Laid down my xj. Took it apart... Putting it back together

Alright. So after some waiting I will today or tomorrow have all the parts that I need to fix the xj at this point. Exhaust, handlebars, shift lever, clutch handle, clutch starter assembly, radiator hoses, exhaust gaskets, as well as a digital spedo I plan on using...

A couple questions... My plan is to put everything back together. Fill it with oil like I would when doing an oil chang. Fill it with coolant. Put the exhaust on. Try and start it.

1. I had to remove my radiator and cut the two wires attached to the back of it... they are color coded. Could someone tell me what color is on my left hand side (when sitting on the bike) and what color should be on the right hand side? Think I got it right but i would like to be sure!

2. There did not appear to be any frame damage or anything really bent. some small scuffs here and there. (was only going about 15mph when it hit the ground) Once started should I just try and ride it and see if it rides well? (in a neighborhood slowly of course)

3. How do I know that it is still safe for highway speeds? Do I need to have it checked out? or if it rides straight just don't worry about it?

4. My brake fluid level looks a little low through the clear window on the mc. It's not leaking any fluid that I can see and the brakes still seem to work.. Just add fluid? Could it have leaked out while on its side?

5. Super noob question here... But the exhaust gaskets just go between the header pipes and the actual holes in the front of the engine? Just want to be sure....

6. The front tire went down into a bed of rocks but still appears to be good. 4 weeks later the tire is still inflated. Do I need to replace it?

7. I have a guy I work with who's son went to school for 5 years to learn motorcycle body work and paint.. He has quoted 3-400 to bondo in the dents in my tank, sand and paint it, do front and rear fairing, and both side covers. good deal? Or should I just try and do it myself with some spray paint?

8. Lastly... I dropped a screw from my left switches set (turn, brights, ect) somewhere down into the bike. i dont think it could have gone inside anyting. Bigfitz said it should be stuck to the starter.. I still cannot find it. Should i just get another screw and not worry about it?


Thanks to anyone that takes the time to go through this I realize it is a lot. when I get better at this I highly look forward to being able to help others on here myself.


-Ryan

 

2. Basically yeah. It's not so easy to bend a frame, I doubt you damaged it on a 15mph slide. Go over it with a ruler (straight edge) on any suspect part, but you should be fine. And yes, just go out and ride it--though if it does feel off, I'd check the triple tree clamps and forks, and check the handlebars. I highly doubt anything else would be bent enough to 'feel'.

3. If it rides straight, don't worry. There's not really any special checking they can do that you can't--just go over all the lines and make sure they're straight, make sure there's no flaws in the metal itself. That's all anyone can do, really.

5. That's correct... But you should know that, since to put new ones in you would have had to pull the old ones out of there, right? There are pictures on the forums, look it up.

6. If it's holding air and you carefully visually inspect it and it has no tears, gauges, etc., you're fine. But check the sidewalls very carefully. Rubber is tough stuff, though, it'll take a beating and keep going. You're probably fine.

7. I'd just buy a new tank for that price... I say try DIY, if you don't like the result then shop on ebay. What would one study for 5 years on that? Sounds like hype and a reason to charge more money without really being much better. For that much money I want them hammering it out or something, not slapping bondo on it. Not that I've ever had any of this done, mind you.

8. Dropped a screw shouldn't be a concern. I dropped a battery screw a few days ago, and finally found it sitting in the crook of my center stand, of all places--stayed there through hundreds of miles of riding, sharp turns, etc. Weird.

Good luck.

 

Thanks for the advice. I greatly appreciate your help but I am having a problem. I could not get one of the headers out. The one in the middle on the left when facing the front of the bike. One of the two bolts holding the header in was acting up. The one farther down on the right seems to be jammed. Plus I have a very hard time getting it. I got the other one off... But I figured it would be easier to put it back on maybe alleviate the pressure off it. But I was cranking it hard and broke the head off... Hopefully I didnt damage the engine I can't imagine that I did... But could I have?

I do not have the tools To remove a headless bolt.. I'm really bummed. Was hoping to be riding already. I'm tempted to just take it to a shop.. I want to ride .

Gosh I wish one of you experts lived closer to me...

 

Also is it normal for it to still be leaking fluid out of the overflow tubes even 4 weeks later? hasn't been started yet... So It could just be slowly seeping its way out?

 

Crap. I wish you could have been warned before hand. I assumed you already had the headers off, didn't realize you were about to get into that process.

