I've about had it

alright

If there's anyone in Raleigh, who can ourtright show me, steps 1 - 100 of valve clearances, float levels, carb tuning etc etc. Come get some. Name your price and show me.

I am SICK and tired of working on my bike all summer and now aproaching fall. Beautiful days wasted in a little shed or in the driveway full of mosquitos trying to tune this "fine peice of equipment".

I bought the bike on agreemend of $850. He said, I just cleaned and tuned the carbs.

The first time I took the carbs off, cyl 2 & 3 float bowls were BONE DRY. All 4 idle mix screws were screwed into their fully seated position. and much much more of the same "skilled" tuning. Broken petcock, boots leaking air everywhere. Valve clearances WAY WAY out or whack, on and on and on.

But screw it right? I wanted a fixer upper. So i just worked on it, worked on it worked on it.

now a full riding season later. I'm fed up. I just dont have the facilities to continue to take my carbs on and off to adjust this float a little here, and this one a little there. oops don't sneeze the wrong way, the carbs dont like it, better get those idle mix screws right, better have a hyper-sensitive manometer or you can't sync THESE carbs,... oh wait, are you not using a YICS too? Well what were YOU thinking?

My roomates are pissed that the shed causes the whole house to smell like gasoline. The VERY few weather friendly days i have to work on it, are extreemly limited in ability because I frankly don't have a full workshop and hours on end to work on it.

I have spent well over the purchase price to get this thing going again, and yet it remains, immobile in my driveway.

 

As a matter of fact. I'm parting out this bike. I will take my sorry ass to a dealership, and just buy one that is running. I'm am sick of workiing on this things solo with the ALWAYS contradictory advice i get from this website. I just can't stand it.

I don't have weeks to work on it,

I don't have thousands of $ to work on it

So what do you folks want/need in parts. I'm throwing in the towel on this one.

 

Sorry to hear that.

Unfortunately, you get contradictory advice because only about one in four advice-givers are actually speaking from successful experience while the others are either "parroting" something they heard or just making stuff up.

It's not a quick, nor easy process. And it does reward careful, patient precision. Rushing and taking shortcuts usually does lead to it taking longer than it should.

From the sound of things, you haven't even gotten to the brakes yet.

If the bike is complete, relatively unmodified and in decent shape, don't part it. Sell it to someone with more patience and the resources to finish the job.

 

yes, that is sad to hear; I love my XJ, sweet runnin bike. I really like to hear about these bikes out there still running because someone likes to tinker and keep them running. Always nice to see an 'oldster' out there tearin up the asphalt. I agree with bigfitz, maybe someone would want to take it off your hands to rebuild. Sorry to hear you have had such a time of it, that is not a good experience.

 

Dear MrPhys, I do simpathize with your plight, I just want you to know that the XJ model isn't that hard to get right, If you want to give it another try, then rely on BigFitz for all the advice you'll ever need. I've owned 2 XJ 650's and both of them ran like a dream. Sure it wasn't just luck, a few of my brain cells contributed. I encourage you to try again and I'll bet we can help you get this thing going the right way.

 

Don't give up yet, just bring it to my house and we can have it running in a day. I live in Apex and have worked on many bikes for XJ members. I can show you everything you need to know to have it road ready. PM me sometime if you want to come by.

 

Stop moaning and get fixing! Having looked back through your threads I see no evidence of contradictory advice?? Are the same items repeated? Yes! Because either a. The poster is too lazy to search for similar threads or b. they don't follow the advice offered thoroughly enough. Full credit to Mr Miew for generously offering his time for a personal visit!

 

Sorry to hear your experience.
If you took it to a shop, I doubt valve clearances, float levels, carb tuning etc etc. would of cost the price of the bike.
Just that if I can't do something, I take it in or find someone. Seems like you keep trying and trying the same thing that didn't work.
Don't give up.
Chris.

 

These bikes are not the easiest to work on, however if you pick away at individual problems they come togeather and there is nothing sweeter than a fine runnin XJ.

