Help me understand my battery?!?

I have had my Maxim for about 2 months now and just last week it wouldnt start due to a dead battery. I got it to pop start and when I got home I pulled the battery and saw all the cells half empty. I filled them up with distilled water and threw the battery on a charger and it charged up and I got a green light and all.

How ever, it wont stay charged. I will pull it off the charger, start the bike, drive to work (3 miles away) and when I come out to go home it wont turn over.

I would assume its not the bikes charging system, being that it it were, my battery would last at least a few days before it needed charging.

Did the fluid get to low and the battery is just ruined? The battery was installed by the previous owner earlier this year. How ever the bike sat for a few months prior to me buying it and we did have to jump the bike to get it started when I purchased it.

 

Don't assume that it's not your charging system, TEST your charging system. With a fully charged battery, start the bike and rev the engine to 2500 rpm. At the battery terminals, you should see 14.5 +/- 0.3 V. Rev to 5000 rpm and it should stay in this range. If it does not, your charging system is at fault.

Batteries do age. Not maintaining the fluid level + draining them will ruin them. You've got a dead battery on your hands, that's for sure, but you need to ask yourself why. If your charging system is weak, it'll ruin a new battery in short order. Wet cell batteries will only last two years unless thoroughly maintained.

When my charging system didn't work, I could get about 20 miles on the battery, but that will vary based on the health of the battery, and exactly what failed on your charging system.

 

it could just be neglect, and the battery has run dry over time or it could be the charging system overcharging the battery.
either way filling up an empty battery with distilled water alone will not get much capacity from it, you would need to fill it with battery acid, assuming the plates are'nt buckled. you may need a new battery, but first check the charging system, theres a "how to" on here if you do a search.
stu

 

HALF empty, you sure do want to fill it with distilled water and only distilled water.

That being said, it is probably now dead. Fully charge it and take it to the local auto parts and have them load test it for you.

But by all means, TEST the output of your charging system as above.

 

Yes, just distilled water, don't add acid to anything other than a new dry battery.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, just distilled water, don't add acid to anything other than a new dry battery
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
oops, sorry didnt see the bit about half full.
stu.

 

sorry for my total lack of electrical understanding, but do I just check it with a regular ohm meter or something. I really understand very little about how electricity works, I am much more of a mechanical kinda guy

 

set your meter to 20 volts DC & hold the pins on the battery terminals, then rev to 2.5K, or there abouts, should read 14+ volts.

 

ok thanks

 

well my meter didnt have a 20v spot so I threw it on the 50v, Not really sure how to read it so I posted a video or it, let me know what you think

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpZIXGwX9Y4

 

Anyone?

 

I'd be checking the generator brushes.

 

Looks like it started out right around 12v and when you revved it up went to 14v . Should be ok but I would still look at your brushes and clean where they ride.

 

Brushes???..... I really need to get a manual

Thanks for the advice and info gentlemen

 

ok, today was my first day on a brand new battery..........FAIL

I made it one extra "start" but the battery lasted just as long as before.

So I am getting good voltage from the recharge system....WTH??

I will say a few weeks ago when I pulled into a gas station to fill up, as soon as I shut the bike off, the starter started going, trying to start the bike, with the engine shut off and key shut off. I had to hit the button for a few minutes but I got it to stop doing that.

It has me wondering could something be "running while my bike is parked through out the day and draining my battery???

 

could I be overcharging??

 

Ok, I know you tested the charging system, but still...I would pull the cover off the alternator(on the left side of the bike, as you're sitting on it) And *look* at the alternator brushes, if they are getting close to worn out, it is just possible that sometimes it charges, sometimes it don't.

There is a wear indicator on the brush itself. There are two brushes, odds are the outside one is more worn down, as it "travels" farther. (it doesn't really, but the rotor turns underneath it and...well, you'll understand when you look at it)

Also, bad brushes *can* cause overcharging. It could be as simple as cleaning up your rotor, pretty easy to examine. Search around for "alternator brushes" here on the forum.

 

You have a weird wiring fault. Your incident at the gas station proves that. Have you put a meter between the battery and disconnected battery lead to see is you have a current drain read short, somewhere?

 

I have not, can you explain what you mean by that process?

I had someone suggest a bad rectifier?

 

How does one properly test that

 

It is likely your ignition switch is going bad. Once you switch it off there should never be ANY power going anywhere and since there was-it's internals are failing. If it's letting any power through in the 'off' position it will kill your battery in a matter of hours. You can test this by removing the + side of your battery and take your mutimeter's leads and put one in the 'amperage' plug (it's the other + lead terminal that you normally don't use) and attach it to the battery + side and the black lead to the + cable you just removed leading to the bikes harness. If any amperage is indicated while the ignition switch is 'off' that is bad. Sounds like this bike sat outside for a while and has corrosion in the top side electronics (ignition, start switch, etc.) It wouldn't hurt to go through all your electrical connections and clean away any corrosion and smear with dielectric grease.

