Anyone converted to Stainless Steel Brake lines?

I want to pull my old lines out and replace everything from the master to slave. Anyone have a shopping list?

I have an '82 Maxim 650.

 

Click on the XJForever logo at the top right hand of this page and you'll find the list you're looking for.

 

XJ4Ever, for sure.

Click on the logo/link in the site banner at upper right; PM member chacal, or send an email to "info AT XJ4Ever DOT com" with your info and what you need.

If your mods include a lower handlebar, take the opportunity to get a custom-length upper line to go with.

You need (2) copper crush washers per hose union and I would recommend new banjo bolts. Rebuild your caliper and master cylinder while you're at it.

 

Working on a walkthrough for a complete overhaul on my 700X. In the meantime, I did do a writeup for just the lines, plus if you're replacing the sight glass in your master cylinder, here's how to figure out which one you should get.

I did a full overhaul on the front brakes for my 750J some years ago -- if you like, I can dig around and see if I still have the invoice(s), which would give me part numbers that match more closely to your 650 than those on the X. Until then I can suggest:

Master cylinder kit
Circlip removal tool for master cylinder plunger (optional, but handy)
Replacement sight glass
Sealant for sight glass
Banjo bolts
Crush washers
Lines
Pads
Caliper piston fluid seals
Caliper piston dust seals
Bleeder screws (speed bleeders are optional)
Mity-Vac vacuum bleeder
Assembly grease (might come with the seal kit)
Port cleanout tool. There's a small relief port in the master cylinder that can get clogged. If you don't have a small enough piece of wire to poke open that hole, you'll want this.
Master cylinder reservoir diaphragm (if needed)
Master cylinder cover screws (if needed)

Of course, if you really want to clean the thing up, there's this armor coating he sells now; you remove any existing paint from the calipers (you can do this with the master cylinder as well), clean it thoroughly (he sells the solvent as well), then spray the stuff on and bake the part.

I've left out a few tools, but that should be enough to at least get you started.

 

I'm also going to say XJ4Ever banner at the top of the page. Went to SS lines this year and love them. The ones Len sells WILL outlast your bike, and be WAY more responsive than any rubber lines. Let him know what bike you have and he will tell you exactly what brake lines you have.

In addition to getting the RIGHT brake lines, the ones at XJ4Ever (from Len, user chacal) are fully DOT approved, meaning the entire cable is pressure tested to 3000psi, not just the hose or end fittings - the assembly is DOT approved.

 

I ordered a Galfer stainless steel brake line kit, post here: http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=40358.html

With crush washers and banjo bolts, it was about half the price Len charges. Sorry Len...

 

The key word being "kit."

As mentioned above, the brake line assemblies Len sells are DoT approved. The whole assembly, not just the components thereof.

"Kits" are fine, if you can trust your life to your abilities to properly assemble said kit. I'd rather have an assembly I know is solidly manufactured, properly "clocked" and will fit correctly. And more importantly, the entire line assembly, not just the components, is DoT certified.

Price isn't the only consideration.

 

"Kit" meaning that it comes with all line assemblies, crush washers, and banjo bolts. Out curiosity, do you happen to know what brand Len sells? And while price isn't the only consideration, it is a legitimate consideration. I am starting to believe that you and Len may be: 1. the same person, or 2. business partners...

 

Nope. I'm just (another) satisfied customer who's successfully recommissioned two XJs so far. The second one was much easier with XJ4Ever as a resource. (I didn't discover XJBikes until the first one was nearly done.)

I think it wouldn't take too much poking about the site for you to discover I'm not alone. A lot of members even have "testimonials" in their signatures.

 

I do want to put S.S. brakelines on.

 

I too am a satisfied XJ4Ever customer. His stainless steel carb bowl drain screws are works of art. However, I found his prices on clutch parts and brake parts to be WAY high relative to the competition... What brand are his stainless steel lines? While I still find it bizarre that XJ4Ever does not have a real website, I agree that Len is a fine American, and a great resource. The simple fact is that prices and value matter, and in some cases Len may not provide the best value.