MN

PS. Don't give up and bring it over to mlew. While he's workin on it go kick the other dude where the sun don't shine. Just kidding but you should have words with him about misrepresenting that bike.

 

I can sympathize with you. I bought my XJ700n from a po that said it ran great, and it did crank and run when I picked it up in Daytona in the Spring. If I had known all I was going to have to do to it, I would have passed. But now that I'm damn close to getting it perfect, it's all been worth the effort. I've worked on machines all my life but I have to admit that I've learned more about carbs than ever thought there was to learn. Yeh, I've had the carbs off probably 5 or 6 times, but now I can almost do it in my sleep. My advice is to listen to Ric, Bigfitz, and one or two others who you will soon learn know what they are talking about. Chacal has the parts and he's also given me a lot of advice. I've bookmarked about 15 sets of instructions, and bought a service manual on CD, and suggest it to you. Right now my bike runs great, I'm just trying to fine tune to get the mpg up to par. The hardest thing I had to learn was to not get in a hurry. But like I said, it's been worth it and I'm glad I bought the damn thing! Kind or a love-hate relationship with the old girl.

 

BigFitz has been monumental in my "rebuild"... if you'd call it that. And the contradictary advice is there. I promise.

Mlew. I'd love to come by and work on these carbs and the bike with you. Just let me know what day. You already helped me out with the shims I needed. Thank you by the way. Half of my problem, as you know, is that in NC it rains randomly, hard, and without warning. It has made working on this bike and these carbs a trying experience because I do not have a garage, or a large enough shed/work area to work with.

as far as this goes

I reffer you to this very thread

followed quickly by

also things like "YICS tool is NECCISSARY for syncing" vs. "it's not really that important."

A fair part of my frustration is the fact that I'm dealing with issues that I was told had already been handled and were not going to be a problem when i got the bike. This was a big deal for me, seeing as how I do not have a proper work area for restoring an old bike, nor hours on end without help to adjust everyhing. I was told my issues would be mostly cosmetic and a few fine tuning bits here and there. Only to discover that I do indeed have to basically rebuild this thing from the ground up.

BigFitz. Your advice has been unbeatable, as far as everything that has gone right with this bike. And yes, I have already tackled, successfully, the brakes.

Also, with no help other than youtube vids and xjbikes.com I am struggling with just the basics of fixing my first bike. I've never used feeler gauges before, so I'm not sure what constitutes the "dragging" feeling people refer to. Just as one example.

As far as taking it to a shop goes. Most places I've asked about working on these bikes, especially the carbs, refuse to work on them because it's so old. They tell me the time it would take for them to learn, then do the work, would be outrageous and I probably wouldn't be willing to pay for those hours.

The Yamaha dealership (Team Power Sports in Garner NC, who can barely tie their own shoe laces apparently) outright refused to work on it at all. By the way, check out my upcoming thread in the "shops and mechanics" area about them.

I assure you people, despite my threads on this particular forum, I am a very patient and calm individual. But this stuff has me at the end of my rope. Had I known that this guy was going to sell me a FULL SCALE project bike, I would have passed until I understood the mechanics of carbs and older bikes better. Financially and time wise I was unprepared for the task ahead of me.

thanks for all your support. If i don't get this thing running by next weekend I really am going to have to call it quits and yes, part it out, as selling it as a whole bike would be fiscally irresponsible. I doubt I'd get much for it as a bike, but as parts for other xj owners, I think I'd at least be able to recoup some of my large losses. sorry...

 

But a clear and honest thank you to BigFitz and RicOmatic (prayers are with you for your speedy recovery). the only advice I trust on this site anymore comes from them.

 

Check the thread in my sig... Sorry for your difficulties.

This has been my first bike to learn maintenance and repair on as well, and I've used just about only this forum and youtube (and the manual, a bit, and friends, a bit)... And while four carbs are obviously harder than 1 or 2, I haven't found this bike very difficult to work on. As far as the contradiction--they're both true! It just depends on the person speaking, and the point of reference. It's a lot easier to work on than a car! It's also a much more precise machine than a 125 dirtbike thumper.

