures!

At 6K on the clock, your Turbo should be in good shape. Make sure the turbine shaft is not seized up and doesn't have a whole lot of play (it will wobble just a little bit, since it's a floating bearing setup). Make sure the waste gate valve moves freely. Also, check the fins of the turbine impellers for damage. Hook up the fuel pump to a feeder bottle and power it up... Run some fresh gas through it, maybe with a bit of Seafoam. If you don't see pulverized pump innards coming out, it's probably fine. The throttle shaft seals in the carbs are probably toast. Len (Chacal) has new ones available.

 

Sounds like it's been sitting for some time. I'd make sure the check valves in the oil supply and return for the Turbo are not stuck and clean them before you spin it up. The Turbo needs that oil for lubrication and cooling. Be very careful taking the bolts off these lines and dont break the flanges on them. Might shoot them with some Aero-Kroil to soak while your doing those carbs.

Looks like the RH muffler missing, a common thing. At least on mine. However I found a good set of mufflers for $50 along with a power-up kit and another pressure regulator for $30 just before I sold it.

I repaired the mounting tabs with aluminum strips for that seat fairing.

Nice find though! I had gottten mine in alot worse shape for $300 a couple years ago.

 

I have a picked over parts bike if you are missing anything.
Good luck with your new toy.

 

Thanks for all the advice. I won't be diving right away into it (still have the 750 Seca to finish) but I can't wait.

Luckily I really don't think it's missing anything except the turn signal lenses, but we'll see what actually works as I get into it. After the 750, I fully expected to rebuild brakes (one caliper is frozen and draped over the frame) carbs, and clean up all electrical contacts. The mufflers are both there, original with the end caps too. They do have some rust pitting through the black paint.

 

Good luck with your Turbo, I hope we can share rebuild info!

Eric

 

The fuel system is "unusual" on these bikes. Everything has to work perfectly or you will have problems. And they don't like to sit. Once it's done, ride it on at least a semi-regular basis. I have had 5 of them, counting the one I have now. I will try to help in any way I can.

 

I’m jealous! GOOD find!!

I called this person :roll:

http://www.collectorcarsandbikes.com/di ... ey2=f_make

in May this yr.

He got upset when I asked if it ran (hay you never know).
He started talking bad to me when I asked if he knew the last time it ran.

When I told him this conversation wasn’t going too well and reintroduced myself he got a little nicer.

When I asked about the title he started getting upset again.
When I asked about a bill of sale he started talking bad again.

Anybody click on that link?

HE’s STILL GOT IT!!. Got him down to $400.00
but by that time I had lost ALL interest in HIS turbo!!

ab

 

I would be leary of that turbo. There is no plastic other than the tail trim, the clutch cover looks to be wrong. I do not believe its supposed to be shiny like it is, supposed to be black. Someone might have painted over the engine since you can not make out any detail on the crank covers. Almost wonder if it is a normally aspirated motor instead of the turbo motor.

I have really liked the turbo seca, Get looks wherever a motorcycle gathering is. Makes for a great sport tourer, but like the others have said you must drive it weekly. Or you will run into trouble. Riding it weekly means putting at least 10 miles on it to keep the carbs from gumming up and the oil fresh. Any help I can be, I have two of the Turbo's, one is my daily driver and the other is its parts bin

Sean

 

Well it'll be some time before I get to the turbo, it's getting cold up here and my pond's frozen, so I've got to keep it in skating condition and get the snowblowers ready for the blizzard that's supposed to come tomorrow. But since my leisure reading now includes the factory manual, I'd like to share an excerpt from page 5:

"The XJ650 turbo computer monitor system features:
1. Easy-to-see pictographic displays; a further improvement upon the XJ750 computer monitor."

I guess "easy-to-see" may be a loose translation for obtrusive or conspicuous, or sticks out like a sore thumb. At least this one will be wrapped in a fairing :roll:

 

Well, almost 2 years later, and I'm finally getting around to this bike. I've moved twice, crashed, fixed my crashed bike, and fixed another I got in trade and plan to sell. Finally, this turbo might have it's day.

Keep in mind, I plan on a full resto, minus paint (except maybe some small parts). Question is how do I start?