 

Can't you see I'm busy arguing with Fitz...

 

RickB has a point about prices and value. Value is up to the person making the purchase. Chacal's service is excellent, so when his prices aren't the lowest, a customer should also try to put a dollar amount on that. He ships fast, guarantees the parts will be correct for YOUR bike, fixes any issues immediately (nobody's perfect), and communicates immediately.

Websites can cause issues unto themselves, and he gives you more personal service if you communicate with him directly, insuring, for instance, that you don't mistakenly order carb parts for a mukuni carb when your model has hitachis. That service is difficult to replicate in a website. I agree that this service seems a bit "off" to those of us who are so used to ordering things online without it, however, it is quite "refreshing" too. When I tell other motorcyclists about chacal, they always seem perplexed.

This also applies to his brakelines. The "clocking" that Fitz describes means that if your bike is stock, the lines are just bolt on. They are made to fit YOUR bike, and it's understandable to pay a little more for this service, as he has actually taken the time to ensure the fit and spec this to his suppliers (it's not like there's a resource to just "look up" that information). If that isn't of value to you, there's nothing wrong going to another supplier that costs less.

(from another satisfied chacal brake line customer for a 750 seca, 4 brake lines, and Turbo Seca, 3 brake lines)

 

I've purchased hundreds of dollars worth of parts from Len...SS brake lines were not one of them.

His are probably superior to mine, and most likely worth the cost. I required custom lengths and found what I needed at a special discount.

Fitz concerns about the quality is real, however. The lines are SS but the fittings are not. They are also compression fittings, and not being SS will need to be replace much sooner and looked after much better.

Next time, I'm going with Len, but at the time I needed the lines and the money both!

 

When it comes to value, I truly believe this is dependent on WHAT you are putting value on. For example, the value of, say, a turn signal bulb is just that: a cost-to-effectiveness value. Would I buy a $1 bulb that performs just as well as a $5 bulb? Yes.

Value has to be taken differently when it comes to factors that are, in fact, things your life depends on. Brakes, lines, and rebuild kits in the brake system are something that value must be measured differently. Yes, cost IS a factor - I wouldn't spend $1k on brakes for a bike that only is valued at $800 (chances are if I am that concerned, I would sell the bike and invest in a better purchase). Likewise I would not buy cheap OEM replacement rubber hoses at 50% the price of stainless ones for a bike I plan on keeping knowing I would be replacing them every 2-4 years.

Cost can NOT be the main factor in brake performance. Safety must be a main factor - or the cost taking precedence must be thought hard on before taking any passengers or foregoing any personal safety gear - full helmet as opposed to half, full leathers, proper gloves, back/spine/neck protection. It isn't just a matter of 'how cheap can I have a bike', it is also a matter of 'will I be alive when I am done with this bike to be able to continue to ride on another'.

Now as far as Len is concerned, I have ordered parts for BOTH my XJ's from Len far more than from my local dealership, craigslist, and any other resources. He simply is the best parts supplier. He's honest and has down-sold me on items when I inquired about something I didn't need. If you want all-around knowledge and the right parts the first time, Len is your guy.

Sorry about the rant, but this IS important. We like having our members return and enrich the community - something you can't do when you are dead.

 

Well there might be other valuable suppliers of brake lines that are still safe. I put spiegler lines on my v-star, and you had to clock them yourself. Though it was $80 a line.

 

The fact that so many forum members are willing to spend literally twice as much for sometimes the exact same part (for example: brake pads, clutch friction plates), or to say that brake lines from companies like Galfer, Spiegler, HEL, and Goodridge pale in comparison to XJ4Ever no-name brand (again, at twice the price) is in fact a mind blowing testament to XJ4Ever...

I give...

No mas...

 

Sometimes it's not just getting the parts, but getting the service and KNOWING it will be the right part. Some of it is also supporting those who exclusively support our bikes. Think of it as an insurance plan in a sense.

I will say that there are parts I do NOT order from Len - specifically oil and filters. Why? Because my local Yamaha dealer has the right stuff and I can pick it up same-day. Also shipping certain things can be annoying and pricey.

