Starter on Virago

I found a 1982 Yamaha 750 Virago for sale, the price is right considering it needs a little work. The CO says it needs carb work (what a surprise), the crankcase on stator side needs bolt re-tapped, and the starter has 'issues'. Is this the same basic setup that the XJ's have where you must split the case to fix-that doesn't seem possible, or is it a different design-gotta be right? Thanks for any info or insight.

If I buy his lot I will have some 650 XJ parts for sale that I will offer here before cheapbay-it seems this guy is a kindred spirit with several projects going.

EDIT: Should have done a search first eh? Guess I know the answer now, different but still a PIA and the carbs only more so! Ouch. So second question he has the V, lots of parts, including gas tanks, carbs, etc. and is selling the whole lot for $300. Worth it just to part it all out? I would hate to chop up the V, but what else would you do with it?

 

Here is a pic of the poor beast

 

To bob or not to bob. I would bob it. V's look great bobbed.
I believe the starter/starter clutch is the same design as the XJ and are known to give problems as well as tranny problems. Hopefully someone with Virago knowledge will chime in.

 

No, the starter is NOT the same as on the XJ.

The first-gen. viragos had a system that incorporates a starter, sun gears, a ring gear, and that all turns a toothed gear that spins a helical gear and a spring, which in turn turns some other gears on another shaft that is sandwiched between the block and the left engine cover. Those gears on that gear pack end up turning the engine.

These bikes are notorious for starter issues because of the gear chain (as in 'chain of events'.

Also, those early ones were a two brush design, not a three brush starter (or is it three-brush and not the later four-brush?......brain fart at the moment). Do a search for Virago starter repair by Dr. Piston and you'll learn a lot.

The starter can not be pulled with out removing the left cover, and to do that, you will need new gaskets, and you'll dump your oil, too.

How many mi on your's? Mine has 16,000 on it.

If you need parts, I have a fair amount of 81-83 XV760 parts, too. PM me.


Dave Fox

 

If it runs, grab it..... You can probably sell off the extra parts for that much. I can help with the Virago as I have restored several of them.

Bill

 

do your homework on prices for parts.......the early viragos parts don't really command high prices. I only have several of them, and a whole lot of parts just sitting around.

I only pick up viragos if they are DIRT CHEAP, cuz they aren't selling high enough for me to feel they are worth all the trouble at this point.

YMMV,
Dave F

 

300 bucks is a good price even if it doesn't run. I can make you a good bet the carbs will need to be cleaned, check the gas tank for signs of rust and if possible make sure the engine turns over. There are a lot of these old bikes around and the parts sell pretty well.

 

Hogfiddles, just HOW big is your garage

 

I gave up on viragos a year ago. The problem is not the starter its the gears. There is a clip thats supposto help but usually the ends of the gears round off.most of the used ones you will find are the same don't quote me on this but if you buy new gears clips ect its between 4-6 hundred bucks Thats why you see so many nice looking low mile early viragos cheap If the gears are good its not to expensive to fix but it will do it again poor design. 86 and later are better they changed the design but still have occasional problems. The carbs are a different story a total p.i.t.a I would much rather pull 3 sets off an xj then 1 set of those carbs are connected 1 forward 1 back you have to pull both carb boots just to get them off and back on the inner bolts are a major pain to get out (no room carbs are in the way) plan on replacing the boots also. According to when it was made if your lucky the pilots are accessible. Most you can not clean they are not accessible. So figure if you have never pulled carbs on one a few hrs just to get them off. And make darn sure they are right when you re install them you will see why when you re install them. I have made special tools and used allen bolts on the inner bolts. I can get them off or back on in 30 to 45. Also plan on your hands looking like hamburger its almost like an anti theft devise yamaha built in everything is very sharp under there

 

The 81-83 750 & 920 Virago's had a bendix starter design, meaning that the starter motor is already running when it engages the stationary gears. This results in the grinding sound and extra wear. In 1984 with the introduction of the XV1000, the starting system design was changed to a solenoid type system in which the solenoid kicks the starter gear into the clutch gears before the starter motor starts turning. The exception was the XV700 which wasn't changed to the new design until 1986. This system remained in place thru the end of the production run in 1999 and was also used in the early Star models. My 83 920 had the early starting system, it made noise, but it never failed me in the 12K plus miles I rode it. The bike has been sold twice since me and is still running fine. A 4 brush starter and replacing the number two idler gear if it is worn along with a shim and clip kit will solve most of the problems. I guess if you wanted to go OEM with all the parts, it could be several hundred dollars... The new #2 idler is available for about $80, the ship kit for about $50 and a new 4 brush starter for about $100. So if you do the work yourself, it isn't that big of a deal IMHO. Check out www.powersportsplus.com for OEM parts. Best prices I have found.