There were some hard days, learning. I have definitely had my share of cussing up a storm. But now that I have my second XJ and I'm in the process of rebuilding this one just like the one before, going through every step... I realize how much I learned. I almost never need to reference this site the second time around. I don't find myself on youtube anymore. I come up with my own solutions to problems based on the experience I've gained (at the guidance of the people on this fine site).

As far as who told you a YICS was unnecessary... They just didn't know what they were talking about. But use some common sense and understand the system! Of course you can't vaccuum sync something if you aren't isolating it from other sources of air flow.

I would conjecture, sympathetically, though, that the real source of your irritation is threefold, and has little to do with the bike itself (in spite of it's frutrating elements):

Weather problems. (These can get me angry, I completely understand. I hate rain, personally, period, unless I'm in a fishbowl looking out... It's just so frustrating.)

Lack of workspace. (I've been doing this as a shade tree mechanic on borrowed tools since I started a few months ago, so I again am very sympathetic to this plight... It makes a huge difference. For the carbs, I did commandeer a friend's garage and cleared a table. Setting up a good workspace is a HUGE factor in successful work and pleasure in working. Haynes makes a good point of noting this in the beginning. Having a garage would have you enjoying the process, not pulling your hair out when the rain comes.)

Mosquitos. (I f***ing want to pull my hair out every evening working on my bike the last week as dusk falls and I am getting bit all over. I've started to learn that the workday ends not at sunset, but one hour before. Period. Too frustrating otherwise.)

I would say, though, that given how much time and money you've put into it... You probably aren't far from finally being there. It's just that 90% and 0% feel awfully similar: the bike doesn't run. If it only takes 5-10 more hours, and $200 more, trust me: you'll spend a lot less money and get a lot more joy from just finishing the project than going to get one from a dealer. Once it will be done, if you do follow through, all that frustration will turn into a badge of pride instead of a memory of frustration and failure.

Mlew's offer is a great opportunity, hope that works out for you!

I'm curious, what's the state of your bike? What has been done, and what is left? We could probably give you a time estimate on what you have left so you could better make a choice.

Best of luck either way.

 

The XJ isn't really that hard to work on, when you have the right tools. Without the proper tools however, it can be a pain.

I have a feeling that if you can get to mlew's and spend 3 or 4 hours there, the two of you would have the running issues sorted out.

 

The key is having the right tools and a good work space to do it in. And even with that said 4 carbs any way you slice it is twice as hard as two carb bikes.
+ 1 with hooking up with mlew would be the best option at this point, or we are going to see a bunch of parts for sale.

 

here's some more contradictory advice. sell that bike and get one that you can ride home.
a man's got to know his limitations, you just found yours

 

A man doesn't kick another when he's down either.

Mlew you have shown greatness, not everyone would be so generous and that's a shame.

MrPhys take him up on his offer, although the two members you singled out do give great advice, they have both helped me, there are others who DO know how to fix an XJ.

Best of luck to you and I hope to be smiling right along with you when you erase the memory of the PO who "told" you a tale.

 

Hope you accept mlew's offer, once you get it running right, i can guarantee you will be glad you persisted.

 

Alright perhaps I did go in too hard...it is his first bike after all.

 

Adrian, no offense taken man. I do have thicker skin than that.

Quit your bitch'n and get to work. I think that about myself and others all the time. I just like to vent and rant.

Also, I have indeed taken MLew up on his offer. I've met him once before and he is VERY knowledgable about these, and other bikes... as well as just about any hobby under the sun apparently.

I'd like to offer a public thank you to him for his offer and help.

Also, I believe the guy who sold me the bike, really believed he had all the carb stuff worked out. I think his intentions were good... but, the fact of the matter is what I was told one thing, and recieved another.

but I should be more understanding about it i suppose. Hence the 1st post edit.

 

I was in a very similar situation with my carbs then I got help from one
of our members (iwingameover) and have not look back since. Once you see it done or do it with help it is quite easy.
Good luck!

 

This probably deserves its own thread. So I'll do that. MLew helped me out last night. Brought the carb rack over to his place and tore theem apart, checked everything, made adjustments, and reassembled them... in a matter of a few hours. I've never met such knowledgable person.