I just compression tested it, got 110-120-130-120. Now this is an 8.2-1 compression ratio, and the manual says 114-121. Should I be worried? #1 and #4 has some corrosion on the plugs, so I'm sure those valves were left open. Also,#1 was around 90, and #4 was initially at 100 or so, but after spinning the motor around a bit and testing again, they picked up.

Also, I noticed that there was no oil in the sight window after I did the compression test. When I got the bike (2 years ago) I changed the oil, and filled it up to the top mark in the sight window. Does this mean that there's a stuck oil valve to the turbo?

I'm thinking I should I pull everything off the frame except the engine, clean everything up and reinstall with all new rubber bits.

 

I just read the entire thread again since the last time I read it was last year when I got my turbo. Glad to see it's finally made it to the front of the line!!!


"I'm thinking I should I pull everything off the frame except the engine, clean everything up and reinstall with all new rubber bits."

Exactly perfect way to start! Do NOT worry about the compression, it will increase once the engine is running again. Rings will very, very slowly revert to their relaxed state(which isn't perfectly round) when they aren't used. Typically, they will gain 3-5psi with renewed use.

Like the other guys said, go ahead and order the complete carb kits(including the shaft seals, fuel check valve seal etc) and be prepared to pull the rack and do a complete rebuild to them. Decide before you order if you are up to the job because that way, you can make arrangements with someone else to rebuild them for you. I've yet to see any 30 year old carb whose original rubber seals weren't on the verge of disintergration so it needs to be done so you won't have trouble down the road.

Also, take a peek at the valve clearences. I know it only had 6K on it but since valves tend to close as they wear, you don't want the heat buildup of a tight valve or 3.....the turbo runs HOT so it's a bit more important then a "regular" engine.

Congratulations! You'll have fun with this build, I did.....you're also in luck...there's a seller on fleabay asking some VERY fair pricing for his stuff....I just bought a 75 dollar part (perfect front fender)for 25...all I had to do was to write and ask. Mine looks great but was missing the 1x4 inch piece on the left side, like most of them are.

Post up if you need anything...you do have the turbo supplement, right? I can send it to you if you need it.

jeff

 

Dang, just noticed where you live....I had forgot we talked before and you're right up the beltway from my office. If you jammed up, I'll stop over....then you'll REALLY have problems<LOL>!!

jeff

 

Well I was actually reading this thread, and something BigFitz said has me a little worried. Spark plug #1 has some corrosion on the base ring, and #4 had a thick bubbly corrosion. So I'm a little concerned with the rings "scraping the corrosion off and getting stuck." It sat for a LONG time. Maybe I shouldn't worry with those numbers?

I will be adjusting the valves before I ever run the motor, and a full carb tear-down rack breaking will be in order. I've done a lot of this on my 750, so I'm not looking to cut any corners. I want to make sure the whole intake-engine-exhaust is 100% before firing it up and trying to troubleshoot.

The other concern I have is the oil level. I've read that oil valves that feed the turbo can get stuck open, and I have a feeling that I'll have to take care of this, since the level is now low, and it hasn't been leaking from anywhere.

I'll be soaking everything in Kroil this weekend, and start removing the exhaust after a coulpe of days. I'm really interested in some of the upgrades you did JeffK.

Also, I slept on the whole painting thing, and now I'm really interested in doing it up right. Problem is, I don't have a space that I can spray in the winter. I do have a detatched garage, but no power, so I'd have to figure out lighting and heat.

 

I use a 10 gauge contractor grade extension cord to run power to my shed in the winter.

I run the cord to a power strip then have a 4' florescent light that i ran some wire from with a plug on the end so I can just plug it in when I need light.

I run the 4' light, a ceramic heater, radio, and my laptop.

 

Problem is, the only outdoor outlet at the place I'm renting is on a light post, and the light has to be on. Not sure how much power I can run through that circuit before a breaker trips, and the breaker is in someone else's unit.

I'll figure something out. Maybe just paint with the door open and a propane heater in the daytime.

 

FYI----after running my engine, it can up to 15 minutes for the oil level to return to normal.....wierdest thing I ever saw but true...ok, maybe not the wierdest thing, that probably had to do with a naked woman, a pony and a goat wearing a rubber duck in Mexico but that's a whole different story....still, it takes a long time for the oil to come back down.