Hell, even if you don't buy the parts from him, you can always send Len a quick message and ask him about a problem you are dealing with. He's saved me having to spend any money a few times, simply because of easy stuff I overlooked or improper assembly procedures (such as when my front end was malaligned and caused severe shaking in the bike).

He's like your preferred mechanic, always doing a good job, never overselling you crap you don't need, and always getting it right the first time - except he doesn't DO the work, you do. He's also the ONLY parts source for OEM parts if you are doing a full restoration and want to keep everything completely stock.

 

Best deal is on ebay, elite_brakes.

 

Not to add flames to the fire but I just have to get this off my chest. Not that long ago I sent an email over to Len letting him know the 2 parts I was looking to purchase from him.

In response I received a copied-and-pasted 10 page wall of text along with a short note about how some prices have increased. After digging through this text dump I discovered that, lo and behold, one of the parts I had expressed interest in had gone up significantly in price as compared to what was listed in the online catalog and was no longer even close to what others were charging for it.

I also received a quote #, but no quote, which is especially annoying considering I gave the exact part numbers I was looking for and was only looking for a total.

So here I was, trying to decide if I wanted to support the "local" forum vendor or go with someone else. What I'd seen so far is a) higher prices b) a difficult to use "catalog" that you then have to dig through a second time to get the actual price and c) not even enough customer service to provide a short and simple price quote. What I received was essentially a single sentence + copy pasta response that required me to do all the work of pricing things out.

Going into it I really wanted to give him the business and was willing to overlook slightly higher prices for service, but any budding loyalty I felt toward our "local" vendor kinda went out the window with that exchange. Hope it works out better for others and sorry to get things more off track.

 

Madmusk, I know that one of chacal's strategies is to give you more info than you originally asked for. He wants to make sure that you know of every part available for the job you are trying to do, and of all the options that you have. I cherry pick from his lists all the time, you aren't supposed to get EVERYTHING. I'm sure it earns him more business, but it can also make your restoration more complete.

The "quote" is for each individual part, not the total. His prices do change, and he doesn't update the catalog prices anymore. I would guess that he operates on some fixed margin over his supplier prices, so if they go up, so does his.

I'm sure his prices on yamaha brand parts isn't much different, but all of the aftermarket options that he offers, from dealing with suppliers directly, are usually a lot cheaper, and he stands behind what he sells.

Just send a couple of messages back and forth with him, and I'm sure your opinion of his service will improve.

 

I as well can vouch for chacal. I just ordered ss brake lines through him. They are top notch. Got them put on and my calipers that I had rebuild wouldn't apply the brakes. Turns out I need a mc rebuild. Not only did confirm my diagnosis he emailed me picture pdf forms of how to complete a rebuild as well as even answered questions about removing my brake light switch. He also saved me when rebuilding my forks everyone said I needed a 19mm hex to lock into my damper rod to pull apart the forks. He chim'd in letting me know that on my maxim x it is actually 21mm.


I agree that his quotes can be confusing at first but after a few pm's it makes perfect sense. He normally will remind me of parts that I need that had somehow slipped my mind.

 

Usually a lot cheaper??? What parts are you talking about??

Examples:
EBC Organic brake pads (HCP1705): Len - 44.95; Market - <$25.00
EBC clutch friction discs, set of 8 (HCP1641SET8) Len - 117.95; Market - <$60
Stainless Steel Brake Line set with banjo bolts and washers (82 XJ750RJ Anti-dive): Len - $241.65 (plus shipping); Galfer set $123 shipped free

 

Or in my case:

OEM fiber paper valve cover gasket for XJ650R: XJ4Ever - $41.95. Ebay - $19.92.

Sorry, but I just can't stomach a 100+% markup on parts when I'm already paying as much as the bike is worth just to get it in good running shape.