Your rectifier/regulator is fine. Your alternator may be a little weak (but the problem could also be your ignition switch so fix it first and test again)-in your video your meter goes from 12.1v to 12.3v as you begin to rev and then when you rev it higher, it steadily increases to 12.35v. This result says 1) rectifier is functioning and 2) alternator is not able to push total amount of V back to battery. It should go to about 12.4v+. Open up and and clean your alternator, that may be all you need to do-if not replace your brushes.

 

I am going to my dads tonight to check the draw on the battery. How does one check a starter relay??

I had today I noticed that after trying to start the bike on what I thought was a dead battery, after a few more pushes of the starter button the bike turned over, so could it be a bad relay thing-a-majigger??

 

Test the system for a short and had Zero amps.

Well I'm pretty sure it's a starter issue, I had a fully charged battery and it still wouldn't start, gave the starter a tap and wouldn't you know, started right up

 

You gave the starter, or the starter solenoid a tap? Starter is on the engine, solenoid it behind that battery. If it was the solenoid, it could indicate a bad solenoid, or a bad battery. I was recently having the same problem on a 2y/o walmart cheapie battery, where I'd have to tap the solenoid to get it to turn over. New battery and the solenoid functions fine.

Basically, the solenoid needs 12V to activate, but if the battery impedance is high, you might not actually get 12V to the solenoid, and if you are just under it's threshold, a little tap helps get it moving and closes the contacts.

You still have a wiring issue that you need to sort out. The starter turning over with the key off really points to some kind of hack job by the PO. If it is, it can cause all kinds of bad electrical symptoms. Also, you might need to clean the starter button contacts too, and while you are at it, every connector involved in the ignition/starting circuit.

In regards to your charging system, unless your meter has a 0.7 V bias (or your battery wasn't fully charged to begin with), your alternator doesn't seem to be producing enough voltage. I agree with mecuryman, your R/R is fine, although I saw different voltages in your video. At idle, your voltage should be equal to your battery voltage (before starting the bike), and under 12V is low. Your initial rev of the engine (I assume you got it over 2500 rpm, next time, show the tach in the video too) takes the voltage to a little over 13V, and your final rev to 14V. A healthy charging system should get you 14.5V by 2500 rpm. A weak charging system (too much resistance between components, the manual has a spec) can produce this condition, but I suppose a weak battery with a high impedance, or a high current draw (like a short) could also reduce the regulated voltage.

In all honesty, you probably have several electrical issues that you need to contend with at the same time. Be methodical, and meticulously clean every contact you can. Check the brush lengths, and the resistance between your stator and rotor output and compare to spec. Checking specs and cleaning things is never a wasted effort, and might even save you troubleshooting in the future.

 

http://www.electrosport.com/media/pdf/f ... iagram.pdf

 

I bypassed the solenoid and has the same "nothing" as before, what I have always been getting is the "pop" of the relay. So a few taps on engine and she started.

My new question is.... I am going to ride her like normal until I have a starting issue again and then test the battery to see if it is actually dead or I just thought it was. what is the voltage range I should be in for it not to actually be dead??

The reason I think its a statrter issue is that never once in these past two weeks has it "tried to start". By that I mean turns the engine over real slow like on a dying battery. Its has either started right up or I just get the click of the relay and no turning of the engine. There has been no in between.

 

You can't tell the health of the battery from it's terminal voltage. You have to load test it. Auto parts stores can usually do this for you.

One thing I look for is self discharge. Fully charge the battery on a tender, then disconnect it and take voltage readings every 30 mins. If you see the voltage dropping, it's likely bad.

By bypassing the solenoid, you mean temporarily jumping it right? Not permanently bypassing it. Because you can't permanently bypass the solenoid, the engine wouldn't stop turning over (on a normally functioning system). Maybe the solenoid got stuck when it turned over on it's own?

Another thing you can test for is the voltage drop from the battery + terminal to the starter motor when starting. There is a lot of current that has to flow between the two, and any extra resistance will cause the voltage to drop before it gets to the starter.

You might have need a new solenoid, but again, your bike turning over with the key off, AND your charging system performance point to two SEPARATE issues that should be addressed. Also note that if your charging system is weak, a new battery will be toast in short order, and that'll get old (and expensive) real fast.

 

but the thing is I dont know if I have/had a charging issue, I could have just thought it was dead since the bike wouldnt start, just the relay would pop.

I just temp bridged the contacts on the solenoid with a screwdriver.

So I guess I should just ride it around and when it wont start, take the battery out and take it to an auto parts store for testing.

Also back to the start staying on when I shut the bike off. Could that be an issue of either the starter its self or the solenoid, or can that only be an issue of the starter button on the handle bars

 

Still at the end of the day, cleaning all of the connectors in your starting system, disassembling the handlebar control switches and cleaning the contacts, and checking your charging system thoroughly are all good practice. You won't be wasting your time doing it. Follow the link that adrian1 posted.