Honestly, I think I'd drop a tblspn of 10-40 into each cylinder and turn it over a few times with the plugs out and a towel placed over the head to catch any oil. You just want to throughly lube the walls and help "wash" and junk to the crank case since you'll be changing the oil and filter as part of your build. the 110-130 spread is wider then any decent mechanic wants to see but on a 4 cyl inline, spinning at 8500 rpm with turbo induction, it's importance lessens, not becomes greater so make the decision either way now if you'll plan on a total top end or not. Personally, I'd leave it alone but there are those who would probably insist on replacing the pistons/rings. The low miles has me believing that it will be ok once it starts running again.

That all said, it has two check valves, one you'll find when you remove the oil supply to the turbo at the filter housing. Its' a standard spring and ball assembly housed in the end of a bolt, careful removing this as the sheeth(4mm high plastic sleeve) can separate from the bolt. They are almost impossible to find anymore so if you see one come up on ebay, buy it....even if its 25 bucks delivered....buy it. You'll either need it now or later so it will be nice to have. I keep mine(extra one) on my "yamaha" shelf so I'll be able to find it when I need it. The second is actually inside the return section of the turbos oil pump. You will not see it unless you split the cases. Not to worry though since there is a convienient section of rubber hose on the oil return line where you can insert a small check valve it you find that it leaks!! MUCH easier and just as effective than splitting the cases.

Your build will probably include a turbo rebuild if you are going to run the 18psi that I run. Consider that the turbo shaft spins at 185,000 rpm.....and can reach speeds of 215,000rpm.Yes, you read that correctly....it spins in a "oil bearing" so clean oil is a must.....I change mine every 500 miles. the 130 bucks for the rebuild kit seemed reasonable considering the speeds that it spins but I can hook you up with a guy that sells just the actual rings for only a few bucks. I don't know anyone that has actually installed a set yet but he did a bunch of reaserch and found a place that sold him 50 sets pretty cheap over in China. Might be worth a try, but that's up to you.I bought a couple sets from him but I bought them more as a favor to him then because I planned on installing them.

jeff

 

Well I've made some progress the last two weekends. I soaked all of the exhaust hardware in kroil (except for a bolt or two that I couldn't see) and let it sit for a week. Every bolt that I soaked came off with ease. I used a wrench and hammer as an impact driver, but everything came off without incident.

I pulled the turbo and all of it's oil lines, and I didn't see ANY oil leaking from ANYWHERE. So that's a bit of a mystery that I'm going to have to solve, but it doesn't look like it's leaked out of any valves to the turbo.

The turbo and compressor impellers seem to spin smoothly without any play or resistance, but I don't know much about turbos. JeffK, maybe I can stop by with the turbo and you can tell me what you think of its condition. 18psi boost is mighty tempting.

I decided that since the bike has only 6k miles on it, and blows good compression, I'll go ahead and do it up nice. I've purchased a cheap propane heater for the garage and I'll get some lights and an extension cord, and paint this winter. We'll see if the little heater can keep the cold at bay, especially since it's an outdoor heater, I'll have to keep the door open. First test of my setup is going to be the headers and mufflers, and the little ducty things on top of the valve cover.

And speaking of exhaust, there was this nasty, rusty, milkish substance at the bottom of the collector. Should I do anything to flush this stuff out?

So I'm going to take it down to the frame, and repaint everything. Just going to stick with rattle cans, since I don't have power to run a compressor, and none of the paint should be coming in contact with gasoline anyway. Halfway done pulling off the wiring harness and removed everything off the rear of the frame. I'll need to start taking more pics as I build it up.

 

:lol: That's Funny!