 

Rick, remember there are people here that don't know squat about bikes and any extra info they get with a part is very valuable.
if you were fixing something you knew very little about you'd appreciate any help you got and might not even care that you paid a premium for it.
i'am going to put new glass in a i-phone4, i hope it comes with instructions and pictures, if i got it from Len i know it would. i would expect to pay more for it.
sometimes you want to buy local, sometimes cheaper, sometimes your not quite sure and you want it right.
i just wish he had stickers

 

Rick, i just saw you have bmw's, i ordered some parts from Max BMW and got a bag of M&M's and a hand written note that just said "thanks" with my parts. i'll never buy bmw parts anywhere else

 

Occasionally I don't mind paying Len more. Support a small business, and pay back for some good advice. Also, some stuff can't be found anywhere besides Len.

Other times I don't. Usual maintenance stuff and most tools can be cheaper elsewhere. Brake hoses I had made at a local hydraulics shop. Very high quality, correctly clocked, and cheaper.

The shopping experience does leave something to be desired. His ordering system is very 150 years ago. I bet that's what it was like using the Sears catalog. Not having any idea of the prices is kind of annoying. I bet it also makes for a ton of useless work for him when people see the price and decide to pass. On the other hand, the customer service is very good and the advice is valuable.

 

I wasn't talking about OEM parts, or name brand aftermarket parts that you can buy at bikebandit or ebay. I'm talking about every little screw, nut, washer, and o-ring that you need to rebuild, for instance, a carb. Sure there may be a "one size fits most" kit, but with chacal, you get the exact parts that fit your exact bike.

O-rings are just o-rings, and if you don't mind ordering in batches of 100, you can get them for WAY cheaper than chacal. But you only need 4 (or 8 or 20). Then you need to get the ID, OD and thickness right. All this can be hard to measure on a crusty broken one. Plus it needs to be the right material (fuel melts some o-rings, brake fluid other, oil is different too). Once you figure out all the details, you could order them for cheap. And even sell the extras. And that's what chacal does, because it's not trivial getting those kind of details, for EVERY little part on a dozen or so different models of XJs.

Same goes with fasteners. Sure screws are cheap, but finding the correct ones isn't all that trivial. I know I've spent way too much time at Home Depot trying to find a matching metric screw for something I wanted to fix right away. Chacal's done that leg work, and you pay him for it. If you want to do it yourself to save money, that's fine too.

Then sometimes, if the parts cost isn't that much higher for something I can get else where, I order from chacal, because he is such a trusted supplier, and I know exactly how long it takes to get here. And I know I won't be ordering the wrong part because it doesn't actually fit the model that's listed. You do pay for that service, and it's important to recognize that when making decisions.

 

When you say 'Market' value, where exactly are you comparing Chacal's parts to? There is a definite difference between StealerShip and FleaBay. Chacal is competitive within the reputable parts suppliers. Yes, some things can be bought cheaper elsewhere, but will you also get the specialty mounting brackets (such as with DynaCoils) and a guarantee that the parts you buy will be EXACTLY right for the application you are going for?

Yes, you CAN get parts cheaper, if you care to gamble on having it RIGHT. I ordered aftermarket bulbs for the turn signals for my XJ650 from Amazon (a supposedly reputable supplier) and had to send them back and exchange them because the wrong bulbs were sent out. I have NEVER had this problem with Len, and I have ordered as many times from him as I have from Amazon.

 

i have a parts manual for my bike,all i do if i need a part is google the part number and take it from there and compare, pretty simple usually

 

Sorry about the "market", just being lazy...

Also sorry about your bulbs...

EBC brake pads from Amazon or Powersports Plus here for less than $23 with free shipping...

EBC clutch friction plate set from Amazon here for $67. I got mine for $56 a few weeks ago...

I come to forums like this one and others:

http://www.bmwsporttouring.com/
http://forum.boxerworks.com/
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/

for help (and to help) with maintaining motorcycles. Without these resources and the folks who contribute to them, I could not afford to own and safely operate my bikes. However, I work too hard to spend TWICE as much money for the SAME PART. A few bucks more to support a local or small business is one thing, but TWICE AS MUCH?

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400334518225?ss ... 1497.l2649


i just found these and couldnt pass them up. they whoop any other price ive seen.