Those things suck, and I reeeeealllly hope you broke it flush with the cover/sleeve/aluminum finned ring thing, and not the head itself. It's not a bolt, it's a stud--a rod with thread on both sides. You have to be SUPER careful with those. Since we're on the topic, the other bolts to be SUPER careful with are the intake-manifold-carb-joint-boot bolts, the ones on the rubber boots from the carb to the engine. You shouldn't need to take them off right now, but just for future notice--they suck, and you have to be really careful, because if they break, you're going to be in for a lot of heartache.

Anyways, SOAK those things in penetrating oil; I've used Liquid Wrench to good effect, many people here can attest to the wonders of Kroil and Aero Kroil. I had one snap off flush with the aluminum finned cover, and so once I got the other one off, I could slide the sleeve down and use a mini vicegrip and start turning it.

DO EVERYTHING IN YOUR POWER NOT TO BREAK IT. You DO NOT rush frozen studs like this. You just work on them slowly. If they give you trouble, leave it alone and come back later. There's a stage of steps to remove these. Tapping on it with a hammer CAREFULLY to break up the rust in there is one thing you can do, but it's risky in this particular case since the stud is long and narrow. Heat is another option, but I'm not sure of the specifics of that here. Just soak it in penetrating oil, and keep doing it over and over again--for me, that has been enough.

Anyways, no, you couldn't have damaged the engine.

There's this great section in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance about 'mechanic's feel' that's worth reading to help you start learning to be gentle with bolts (I've broken 5 on my bike in the last 2 months, so don't feel bad--and they've all been removed and replaced without issue, so be encourages), and you should search for a thread I made about "gumption" that's a lengthy quote from that book... Will really help you keep breathing through this whole process, help you understand what you're getting into.

Also, what fluid from what overflow tube?

And always describe left/right from the driver's perspective. When you number things in a row of four's, leftmost (driver's left leg) is #1, rightmost is #4. So you are talking about header #3.

 

The think that is a p.i.t.a. is that I took the exhaust off completely since my wreck, considered going stock so I put it back on, and then didnt stay stock..

So I thought it would be no big deal. And I guess I'm doing well if I've only broke 1! I needed to hear that thank you.

I will look into the product you mentioned tomorrow. In that case the way you explained it I am talking header 2 I can't get a socket in their because of the frame...? I had a little baby wrench but It is way too hard and not moving barely at all. So the problem I have now is the one that was stuck is still stuck and the one I chose to put back on... Is now headless. It did break off flush with the cover thing. I literally have just the top part of the bolt...

I wish I remember How I had gotten the darn thing off the first time..

Should I bolt all of them back on to make sure its not causing any tension? Or just work on it with the steps you recommended?

And I think that I NEED to give that gumption a good read through... Trying to be patient and not get frustrated. Just ready to be back on the dang thing!

 

The top part of the bolt should actually be a nut with a piece of stud broke off inside of it. If it's not, something's off. And yeah, sockets are hard because of the frame; I took off the 1 and 2 so I could remove the left side exhaust and weld mine back together recently, and I was able to get it with just a little hand wrench and being very careful. Had to apply quite a bit of force, but I was very careful not to overdo it, and kind of bounced it on.

Anyways, if it's been off before, with some penetrating oil it will be no problem... Don't know why it's so difficult this time if you've messed with them so much. Another thing is to be very careful to only apply force in a straight line, not at an angle--you want all of your force to be applied to the rotation of the nut, and as little as possible onto the stud itself.

As far as tension, I don't quite understand what you're referring to. I would just slide the sleeve off a bit--or is one snapped off and the other to finish taking off the sleeve won't budge? Anyways, if you remove the sleeve, the stud should just be sitting there with nothing on it... I would either slip the sleeve off and have it hanging on the header leaning against the frame, or try and have it make-shift as close to the head as it gets and supported on both studs; but really, I just would have as much off of that half-broken stud as possible. You're lucky it's flush with the cover, it shouldn't be too much of a problem then.

I know you want to ride, I feel your pain, but if you don't take it slow here, you could be waiting a LOT longer. Just work on some other part of the bike while your waiting on that one. And definitely go read that gumption thread. http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/p=321583.html

 

Keep spraying the stud with penetrating oil daily for days. I've had bolts on farm equipment that I sprayed for over a month before they finally broke loose. You could try heating the stud and applying candle wax. Do that for a couple of cycles. Don't be in a hurry and break the stud off flush with the head or you will have to find some one with the tools to remove it or install a Heilicoil. A Heilicoil is not hard to do but I would not recommend your engine as a subject for your first attempt.
I saw a test of penetrating oils one time, Liquid Wrench was one of the best and WD40 the worst. also close to the best was a homemade mix of ATF and acetone. Kroll and Mouse Milk were also very good.