 

You can do amazing things with the RIGHT rattle cans. Just be sure to stay away from anything with Rustoleum on the label for anything other than the frame. Mid-Atlantic in Clinton can mix you some real honest to goodness paint then inject it into a spray can for you! You just need to pick out the color. The ONLY clearcoat that you’ll want to use is “SprayMax 2K”. They make a Rapid Cut-in and a Glamour variety and either are amazing products. They are Urethanes so they are just like the finish on a car….and gas won’t eat through it the first time that you fill the tank. Take a look at these pics…..it looks like someone poured glass over this gas tank! It even looks better in person.
http://s1115.photobucket.com/albums/k54 ... G_5564.jpg

http://s1115.photobucket.com/albums/k54 ... G_5563.jpg

jeff

 

Well there wasn't any oil on the floor, but the turbo was covered in a gunked mixture of oil and road grime. It was wet, but I also had sprayed the area with kroil. I put at least 1.5 liters of oil trying to just "top it off" but I don't see that oil anywhere on the floor. And I've never seen any oil under this bike. Maybe my memory just fails me on the topping off 2 years ago.

As for paints, I'll be starting out with the frame, engine, wheels, and exhaust. Rusty's ok for those, or is there a better high temperature paint I should use? I've already made myself really sick spraying urethane 2k paints on a project I never finished. I actually bought a supplied air respirator so I could finish it, but again, I won't have the power in my garage to run it. How much gas really gets on the body work of a turbo seca? I'm no great painter, so I'm sure I'll be using a lot of paint and doing a lot of sanding.

Thanks for the advice on the exhaust. I have some Purple Power Degreaser that I'll use. Is there anything to coat it with to hold the rust at bay, like a phosphoric acid etcher, or is rust just the natural state of the inside of an exhaust system?

 

Brake caliper paint is rated at a higher temp.

It only takes a few drops to RUIN a good paint job. The PO of mine had the tins done professionally, but didn't have them cleared. Now due to a few drops from the nozzle, and the fact that I didn't wipe it off for 5 minutes, I'll be repainting my tins this winter.

It's the natural state of an exhaust system that never gets properly warmed up.

 

First, you can buy a respirator at HF for 15 bucks that will capture ALL fumes from the isocynoacrylics in the paint and you're right, that stuff can make you very, very sick. I repainted all the parts on my H1 and couldn't even smell the paint till I removed my mask....it form-fits very well for a 15 dollar mask.

The biggest problem with Rustoleum paints on a bike is not just that they melt when touched by gas, they also crack from the vibration. I learned the hard way and am just trying to save you some heartache but its completely up to you of course.

The inner walls of your headers are stainless steel (another difference from the regular 650) and they cannot rust. The collector is cast so again, rust isn't a factor. The mufflers however can and will rust but generally, the oil that blows by and gets burned will coat it so it won't rust....usually. The ONLY reason the right side rusts out is that there is no drain hole down near the point of connection. The end sticks way up in the air so the condensation and any rain simply drains to the base and sits there....till it makes its own drain hole!

Tsk's right on the money with his paint suggestions.....

jeff

 

Well Jeff, when it comes to HF, I follow the mantra, "If your life or income depend on it, don't get it at HF." A 3M respirator Organic Vapor Cartridge cost $30 at home depot. But when I last tried to paint this stuff, my pre-filter got clogged (and I had an AOSafety respirator, where the prefilter wasn't seperate). Every time I inhaled, I was breaking the seal on the mask and didn't realize it. I'd never had asthma before, but for a week or so after that, I kept getting tightening in my chest. And exposure to iso-cyanates is cumulative, it takes less exposure to draw the same reaction. Since I've already had a reaction, I wouldn't use anything but a supplied air respirator (And I bought one). I guess if I have to use it...but I'd love to be able to spray a primer and base that isn't as toxic, to limit my risk.

When it comes to the exhaust pipes, they have "freckled" rust on the front of the headers and all over the mufflers. I'd love to just restore the look of the pipes and keep the exterior from rusting. I love the semi-gloss of the original coating, does any one know what it is?

And brake caliper paint will hold up better than "flameproof" paint on the headers?

I have some time to plan this out, as I am focusing on tearing the bike down for now, and will be doing the prep and painting of the components in the winter.

 

It sounds like you've got everything well in hand....so good luck and have fun with your build!!

I don't know about your bike but mine came with a high gloss finish on the headers and pipes not a semigloss fwiw. It looked like a semi until I waxed them, then they matched the factory brochure.

jeff

 

Well made some more progress. Pulled the harness, electrical componenets, and the brakes off. Drained the oil and pulled the oil cooler off, so I think I just need to unbolt the engine and it's ready to come out. Leaving town for Thanksgiving, so it'll have to wait til after the holidays.