 

Ok thanks....

I thought if you bypassed a starter relay and it still didnt start, it WASNT the relay, or do I have that backwards.......either way they are cheap to replace to it wont hurt to completely rule that out by replacing it

 

You have it right that if you bypass the relay and still don't get it to start, it's not NECESSARILY the relay. Just because the relay clicks doesn't mean there isn't also a problem between the contacts, and it could explain why the engine was turning over without pushing the button. But I could be wrong going down that path.

I'm not well versed in troubleshooting the starter motor itself, but try to rule out simple stuff first. Have you cleaned the cable contact on the starter?

 

so if I ride all day and get to a point where it wont start......if I through the battery on a multimeter and it still says 12-13 volts, its not dead correct

 

If you carefully follow the procedures outlined in the link I posted you will easily nail the culprit!

 

I am off tomorow so the link will be followed.

Weirdest arse thing tonight, for the first time the battery actually was dead, the starter turned slowly until the battery died, so I then pop started it.

Weird part is that I drove at least 30 miles back to my house and check the battery when I got home, and it was still dead, shouldnt it have charged on the 30 mile trek home.

Hooked it up to the MM and it read around 11-11.5v and when I hit the ignition it went down to 0v.

Its on the trickle charger now so we will see if it takes and holds a charge with that.............

tomorrow should be fun

 

Or EVER, not even a tiny bit. Only distilled water. EVER.

 

For the whole time reading this thread I could have swore the picture of your chevelle looked like/was a euphHonium

 

What I dont get is that if my charging systems "test" fine, why doesnt my battery take a charge from it but it will take a charge from tthe trickle charger over night

 

I didn't see your charging system meet spec. Unless your meter has a bias (which it can). But you rule that out with another meter, or testing on a known voltage source with your current meter.

You're battery is most likely dead. How long does it take to be fully charged on a trickle charger? If the answers is "not long" from being completely discharged, then it's not actually storing energy, just coming up on voltage. A trickle charger charges according to voltage, and if the battery is bad, the voltage quickly meets the charging voltage, but the chemistry in the battery isn't actually storing the same energy (capacity is gone). As soon as you take off the voltage source (trickle charger) and draw a load, the voltage collapses.

Deep discharging a battery will kill it fast. I'm not too well read on the chemistry, something about sulfating the plates, but basically, you end up causing a chemical reaction that is not reversible when you discharge beyond a certain point. Reversibility of the chemical reaction is what allows you to recharge the battery.

You will need to verify your charging system is healthy. Test the component ohm spec, even if you think you are close enough to meet the spec on running voltage. Check the brushes. If you get another battery and continue to run it, you'll just kill that battery in short order, and will still need to do the above. Do it now.

 

I posted a video a few pages back with the charging system test

I have a small 1.5 amp charger and I know it takes many hours (at least 5) for it to charge.

 

Hello I have a additional question to go with this. My 85 maxim x xj700 just recently will not shut off with the key. I figured it had something to do with my ignition switch because I couldn't make sense of it. So j removed my whole ignition, unplugged from within the light. I hooked power back to bike and all lights and power came on with no switch even plugged in! Any ideas anyone I'm really confused. Thank you!

 

Is the bike wiring stock as far as you know?

Are you sure you disconnected the correct connector?

Try disconnecting the Rect/Reg Assy and connect the battery. There is a slight chance that the battery charging voltage at the red wire is bleeding through to the brown wire, which is the output of the ignition switch.

 

Yes all wiring is original, and yes I actually took apart the whole headlight and insturmwnt cluster and completely removed the ignition switch to take it apart and clean it. Just took off side cover, looking at wires and took some tape off the connector for the regulator and see that it's been melted together at one point and like you said power from red power melted into the brown wire. Is there any way I can just get the connector and just cut and resplice them back into it again? Thank you

 

Here it is

 

User Chacal (Len) can get you just about any part you need as well as the connectors, terminals, wire, and even rents the crimping tool to do the job if you need it - he also is very responsive and will get you the parts quickly and often times will direct you in the repair if you need help. You can start a conversation with him by clicking on the XJ4ever banner at the top of every page to display the catalogs, then click on his user name to start a conversation - or email him at info@xj4ever.com.

So that is some serious melt and likely the voltage regulator is trash. A continuity check of the diodes could be done to verify if it is indeed shorted and the root cause of the overheating or was it just a result of corroded connectors. Rect/Reg's can be acquired on Ebay or I believe Len also carries used items to keep our bikes going. The continuity of the AC Generator stator windings should also be checked to make sure no damage occurred to them.

A splice could be used to repair, but I would make that decision based on the difficulty of replacing the wire. Replacing the wire would also give you the opportunity to inspect the rest of the harness that could be damaged upstream hidden by the cable wrap.