 

Fintip you were right. Its just the bolt with a small portion of the stud broke off in it.

"one snapped off and the other to finish taking off the sleeve won't budge"

That is exactly the problem. Ill read through that other thread too. Looks like Ill go get some liquid wrench tonight!

 

Question on your #7 question about bondo-ing the tank.
How big are the dents? Too much bondo could look terrible in the future if it cracks. If they are going to repaint why not have the dents pulled?

 

Of and fintip with the overflow hoses... there are two of them. right under the seat one is clear I think one is black. It just drips oil? No big deal?

I am at work Durk so I can't post the picture but I can give you the thread it was posted in.

http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=37356.html

Those are the pics after my wreck. And I was told that pulling the dents could rupture some protective seal in the tank???

 

I was wondering the same. but maybe he means he's going to pull the dents, and then bondo the creases?

Heres a link for the header/exhaust gasket replacement:
http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/p=3 ... tml#328424

The tire would be fine i would say, as long as not old, and doesent have any big gouges/etc. Tires are pretty tough.

 

Thanks alot man for the link I appreciate it!


So to get that stuck one off any recommendations? I tried tapping it with a wrench, tried using a hand wrench, tried loosing it and tightening it. Pushing about as hard as I can comfortably to loosen it it barely budges. I have to get that one off to expose the shaft for the other one...

 

And the way to do that is - - get the glass from a picture frame and set it against the fork tubes, above the fender. It should NOT rock.

Stand to the side and see if both sides are parallel, or, (more difficult) completely remove the bars and place on a dead-flat surface like a countertop. Bent bars will be obvious.

And the paint quote seems high, unless he's a drop-dead perfectionist and you get pinstriping, flames, or cool graphics.

 

I've seen some of his work and it does appear to be top notch but maybe I do need to shop around a bit...

I'll try the glass thing tonight and the handle bars were REALLY bent like the left one came back to where my chest would have been...

Those were replaced with oem bars from chacal.

 

Can I really just throw a vice grip on that stud and turn it out?

 

On the exhaust stud.
If you have soaked it for a couple days with penetrating oil it should come out fairly easy, But you want to make sure that you are turning the stud, and not applying any bending force.

If there are threads left on the stud you can double nut the stud, and turn it out with a wrench. If the stud will not turn out easily you can use a propane torch and carefully apply heat to the head around the stud.

This is all best done with the complete exhaust removed. Trying to work around the header pipes will only complicate matters. Do not over tighten the nuts on the exhuast when reinstalling.

On the Paint.
Those dents, and scrapes do not appear that extreme, but due to the nature of the rocks they will be nearly impossible to remove. Filling with bondo is the only option on that tank. The price quote really depends on the area, and quality of work. $300-$400 for a total repaint of all tins is not a bad price overall. Make sure the price includes all prep work (striping, filling, paint, clearcoat).


On the test ride.
Take it slow and easy. If you feel any shaking, or wobble in the front end. Check the steering head bearings, and forks. A low spend lay down should not have cause any significant damage, and the pics do not show enough damage to warrant concern about any frame problems with the bike.

On the oil leak.
The clear hose should go to your battery overflow. the black hose should attah to the airbox. It is possible that you had some oil get into the airbox through the vent hose whne the bike was on its side. Check the air filter/airbox, and clean out any excess oil. Replace air filter if soaked.

Ghost

 

you can try some kroil on the studs if you're nervous:

http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=37584.html

 

I got the exhaust fully removed... Worked the nut that was stuck off but now I have the sheared off one stuck. I got this stuff called pb blaster. Was cheap and highly recommended by the shop plus I've seen guys on here use it. I sprayed all around it and couldn't get it to budge with vice grips and I don't want to shear it off closer. Could you explain a little bit more How to "double nut it" not familiar with that.

 

Thank you VERY much. I will give that a try either tonight or in the morning

also thanks to the guy that posted the exhaust gasket thread. That was my next question.

 

I am obviously going to have to replace these studs anyway... Would it make sense to put some type of a super glue inside the nuts to help them stick together and to the stud? Or horrible idea?