As I pull more stuff off the frame, I see little spots of rust here and there. I was thinking of wire wheeling just the rust spots, then scuff sanding the whole frame, primer, and paint. Probably with an automotive laquer (I've read elsewhere on the forum that the factory used lacquer for the frame). I'll admit that while I've read alot about painting, I don't have the experience and tools to do it professionally, but I'm going to try to do the best job that I can.

JeffK, maybe it is gloss, I'm not good at judging the glossness of paint. The freckled rust is very obvious, especially on the mufflers. Can brake caliper paint really stand up to the exhaust temps? Any flameproof paint seems to only come in flat colors, and I'd really like to restore the orignal look of the exhaust. Any thought to what the factory used?

 

Well I haven't posted in a while, but I've made some progress.
Since January, I pulled everything off of the frame, wire-wheeled any rusty spots (lots of surface rust in places, but nothing rusted through), treated it with rust converter, then primed and painted the frame, swing arm, and kickstands.

I've also spec'ed the valves, and fully rebuilt the carbs (though I haven't set the fuel height and one of my slides wasn't going clunk after the reassembly. I also reused some screws, then found the bag from chacal with new ones that I bought).

I'll have to post some pics of the progress but she ain't much to look at yet. And I've reconsidered the engine painting, it looks good except for the side covers and valve cover, so I might just paint those. Really considering painting the calipers, forks and wheels too, haven't decided if I want to spend the extra time.

Got fork rebuild parts and wheel bearings from chacal. That plus tires, and I should be getting to a rolling chassis soon!

 

Well, I was going to start a thread about things to look for in a 650 Turbo but it looks like this thread will serve nicely! (I hope nobody minds, didn't want to clog up the forums with extraneous posts!)

It's a 1982 XJ650 Turbo with 73,000km (Approx. 45300 miles for you folks that don't do metric!) on the clock and he's asking NZ$2650.00 (About US $2040.00)

She appears to be in fairly good nick, panniers look a bit Ick though and she's been changed to a single exhaust. (4 into 1? Why would you do that?!)

According to the present owner:
"This bike is 30 years old.

Turbo condition is unknown. Turbos of this era were white metal bearing type so had some play, especially when only oil cooled as they needed more clearance due to higher operating temperature within the core.

Clutch doesn't appear to slip when I'm riding it, although the forums indicate that they can. (Forums? Yikes! Maybe he's a member on here!)

I never got the factory exhaust with the bike. It came as it is now."

Any suggestions for what to look for would be appreciated!

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


On the plus side, I've managed to get a radio to match my XJ 750P Police Bike and have obtained an old style "black plate" that was used on vehicles of that era.

 

johnno, it's generally always better to start your own thread rather then hijack someone elses, especially a build thread, even if he's taking his time but I'll tell you a couple things to address.

A couple things that I learned since I wasn't born with a knowledge of turbos....

Look on ebay and buy the bolt with the check valve which mounts at the filter. If yours fails, you won't be able to find one and your turbo will leak oil all over the floor so find one now and save it.

it spins at 210,000RPM, yes, 210 THOUSAND times a minute....any play is bad. It does not use any type of white metal bearing, it uses a ring bearing which floats in oil. The rings can be replaced fairly easily and should be if any play is detected.

Best to install a couple of cheap items to make it a more solid machine. a 12volt solenoid between the petcock and bike can ensure no fuel leaks past the check valve or float valve, wire it to the fuel pump. A auto style(large) fuel filter mounted before the solenoid will prolong the life of the valve as well as your carb parts.

A manual boost controller only costs 20 bucks but with one, you can get well over 18 psi and you'll wonder why you didn't do it earlier.

Anything else, start another thread......

jeff

 

Haha, yeah, I am taking my time, but I've got the parts to rebuild the forks, new tires and wheel bearings, and various gaskets to turn it back into a rolling chasis with an engine/intake/exhaust installed.

I was focused on selling my V-Star, now that's out of the way, so hopefully I can get this out the door.