Put the carbs back on when I got back to the house around 11pm. Turned right over. Still need to adjust those idle mix screws, but wow, what a difference!

 

Glad to see you hung in there, feeds the fire for the rest of us who are trying to hang in as well

 

Glad to see you hung in there, feeds the fire for the rest of us who are trying to hang in as well

 

I go through that "Can't deal with any more" feeling about every other day when working with these old jap bikes.

Fortunately, as I get older I deal with it a little better than I used to. Now I walk away and refuse to acknowledge the machine until I feel completely clear-headed and not angry anymore....usually a day or two later...

Back in the day though...MAN...I had a Honda 750 SuperSport that was the most diabolical piece of junk ever...had sat outside for years without riding and just way too far gone for my talents or resources at the time...

But EVERY TIME I worked on it something broke...every bolt was seized as if welded...wore out several impact drivers and still broke screws and bolts...

Finally, when I went over the edge, I kicked it over, threw a hammer at it, and left it lying on it's side pouring fuel out of it's leaky gas cap. I said things about the Japanese that probably haven't been heard since WWII. I called my friend and told him if he wanted it, come scrape it up but I'm not helping load it, I never wanna see it again. Otherwise I was gonna set fire to it. He was there in ten minutes.

I heard that bike tried to kill the owner after him, chain broke and wadded the rear hub and locked it on the highway. Guy was leathered up and got out of it relatively unscathed. Bike went end over end after leaving the road and was totaled.

That, I think, was the best possible outcome. Now it resides in machine hell.

 

I am not trying to steer him away from the bike. I have had many that have given me problems like that but i get mad and just walk away for a few days. He is so upset with it right now he wants to ride. But being in a rush is not a good thing. For now on every problem he has with the bike is just going to set him off again frustration. My only advise is if you can afford another bike that is running good and can afford it . Get it ride it and work on the xj at your leisure things are so much easier and less frustrating when there is not a time stamp. I always would get upset if i was working on something and knew it had to be done at a certain time it takes all the fun out of working on it

 

I just get very animated. I go on rants, and honestly I don't like the feeling of helplessness that comes with being stuck.

Thanks again to mlew for getting me back on track.

 

I'll be here to keep you on track.
How did it run after the carb work? Did it idle better.

 

hmmm it idles better. It definately needs vac synced, and adjustment screw work.

see you in a bit.

 

See how much better it is when you get some help. That's what makes this forum a great place to be.

 

Glad to hear you got this running. Does this mean you can ride it now? What else do you have to do?

Chris.

 

Never give up! I too had bought a cheap, non-running XJ750 ($200 and >6k) and spent a year (!) tracking down and fixing various problems. It has been road ready for only about a month now and I can't tell you how many beautiful Vermont summer days ticked by, sweat dripping and cursing, before I had it sorted. The carbs were the worst! I took them off eight times before I found all of the problems and had the XJ ticking over properly. This forum has been the best resource for information and I am very thankful that I was encouraged and emboldened to attempt these fixes myself. Thank you to everyone who contributes good information!!!

I now am riding all over New England and wouldn't hesitate to take my bike anywhere. I look forward to the winter months so I can continue to tweak my ride.

There will be more nice riding days to come and you will have the knowledge that you've done all of this work yourself. Yes, it can be frustrating at times, but the experience is invaluable. These are great bikes that run for a long time with the proper care.

Don't give up and come back for more sage advice and encouragement.

 

Wow, this has been quite a thread, it's nice to see that this guy got the help he needed. This site is has so much valuable info and advice for anyone to access. It doesn't matter what your mechanical abilities are here, I have been a shade tree wrencher for decades and I am amazed at all the knowledge I've gained by just reading in the archives. Thank you, XJBIKES.COM

 

We got the carbs squarred away but now we have a low compression problem in #1 and 2 cyinders. Have not deternined wheather its a valve blown head gasket. I leaning tward the head gasket since the compression in both cylinders is 50 and 120 in 3 and 4. We;ll do more this weekend.

