ethenol gas question

I've seen some suggestions that the 10% ethanol gas will cause problems with the carbs and even the intake boots. Anyone have any experience with that, and is anyone using an additive such as Star Enzyme to counter act the ethanol?

 

Ethanol is bad for older bikes but good for repair business.
Older bikes have O-rings and seals that are not compatible with ethanol.
Even the brass inside the carb will corrode over time , specially if left in the float bowl over time. The best you can do is find a gas station with 100% gas. The next best thing is a fuel additive that addresses this issue.

 

i used to work as a small engine mech. when gas hit 10% corn, all of a sudden everything started coming in and wouldnt run. every fuel line was cracked and swelled up inside. some we found black scum (pieces of the fuel line and o-rings) inside the carbs plugging everything up. this even happened on new mowers still under warranty.

if you are stuck running ethanol like most people, DO NOT let it sit more than a week or two. start the engine at least once or twice a week. if its going to sit for a while drain the tank and run it till the carbs are completely dry. a little wd-40 might be a good idea inside everything.

my dad is trying adding a little marvel mystery oil in his gas in his antique car. he recently had the valves stick open because the alcohol had dried out the valve seals and held the valves open...

 

Aye, the bastards don't want us running old bikes/cars/trucks or owt anymore,
easier for a garage monkey with no actual experience to fix a "new " model, 'cos all they do is plug in the diagnostics, and guess what, diagnostics say NO.
But seriously, add some additives, to help the rubber parts survive, for a while, 'cos it all goes West after a while.

 

From down here in Aus.... I've been running E10 ethanol file in my bikes for a few years now with no problems yet.

My V-Strom has done 45000km on E10...all good
GTR1000 probably 15000km ... all good
FZS600 Fazer about 40000km ... all good

That is RUNNING on E10 ..... however, I will run the tanks to near bone dry then refill with a non E10 fuel ( read more EXPENSIVE) before they get parked up for any length of time. Likewise if I buy extra fuel while its cheaper I won't buy E10...

 

Around here we still have whats called non-oxygenated gas. It has no ethanol and is available in 91-93 octane. Its more expensive than the 10% ethanol but I swear my Seca prefers it over the E-gas. Hope it stays around forever.

 

Anybody burning AvGas 100LL? It's 100 octane but has a lot of lead and I'm wondering if the lead would cause a problem. We have to clean lead deposits off the spark plugs on airplanes every year. It does not have ethanol and stays stable for long periods of time. The auto gas w/o ethanol is low test and not available at many places locally. Will the low test gas work in a xj750? It's cheaper than AvGas. I've had problems running small engines on e10 and run chainsaws and Briggs&S on AvGas now.

 

Lead can cause lots of problems but mostly for humans who ingest it, don't think the lead would harm the mill but why use that?? No need to run 100 O in a normal compression motor (less than 11:1) because it doesn't do anything but burn slower and more uniformly, which is why you run the high stuff in a high compression motor to keep the gas from pre-igniting. 89 to 93 RON is the best octane to run in these bikes unless you ride above 7000 feet, then you should use 87.

Most of e10 problems relate to the alcohol sitting with gas for extended periods allowing separation-then gum and varnishes will quickly develop-but even being regularly used it will deteriorate the fuel system parts faster than straight gas will-just go ask any 50+ year old mechanic about what he has witnessed since it came into the market. But the corn growers love it, the auto parts industry LOVEs IT, and eventually the car salesmen love it too. But mechanics, classic enthusiasts, and the informed naturally think we should be drinking ethanol or eating corn instead of mixing it with dino juice & burning it!

 

If there were a reason to rant about ethanol it would be to complain about manufacturers that don't bother to make the necessary changes so it can be run in their vehicles. Ethanol has been available in gas (regionally) for over 30 years (longer internationally). The main reason for its use now is to assist in a complete burn in order to reduce emissions. Given that the only alternative (MTBE) makes any groundwater that it comes in contact with unusable, I'll put up with changing out the rubber parts and dealing with prepping my vehicles for storage.

The best way to avoid E10 trouble is to ride more often; don't give any time to go bad


BTW corn is probably the worst crop to use for large scale ethanol (fuel) production. I hope that congress gives fuel producers a waiver allowing them to ignore the minimum ethanol use requirements this year so that livestock owners can afford to buy what little corn there will be from this harvest.

 

Here's an FYI to all you youngsters out there, The only purpose for the addition of tetra-ethyl lead was to provide a LUBRICANT FOR THE VALVE SEATS; I'm not yelling, hit the caps lock by mistake. The engine makes have made changes to the metallurgy of the valves and seats so that lead is no longer needed. I believe these changes started in the late 70's.

 

Ya my '74 Toyota has an 18RC motor with hardened (or no lead needed) valve seats & valves, it replaced a slightly more powerful motor the 8R (had higher compression) which needed to run on leaded gas or burn the valve train up. Toyota was a little bit ahead on the environmental considerations.

I agree totally about using corn - it is STUPID to use an important food crop for E production when switchgrass or sugar beets can be used. And that was intentionally using the caps.

 

the car i was referring to was a 1953. maybe i should have said that...

any rubber or neoprene that is not designed for alcohol will eventually break down and dry rot. alcohol penetrates almost anything and drys up fast causing dry rot.

 

+1

And +100 to the EPA. No more spreading lead everywhere! 8)

I wonder if there is an E10 safe alternative material out there we can use to have our rubber carb parts replaced. Wont stop gumming or the need for rubber dias either.

Edit: Well I shoulda used my google-fu first.
Check it
This data seems to contradict the current belief that ethanol isnt compatable with rubber o-rings made from Rubber, Nitrile, and Ethylene-Propylene.
Polyurethane on the other hand!

Still gums up!

 

Ethanol fuel attracts moisture from the air and goes bad in no time. The shelf life is very short. Unless you are going to run your engine every day like your commuter Vehical don't use this in your XJ. look for stations that have regular unleaded gas with no ethanol.
When you see pictures of green emulsion tubes and carb jets, you are seeing the after effects of fuel with moisture in it. Keep your carbs heathly and use as little of this stuff as possible and drain your carbs if the bike is going to sit any length of time.

MN

 

I must add to this thread: I'm going through my carbs now after them sitting for 3 years with 10% in and they look great!! spotless and no gunk. seriously.

Last fill I did was the day we bought it. I stopped along the way from the purchase to add gas and it contained 10% "Alcohol" I remember cringing about it.

Now, I must add that I cannot recall whether or not I added Sta-bil to this bike the first winter! It has been a habit of mine with other bikes, so I am assuming so. I dont know what effects sta-bil would have under the alchie circumstance so take this post with a grain of salt.

Regardless, I still avoid the Moonshine when ever possible, which is unavoidable here.

 

The fuel that is out there now for the most part is very poor at best. All of the small engine manufacturers have gone to plastic gas tanks and warn customers about leaving fuel in those engines. They will not cover any repairs for stale fuel related problems.
If you have not had any problems with the fuel in your area, consider yourself lucky. I have had a few small engines rot right through the metal gas tanks over winter storage. Also one of my bikes the tank was full and the inside of the tank was surface rust over the same winter. So I combat that with draining the carbs and fogging the inside of the tanks with oil to keep the rust away.

 

I saw an ad on TV the other day, Sta-bil makes an additive now for small motors to safely burn ethenol.
Personally I'll stick with my non-ethanol 91 Shell V-power as long as it's available. None of my bikes or mower or anything have complained yet.