A little paint on some of the components, clean up some of the wiring, redo the breaks, and some fiberglass repair, and it should be on the road again. But since I'm working on it in my co-worker's garage, it's hard to just spend an hour or two a day and make steady progress.

You've got a very appealing list of upgrades Jeff, so hopefully I'll get around to actually meeting you some time soon. I haven't been looking too hard recently, but i haven't found the check valve you mention anywhere recently.

 

glad to see you getting back at it, good luck!!!

 

Yes, it's always good to see someone finally get back into a project. We've all got them....you go like heck, then something else comes up and next thing you know, it's months later....

Once you get back into it, let me know and I'll stop by one afternoon after work since it's kind of on my way home.....always good to meet another member!!

jeff

 

Alright some progress. Wife was out of town, so I got to devote 3 days more or less to the project. I've decided to only clean up and paint steel parts to prevent further rust, and figure that one day, in the future, maybe I'll tear it down again and really paint everything like new. But for now, I've barely got enough time to put it back on the road.

What I did:
Rebuilt fork - These are SOOOO much easier to rebuild than the 750 Seca forks. No slide-hammering the bushings out or anything. Sure it requires TWO specially tools (unless you just happen to have 17mm hex key around...) but remove two bolts, and the forks just slide apart, and all the seals can be leveled out. Even the "circlip" can be removed with just a pick.

Greased the steering head and swing arm bearings. With only 6000 miles on the clock, and not sign of wear, I just regreased and re-installed.

New Tires - Pirelli Sport Demons. I'm not racking up any real mileage, so I decided to buy a sportier tire that hopefully will be more fun.

Installed new wheel bearings. I can't say enough how AWESOME the bearing remove tool chacal sells is. On my 750 seca, I spent over an hour getting a drift to get any purchase on the front wheel bearings (and it doesn't help that the Haynes has the spacer collar on the wrong side), and on the rear, I gave up and bought the whole tool set. I think it was like $70, but when I did the turbo's wheel bearings, I just tap the fitting in, flip the wheel over, insert the drift/wedge, rap on it 3 times while the fitting is supported, move the wheel so the fitting isn't supported, and 3 more raps, and the bearing falls through. SUPER easy, and I would definitely recommend. And if you are in the area and don't want to spring for the tool, let me know and will schedule something in.

Then I assembled the those items. I'll still have to pull the rear wheel because I forgot to order brake shoes. Unfortunately, I'm suffering from some sticker shock on the rest of the parts needed to get it on the road, and I brought my turbo to a local shop that said the shaft had a little side-to-side play but no axial play. He admitted that he was just getting into turbos, and that they work with much more play that that (it was very little). It's definitely not blown, but with so few miles (and so many more planned) I might just have to have that rebuild :-(

So a pic...a rolling frame.


And finally, more evidence that you should replace your brake shoes. I just pulled the brake plate off the rear wheel, and this is what happened.

 

Question for turbo owners.

On the rubber carb to engine mount, have you ever noticed an accumulation around the vacuum port, that is brownish/blackish in color?

When going over my engine, I noticed a little build up around the vacuum port. I assumed it was someone's attempt to make sure the vacuum port wasn't leaking, like black RTV, but there's no other evidence of it anywhere on the joints other than the ports. It was coming off on one and seemed very brittle, so after washing down the engine I picked at it and found unharmed intake boot rubber underneath.

What do I *think* it is? Gasoline (or fuel/air mixture) that pushed past the vacuum port caps (I've got new ones for when the bike runs). My theory is that on normally aspirated XJs, a leak around that cap would cause extra air to leak in and the bike would run lean. However, on the Turbo, a leak on that cap (when the boost pressure+vacuum is greater than atmosheric...is this possible/what is the vacuum pressure?...and remember, 8.0 CR) actually pushes fuel and air OUT, and it accumulated/varnished around the base of the port.

What do you guys thinks?

 

I'm guessing that you are talking aobut the 4 taps on top of the car to engine boots.....and I'd concur with your theory but wouldn't they just pop off all the way if they were lifting enough to leak fuel mixture? I'll have to take a peek at mine since I regularly see 18psi of boost.

I'll post up about what ever I find.

jef

 

18 psi of boost ? how have you achieved this ?