 

Forgot to mention, the bike in the picture you posted appears to be an '83, not an '82. The 82 had a square head light and a Cycom with the adjustable handlebars. Also the exhaust mufflers had a taper cut at the end rather than a square cut.

 

I agree 1000000000% with Cutlass.

The bike also looks identical to my 1981 XV750.

dave F

 

BTW, now that I had a chance to NOT think about viragos for a bit, I got my head straight again on the brushes.....I was half right on each account--

The early viragos were a two-brush design, while the later ones were a 4- brush design.

There, now I feel a whole lot mo' betta.

Dave

 

Not to put your mind back on Virago's again, but, Yep, it does look like the 81. Point is, it probably isn't an '82 unless it has been modified. Check the VIN number to be sure. There is also a date of manufacture on the left side of the steering stem. There were aftermarket 4 brush starters available for the early Virago's as well.

 

Looks like they used the "pivoting" caliper brake like the 650 Maxim too.

 

Yes, the rims, brakes, fork assembly, hand controls, and rear punkin are all interchangeable with the 650 maxim. The 920 virago had dual discs on the front and that would swap with the 750 maxim.

The one shown has the wrong turn signal lens showing, and some are missing...

The 84+ up viragos had a lot of interchangeable parts with the 85/86 xj700 maxims.

Starter-- I have never heard of an aftermarket 4-brush starter for the 81-83. I know that there are some later xv starters that are 4 brush that will retro-fit but not sure which ones. Can you give me a link or info to where I can find the aftermarket ones? I'm actually in the middle of my own starter repair, and would like to get mine buttoned back up soon.

Thanks,

dave fox

 

Another interesting swap/point:

The Virago tailight assembly will swap with the 650 maxim (and I believe the 550 maxim, too) but there is an internal difference....

The virago taillight has two bulbs inside, and the maxim only has one. It may not be a bad idea to put the two bulb ones on the maxim simply for greater visibility!

I also seem to recall that the rear fenders are the same on the 81-83 xv750 and the 81-83 xj650, but will have to double-check that.

Dave F

 

Hey thanks everyone for chiming in! From what I gather the starter can be done but could be costly, although it sounds like there is enough knowledge here to get me thru it. The carbs are also a possibility but I will have nightmares for years after tackling them, and need cosmetic surgery to restore my hands!

No wonder Yamaha ditched the Virago and created the V-max! They were trying to clean up a mess they created that was embarrassing.

I am planning on checking out the V and what parts he has next Thursday so I will keep you all posted. If he has what he claims and the V doesn't seem doomed I am guessing it will be finding space in my garage. Worst case scenario I could part it out and use the better tail light on the 550!

 

the VMax utilized the V shape, but also utilized the water-cooled aspect of the XZ550 Vision. It's sort of a 'double-Vision' engine. Without the stator/electrical issue that plagued the Vision, either. Take the Vision 550 watercooled, and double it, now you're at 1100...punch it out a bit.....make it a 1200, add a V-Boost to it, put that into a package hardly any bigger than a MaximX, and ............hoo-boy- watch out.

Kind of makes me glad to have one of each of all of those so I can look at the developments through all of them.

I had them all out for show at this year's carb clinic, so people could see close-up what each bike actually has and how they relate. I'll tell you, the engineering is really something. Yes, some things were bad, but hey, you try an idea, and if it doesn't work well, you drop it or change it or improve it. Once you get something GOOD......you stay with it for awhile----not like now, where the object is 'planned obsolescence, or planned breakdown-right-after-the-warranty-expires'. That alone is a feat in engineering....planning just how long something WON'T last, and then planning the warranty to expire shortly before, so they don't have to cover anything.