 

Hopefully it's just tight valves.

MN

 

Nice going Mlew....I'd say your invoice would be up around $650.00 by now? :lol:

 

Ok. I have refurbished my valve cover to my liking.

More importantly I have removed all the nuts and bolts, cam shafts, etc from the head. I am having one hell of a time getting it off. any advice? Maybe a missed screw I am overlooking (i'm pretty sure it's just stuck tho)

 

I am going to lap my valves, check for bent ones, clean everything, I have an OEM Gasket kit, and on the way is one head assembly (for spare parts) and some valve seals.

 

Good man.

What book are you using? If you're bumping along on the Haynes, track down a factory book. The Haynes misses a few beaucoup important details.

There are nuts on the UNDERSIDE of the head, front and back.

 

Got those underside nuts off already.

Until today it was no book. Just the one i downloaded. this afternoon...
ok... so 10 min ago

reading now. Sorry, for whatever reason my brain likes to forget that there are indeed, BOOKS for this sort of thing. I like the interactive knowledge center here (you kind folks) better anyways.

I just can't help but to think that it needs some good old fashioned cajoling with a hammer handle... but I read on...

 

MrPhys I am really impressed that you are soldiering on! My hat is off to you.

No hammer handle. If you don't have one get yourself a nice rubber mallet. Begin by gently tapping opposite sides of the head with the R mallet. Keep moving around and tapping at an upward angle while you rest your free hand on top. After a dozen or so taps try again to remove the head, if it's still not moving apply heat with heat gun/hair dryer to the point at which they come together, increase your force but do so incrementally. It will pop loose its just been sitting there for a LONG TIME!

And if Mlew is right about your H gasket being blown there could be a little Iron Oxide hanging out acting like glue.

 

this thing is STUCK on there. Still working at it.

 

Be paitent, don't want to break any of the cooling fins. Let me know if you need extra eyes on the problem.

 

Yeah, about that... Took the heat+rubber hammer route.... broke a fin....

:x :x :x

Picking up a wooden/plastic wedge today to try to seperate them.

Can't wait to figure out how to set up the cams for proper timing. Even without the tensioner, the cam chain was so tight it was a nervous task removing the cam shafts.

 

Did you remove the cam gears? Once they are unbolted the cams easily slide out.

 

MrPhys that is why I said "gently" but please don't use any wedge, you will damage the surface where they mate. The rubber mallet worked for me but it did take a while and patience.

 

MrPhys.... I would be going back and checking for a bolt/nut that is hidden in/under some dirt/grease/mud/oil/obscure place.

The head sounds way too tight a fit to just be "stuck" .....

just a thought.

 

Put the plugs and wires back on, and fire it up. It'll blow it off...




J/K, please don't

 

Jeffco's solution worked like a charm.

kidding.


Up till last night I'd even put a hammer handle in the intake/exhaust and tapped with the rubber mallet... eventually pretty aggressively. Stuck.

Let the liquid wrench work on it overnight. Mlew suggested wooden wedge (i picked up shims at Lowes). My bike enthusiast co-worker BJ adviced more side to side whapping with the mallet (being careful to not break anymore fins by only hitting "reinforced" areas of the fins).

So I figured... try them all.

I couldn't get a shim in until i got the CYL 1 side to pop up just a bit... then shims under that, sloooowly but surely that got most of it up... more rapping on it with the mallet on the CYL 4 forward corner... and FINALLY after quite a bit more... persuasion... it came loose. Pictures were no good from tonight, so I'll take some in the morning.

Trust me when I say, this thing put up a fight.

The gasket seemed to be in good shape. I did notice the timing seemed to not coincide with proper TDC when I first started... so we'll see how those valves look when they're pulled.

Mlew, I may need to borrow you're specialty valve spring compressor setup.

anyways, fun resumes tomorrow. I have a full day to dedicate!! finally.

 

The wood wedge has always worked for me, I hate taking a mallet to the head. I know the wood won't hurt anything. Just let me know if you need the spring compressor, I'm home all weekend .