 

A couple of minor mods........and it's a blast to ride!

jeff

 

Painted my engine on the 4th:



And engine covers:


Help me decide how to finish it off!
http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic ... tml#335627

 

Alright, I've been making progress on this build, with some help. I was working on this in a buddy's garage because mine was a bit cramped, dirty, and the floor is far from even. But a tree fell on his house in the big Derecho storm (everyone was all right), so I had to move the bike out if I wanted to work on the project before construction was done. I made due with the space I have, and now I can work late into the night without intruding on his family life (which means I sleep a lot less now).

Last weekend I fully rebuilt the calipers and master cylinder. The brake cleaner removed a lot of the paint, so I decided to paint them with some caliper paint.

I noticed when I started disassembling the bike that one of the calipers was missing it's mounting bracket. So I got a whole set of Turbo Seca calipers on ebay to scavenge for parts. But it ended up being usless. I couldn't for the life of me get the sliding pins out of the other set, not by driving, clamping, hammering, nothing. Also, there were a couple dozen dead spiders behind the pads. Luckily, in a desperate search through a parts bin, I found the bracket!

Anyway, brakes are mounted and a friend helped me drop the engine in the frame on Sunday. JeffK helped me rebuild my turbo. I noticed that it was component balanced (at least I think so since there were no grinding marks on the compressor nut, and were on the turbine "nut" and compressor impeller. So although we spent a lot of time meticulously lining everything up, I guess I'm just *hoping* it's balanced and will continue on. Maybe after I tuned the bike I'll get it balanced just to make myself feel better.

I've installed the full exhaust, oil lines to the turbo, and oil cooler. Still need to:
-Run the wiring harness (clean and grease all of the connectors). Install components and battery.
-Set float height
-Install various internal plastics, intake, battery ect.
-Test and install fuel pump
-De-rust and paint the tank. Quality of that paint job doesn't matter because it's covered in plastics. I just don't want it to rust any more.
-Install oil and filter.

Once I get that far, I plan on starting and tuning the sync and pilot mixtures. Once that is all done...
-Pull the exhaust again and paint it. There are lost of speckles of rust. That way, the bike will be running well and I can follow the VHT temp cycling instructions. I also need to flush out the collector and headers. Maybe soda blast them? I'm really worried about flakey rust (especially in the collector) being thrown through my turbo.
-Test all Turbo Specific electrical components, such as boost sensor, wastegate actuator.
-Consider possible fuel pump, boost gauge, and boost mods
-Repair plastics
-Replace clutch

Maybe I'll be done in time to enjoy the leaves changing!

 

Glad to hear that you got it all back together manbot. It sure is going to look nice once it's all assembled.

I rode out to AMA Vintage days over the weekend and surprisingly, saw a couple of turbo's out there. A friend from the forums met me there after riding his turbo out to the event.

jeff

 

Thanks Jeff. Again, your help was instrumental in the turbo rebuild, I really appreciate it.

I've gotten most of that first bullet done over the last two days. I ran the harness, although I'm not sure it's perfect yet, but I'll find out when I installed the components. I've cleaned every connector (and even unpinned male ends, sanded them, and greased them). I also had to repin three pins in the rectifier/regulator connector due to red wire melt. Hopefully I can clean all of the gauges connectors tonight, then slowely install everything.

I also started installing the intake. It's a mess of hoses in there. I also think that the power-up kit is installed, and I'm thinking of un-installing it and tapping Jeff again for his upgrades (no need to re-invent the wheel right?)

Also got an AGM battery that was a little thicker. Had to test fit it on the bike, and when I took the left fairing out of the box, I realized that while I don't like the color all that much, the paint is in really great shape. So we'll see how long I go before painting it how I want.