Dave F

Dave

 

Just saw a Vmax a little bit ago..... The Virago wasn't embarrassing for Yamaha...... They sold hundreds of thousands of them all over the world from 1981 thru 1999 and then morphed them into the Star line with the 1100 engine. The 535 and the 250 and 400 are still sold in places other than the US. There are many of them still in service today. If you need help on your Virago, go to www.viragotechforum.com . I am there too..,

 

Well familiar with VT. I surf there pretty regular, too.

Dave F

 

If you decide to part it out I have dibs on the exhaust. I have a 920 Virago it will fit.

 

Sorry Bill, I didn't mean they didn't sell well, or weren't popular with their owners. I can remember seeing them everywhere when I was a kid. I only meant they were embarrassed (privately of course) by the poorly designed features, like the starter and the wedged in carbs. Based on their heritage and the great designs they have come up with, I imagine they don't like making anything that is less than great. Thank you for the info it will surely be useful.

Parting out will be the last resort. I know it sounds crazy but I get attached to anything with a motor and typically assign qualities of a living thing to them-so parting out to me is like euthanasia and then selling off their organs for transplant. Of course..sometimes its for the best.

 

No need to apologize..... I have owned and restored 8 of them in the past several years. My latest, I keep here at home and ride it quite a bit. I know the Virago's inside and out. The early model starter design was a joke, but it was limited to 81-83 750/920's and the 84/85 700. But when it was new, it worked very well. The starter design was changed and very little problems after the change. If you need any assistance getting the carbs off, I have the procedure that gets them off in a few minutes. So don't hesitate to ask. You can find me here or on the Virago site.
I have a sister that lives in Russellville, AR.

 

Bill....so what, then, is the 'correct' starter to swap in for upgrading the 81 750 to a newer 4-brush starter? Also, what would be the 'correct' upgrade for an 85 700? Finally, my 1100 should not be an issue.

I have read and re-read dr.piston's pages and understand most of it, but that is the one 'swap' that I can't seem to understand yet, and it is the one thing that is holding me up from finishing up three engines.

Thanks,

dave F

 

Dave, the Virago engines use two types of starters, a long shaft and a short shaft; the '85 700 and the 81-83 750 and 920 use the same short shaft starter. Here is a link to one on EBay. It doesn't say it's a 4 brush so you want to ask the seller. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Starter-Yamaha- ... 65&vxp=mtr
As for the upgrade, if you mean the shims/clips kit...... Dr. Virago Pete's kit is about the best. There is nothing that will fix a bad design, but the combination of a 4 brush starter, which adds significant power, and the clip kit along with a new #2 idler gear makes a major difference. Also, when you have the side cover off to replace the starter, take a mechanics mirror and look at the teeth on the back side of the flywheel where the starter gears engage, if these are worn, they will need to be recut or replaced. This is something often missed because they look good from the front.. The 1100 uses the long shaft starter as does the 1000 and the 86/87 700 and 88 on 750.
Here's a link to the clip kit... I think its around $50, not $500. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Best-Virago-Sta ... f9&vxp=mtr

 

Update: Saw Virago 750 and parts today, VIN number on frame indicates '83, 11,400 miles showing.

The starter is not the problem. It sounded great turned the motor over fine, it only had it's tell tale sound as I let off, which from what I've read is unavoidable and normal. The CO has already replaced the spring and added the kit.

It is still a project bike though. Lots of small stuff like surface rust, a stripped allen bolt on bottom cover, seat torn, broken headlight switch, headlight out and other parts off as well-obviously time consuming and a little costly (switch, cover etc.) but no big deal. The big deal is the rear cylinder. After not telling me at first he divulged that when he had it running, it wouldn't idle (which he thinks is the carbs), and it had a knock coming from the rear cylinder. So I hooked up my comp gauge. 151psi front, 64 rear. He said he didn't have time for me to do a wet test, which seemed strange since we chatted for 10 more minutes, but the motor did sound healthy otherwise (didn't hear any lower end noise although never actually heard it running). Hmm don't know bout that.