 

NO NO NO you need to weld the nut to the stud. Now another thing you can do to help loosen the broken stud id give it a sharp rap with a hammer, and also you can heat it up with a torch. You see the steel and aluminum expand at different rates so by heating you can get the bond to break. Now you need to be careful first not to over heat the aluminum as you can damage it. So I usually use as small a flame as possible, I use a butane soldering iron with a torch attachment to heat the stud. I then give it a rap the a little twist if it moves spray it with more PB blaster, I prefer Kroil, and heat and wack and twist. If it is really stubborner I heat, wack, spray over and over two or three times then let sit over night. Took me three days to get one broken exhaust stud out of my XJ. But it worked. And the small butane torch is the most useful tool I have found for loosening bolts, screws and stuck pilot screws on bikes.

 

I don't have anything to weld with.... :/


Can I do that with a small blow torch as well?

 

BUY SOME KROIL. I used to swear by PB Blaster; Kroil works when NOTHING ELSE will. https://secure.cnchost.com/kanolabs.com ... r_hf.shtml

The stud should come right out.

 

Like Fitzs says Kroil is the best! and well worth the money spent on it. Kroil, heat, sharp tap. Repeat sequence if needed. But be patient this is one of those jobs you can not rush. If there is no movement IMMEDIATELY then spray on more Kroil. let it sit over night give it time to do its work. Do something else then come back and give it a go. Remember Kroil is flammable!!! Small propane or butane torches are cheap and are indispensable when working on these bikes. Torches with large flames like your everyday propane torch that is used to solder copper pipes is TOO BIG!! You will damage things. Some come right out some need a little convincing. When I removed my exhaust all but one just needed to be sprayed once with Kroil. The one that didn't took three days before it would budge!

 

I'll get some kroil then. How on earth do I heat it if it's covered in a flammable spray?? Using that method do I still need to weld?
And embarrassed that I have to ask this but I can't seem to find it in my manual where is my air filter?

 

Found the air filter through some common sense lol... It did have oil on it which explains why it was leaking still.

I need some help here. Is Kroil really that much better than pb blaster? I've been blasting it daily for the last several days. I tried heating. I even tried an easy out. I was tightening this one down hard when it reached the back of the stud hole and I didnt notice and tried turning it further and just sheared the cover/bolt and part of the stem off. I've tried everything I can think of. I get the vice grips as tight as possible but they just scratch the stud don't turn it..

is there something I am doing wrong? Dang I want to be back out on the road.

 

Do I need to take something like this to it?

http://www.amazon.com/Mini-Pocket-Butan ... B00523GDVK

i tried using two just regular lighters..

 

Just any regular small propane torch kit from walmart will siffice. Just be very careful. Aluminium does not turn red like steel does when it begins to melt. It simply just melts.

Here's the best way I have found. If you can get the stud double nutted, that is the best way.

1) Double nut the stud.
2) With a hammer, give the stud a couple of good sharp whacks. Be accurate with the hammer blows. Give the bottom nut a turn with the wrench and see if it will turn. If not....
3) Have your torch and wrench ready.
4) Light your torch and apply flame at the head where the stud enters the head. Count only 5 full seconds and remove torch.
5) Quickly grab wrench, and turn bottom nut counterclockwise. If it turns, awesome, keep going to extract it. If it doesn't, give the area another 5 second blast of heat and try again.

 

When "double nutting" I put two on and tighten them together dock put anything on to seal them together? Won't they just roll off like normal???

 

If you put two nuts together. Then using two wrenches to tighten them together. It creates a mehanical lock between the nuts, and the stud. If the nuts start turning off the stud. You need to apply more force when tightening the nuts together. When removing the stud place a wrench only on the bottom/inside nut (the nut closest to the head).

A regular lighter will not provide enough heat. You will need a normal propane, or mini butane torch. Try to direct the majority of the heat onto the stud. Be ready with the wrench as soon as you remove the heat.

With as long as the studs have been soaked. They should come out rather easy. Unless they were over torqued to begin with. In which case you might need to apply a slight amount of tightening force to get the stud to start moving. If the stud moves when tightened. It will then turn back out without further soaking, and heating.

Ghost

 

It was over torqued. I will give this a try tonight.

 

"tightening this one down hard when it reached the back of the stud hole and I didnt notice and tried turning it further "

Bud, you're getting the benefit of some of the best talent out there and you're rushing, screwing up more as you go because you either aren't paying attention to what you're doing or rushing and not listening to the guys that are trying to help. I've noticed some guys not responding to your posts because I suspect, it seems to be wasted effort to them. Take your time and get the right tools before you end up headed to a very expensive machine shop so they can bend you over the barrel and hand you a fan belt to bite down on. Overall, you were very lucky when you had your mishap but you've already turned a weekend's worth of repairs into much more....slow down and think before you do something, not after you've broken something else.