 

Brian,

While you are installing the turbo is when you want to install the mods for 18PSI !! You will eat your heart out trying to do it later, I promise. Look at the pic and you'll see how the boost controller components are piped between the impeller housing and the wastegate actuator. Run the other end of the hose up to your dash area. The piece of hose should be 4-5 feet long. Later, I'll show you what to install on the end of it but for now, just keep it capped and clean.

get one of these kits(or similar);

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CRX-S2000-PRELU ... 34&vxp=mtr

and install the "T" fitting between the impeller tap and wastegate tap....with the arrow POINTING TO the wastegate. Remember to connect the long hose to the bull of the T and run it up under your gas tank with no kinks or pinches. The valve in the kit will attach to it later.

jeff

 

WHOOPS too late . But I do plan on pulling the exhaust to paint (I'm going to use VHT paint, and heat cycle it on the bike, so I want to tune it first and get a good sync and idle before painting and heat cycling the exhaust). With the collector, mufflers, and headers removed, it'll only be a couple more bolts to pull the turbo.

Thanks for that link, I'll get right on ordering that. I just started doing some research to understand how the boost controller works. Do you use a ball-and-spring manual boost controller, or a bleeder type? Any recommendations for the boost gauge and the size of the shim in the blow-off valve?

Although I haven't tested my fuel pump yet, I'll likely be looking for a more powerful replacement, as your point about pressure output makes a lot of sense when increasing the boost pressure. If the fuel pump can't output more pressure than what's in the carbs, the bowls won't fill.

 

Actually, after doing a little research on bleeder vs ball and spring mbc, I'm thinking about this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Voodoo-IV-MBC-M ... 83&vxp=mtr

Anyone have any comments on it?

 

Also, Jeff, is the pink wire from your TCI plugged into anything? There's a thread on here that is asking what it plugs into, and I can't figure it out either.

Also, there's a tap on the end of one of my hoses that seems to go on top of the (I'm not sure what it's called, it's the assembly that has the reed valves and BOV, and boots to the carbs). There's a hole on top that fits the bottom of the brass nipple (I couldn't get the other end off of the hose). I'm assuming it needs to be firmly secured in there. Any advice (from anyone) on how to secure it? I'll try to snap a pic of it tonight.

 

[quote="M If the fuel pump can't output more pressure than what's in the carbs, the bowls won't fill.[/quote]

You're right, a R6 pump works perfectly...output approx 43psi. It's normally located inside the tank on a R6 due to space but works fine in the location of your old pump, just fab a bracket.

The pink wire is for the battery sensor....you won't be needing it so cover with tape.

I use the cheap bleeder type.....it took me a while to get my head around the fact that to control the wastegate, I needed to control when to STOP bleeding the control pressure off...wierd!

The assembly with the BOV is the Surge Tank....that hose needs to be connected...you can always use a thin strand of copper wire to secure it.

The shim that you want to use is a standard fender washer that fits over the BOF like this:

 

That fender washer will be perfect for activating the bov at 21-22psi....which will become your "safety" once you are set up with 18psi as your running pressure.

Here's a pic of my controller and guage mounted on the left hand side of my fairing;

 

I'm not sure I like that controller since it has no means of connecting a real boost guage....see how the link I sent you has two connections? One is for the guage, one for the hose from the TEE and the last one remains open to allow the pressure to escape......the one you sent won't allow all that.....


Also, if I remember correctly, the small hose from the top of the surge tank goes to the top of the pressure regulator. There is also a hose from one of the boots between engine and carb that runs to the pressure sensor.....be sure to pull and test that sensor! It's a little box that mounts in a rubber holder under the battery box. Easy to pull and test per the manual. Many read high at "rest" or statically....and if it's wrong, it will retard your timing making your bike run like is has 3 cylinders!!


jeff

 

Problem is...R6 pumps aren't coming up all that cheap on ebay

I've started looking around for something off of another sport bike, or some universal pumps. Should I be happy if I can get something for under $100?...funny how these mods add up. But I can't go half-way into increasing the boost pressure.

Jeff, did you read into any disadvantages of using the ball and spring MBC. I've read that they are simpler, and don't leak boost. Many seem to recommend the ball and spring for their simplicy too. However, it does seem like the bleeder type works more in line with the factory waste gate actuator, scaling it's psi-to-actuator displacement curve.

The ball and spring would pop at a set pressure that is well over the wastegate actuator's full open pressure (12 psi), thus swinging the waste gate open, then once the ball and spring valve closes, shutting the wastegate completely. Curious of that waste gate "light switch" operation is at all detrimental (or if I'll even have the balls to get that much boost )