Parts are immense, but scattered. XS tank (rusted), shocks, XS carbs (2 sets completely apart and parts all scattered! UGH!), 2 XS wheels with good tire, XJ carbs (same as others), TCI for XS, Headlights, bars, etc. 2 bobber style tanks maybe from older Yammy's but in decent shape (no caps). Taillights, a few clocks, etc. You get the idea. Highly disorganized but there.

All together it's worth the asking price of 3 Benjamins, but I just don't know if I want to bother with trying to piece all that mess back together. The parts alone would take days to reassemble and check out. And the Virago might just need a valve adjustment, could be a broken rocker (?), or more serious as in piston slap or spun bearings right? It doesn't look as good in person as in the pic (do they ever?) I am leaning towards pass. What would you do?

 

For 3 bills, I would buy it and have my winter project. Sounds like there is enough spare parts from other bikes that you could sell off to pay for it. My first Virago was a 920 that had been setting under a tarp outside for 4 years. It still had gas in the tank as well as some rust. I paid $250 for it.
There are a lot of good used parts around. The rear wheel off the XJ, if it is an 18" will fit the 750 to replace the 16 inch that is stock on the Virago and will reduce your RPM's somewhat. Even complete engines are cheap. My guess that if the bike has been setting for a while, it may have a stuck ring or such in the rear cylinder. If it has compression at all, the cam chain is probably OK and with only 11000 miles, there can't be too much major wrong with the engine. Did you have the throttle wide open when you ran the compression test???
Look up Rick Massey's Shed Queen Resurrection and use it. I know it was made for XJ's, but it applies equally well here..... This bike has Hitachi HSC40 carbs and they will need to be cleaned thoroughly. The reason it won't idle is probably the pilot passages are plugged. A rusted tank will do that. You can either clean and seal the tank if its good or find another good used one's. I have a couple of places you can look. I will do my best to assist you if you decide to restore the bike. I am riding #8 that I have restored, none were running when I got them.

 

Ok Bill and anyone else following along..now your gonna think I've lost my mind.

Since I just looked at the 750 Virago with all the parts, and another one popped up on the prolific Craigslist (damn Craig!), I went and checked this other one out as well. Now I'm considering buying both and creating one good one out of two and sell what isn't needed.

The second one I looked at runs. I got the guy to let me test and it blew 124 and 132psi (didn't see any blue smoke)-oh and yes I always open the throttle and won't bother without a fully charged battery. He says he took it to his 'car' mechanic who is old enough to work on carbs and had him clean the carbs-this mechanic told him that the valves were likely in need of adjusting. It is basically intact and in better shape cosmetically than the first one. Has new battery, saddle bags, and no baffles on mufflers. Needs to have 1 petcock rebuilt (I'll bet it will be two), the rectifier appears to be toast (12.1V at 3000rpms)-he has invoice for new stator and other work done to it.

After I went and got gas (he hasn't run it for 7 weeks and it was bone dry) it started and ran, idle was fair, wanted to search a few times and didn't want to rev down easily, but it did after a few blips. I'm betting its the valves and unrestricted exhaust screwing up the carbs day, plus someone wrapped up the intake boots in electrical tape (like that's going to be solid). The clutch is obviously in need of adjustment or it has some stuck plates, I could tell it was releasing some but not enough to let it go into gear without stalling-so no test ride :-(.

I must admit I've got Yammy fever again and would really like to bring a V back to the good life. Just hoping that there aren't any hidden skeletons I can't see. On the plus side it does have new stainless brake lines and the front brake is STOUT, rear not so much but that is an easy fix. Good tires. Almost no rust...same price as the first one $300-think I can get him to $250.

Buy em both eh? I can afford the investment but would need to recoup my $$ by spring to stay out of trouble. It's gonna be hard to explain anyway when two new (old) bikes show up and piles of parts!! I will probably just say that I don't have a clue where they came from and the XJ must have become asexual and gave birth, they are both black and chrome just like the 550.

 

That works......... You won't have any problem getting the left over parts sold as long as the prices are reasonable. There are a lot of people looking for early Virago parts. Keep in mind, this is not an XJ and the engine is not going to run smooth as silk. Virago's have a noisy engine and they make noises that in other engines would sound like they are ready to come apart, but don't worry, if they are taken care of, they will run forever. I know someone who has 140K miles on his 700 he bought new in 1985 and its still going.