Ebay is your friend for that tank, or, as some suggested, try fixing it yourself. All in, it will cost you 30-40 in materials to do it correctly but you'll find a tank online for a lot less then the 3-4 hundred quoted.

jeff
PS. the very best fastener loosener is a 50/50 mix of kerosene/ATF warmed to just over 120 degrees(warm to the touch). Yes, it's better then any of the name brands.

 

Thanks Jeff. that happened before I posted it on here. Wish I would have asked before I sheared it off... It is not rusted in or anything just jammed in. Which is why i dont know if the blaster or kerosene mixes will work aren't those meant to cut through rust/grime? this is just in there tight with nothing to grab on :/

 

I agree. take a deep breath and just relax. you will be riding soon enough. no need to rush it and dig yourself deeper. Its like shoveling so fast that you're not looking here you'e flinging the dirt and its going right back in the hole.

the double nutting technique is a good one.

 

Ryan,

I'm half afraid to tell you this with your habit of not thinking things through but if you mess this up, it's on you.

I'm guessing that what you have is a stud sheared off. First, find out if it's a stud or a broken bolt....there's a BIG difference and I'll tell you what the difference is. A stud is typically inserted with a strong thread locking compound. It's usually tighened down very hard so that the nut that is designed to go on and off, will do so without loosening the stud. A bolt on the other hand is only as tight as the guy who installed it, and the amount of torque that was applied. Most bolts on your bike have very low torque specs but most guys overtighten them.

If that sheared off thing is a stud, given your lack of tools....you might just be better to take it and pay to have it removed. If it's a bolt, and you cannot possibly get a hold of it with anything, you still have a couple of options, even if it's sheared off flush with the face. You can drill a hole DIRECTLY in the center after making a dent in the broken part to be sure that your drill stays centered, go in about 1/2"-5/8" with a drill size about half of the diameter of the bolt. Soak it for several days in the atf/kero mix.....insert a barely larger left handed drill bit or easy-out nice and tight and gently, repeat, gently try to ease it out. If it puts up a fight, don't force it. If you snap the bit, your screwed so don't!

No one here wants to see you fail, we're all rooting for you which is why the guys are being so helpful but you've got to do your part by looking at the results of each thing that you get ready to do, before you do it, not after you've broken something. If for instance if you have a 8mm bolt, you don't use a 12" open end wrench or you are going to overtighten it because you will have waaay too much leverage...that kind of thing.

good luck,

jeff

 

Jeff I appreciate the constructive criticism. I am having the worst time with this thing. It is one of the header studs. I sheared off the "cover bolt" as well as that section doesn't have enough thread to try the double nut technique. I have tired using an easy out, tried heating it with a small blow torch, tried double nutting, and everything that has been recommended. Forgive my lack of knowledge but I don't know what atf is? I dont know if soaking it will even help its not rusted in just jammed?

I am really leaning to just taking it somewhere I can't get it to budge at all. I am being patient with it... but it does not seem that it will come out. Is there anything else I can try? Can any normal bike shop get this out for me?

 

Re: Laid down my xj. Took it apart... Putting it back togeth

If you can afford it take it elsewhere. I'm no shrinking violet when it comes to fixing bikes but when I tore my Vmax down for the first time I found a broken stud,the engine went straight into the van and to a local shop I know where the old guy who owned it whipped the damn thing straight out,all at the highly reasonable sum of £20......If you don't have the tools and more importantly,the 'touch' then you could make things a lot worse.....IE head off and find an engineer who will,as JeffK points out,only be too happy to ream you out...... :lol:
Just my opinion,of course.

 

Re: Laid down my xj. Took it apart... Putting it back togeth

I gave up. Put it in the back of a friends Truck and drove it to his mechanic. Fortunately for me his mechanic had done all of the work on his 2007 gsxr 1000 including upgrades. The guy took out for $25 as a favor to my friend. SWEET.

Now I am working on getting the exhaust on/header gaskets. After that is on I need replace my clutch starter switch (already have the part) put my radiator back on and fill it with oil and coolant. Is there anything else I need to do before trying to start her? Brake fluid is good, forks appear straight (tried the rocking a piece of glass back and forth like you guys recommended) , tires appear good and are still holding pressure. Just want to make sure that there isn't anything like painfully obvious I am missing?