No gas cap key

The ignition key does not work in the gas cap of my barn find. Does anyone have advice on how to get into the tank with minimal damage?

 

its probably the right key ,but the lock is stuck.
turn the tank over and remove the petcock or fuel guage sender unit , turn back over and drain any liquid still in there.
pour in some penetrating oil (u.s.a. guy's reccomend kroil), not sure what that is! but pour enough in to cover the bottom of the cap stem, let it sit a day or two, upsidedown.
then try working the key back and forth.
other than that, its destroy the cap by wacking a suitable screwdriver into the lock, then twisting it free.

 

Shoot some WD40 or something similar into the key way. Let it sit a while and try the key again. I had the same problem.

 

Folsoml,

What they ^ said, plus push down real hard on the gas cap. The sealing washer inside the cap might be crumbling not allowing the spring to compress.

Gary

 

You are correct. I've been soaking it in WD 40 for a few days. The key will now turn about half as far as it needs to to open the cap. I'll keep soaking it and working it. I've already drained the fuel {crud} from the tank. If this way doesn't work, I'll try filling it with penetrating oil.

 

This dang thing ain't opening! I've filled the tank with penetrating oil, and have had it sitting upside down pretty much since my last post. It's not budging!

 

Get some kroil!

 

As you have tried all lubrication measures, follow bensalf advice and either destroy the lock tumblers with srewdriver and force it open.

Or as some locksmiths do, drill the tumblers then any key will fit!

 

Order it through Harbor Freight and you can still get free shipping: https://secure.cnchost.com/kanolabs.com ... r_hf.shtml

You're going to need it anyway. It works when all others fail.

 

Before you do ANYTHING else......

Sometimes the latch gets hung up on the rusty tank ridges......try this.....


As you turn the key, use the heel of your other hand and try to push the cap down as far/hard as you can on the top end of the capto release spring pressure and/or corrosion restance on the inside of the tank. If the 'dogs' are hanging up on the edges of the tank, often you can relieve the pressure and the key will turn the rest of the way.

If you have the key and it can turn part way, DON'T drill anything until that becomes a last resort. Keep working at it without getting frustrated and then breaking things. It SHOULD loosen up eventually. I've had some that take a week or two of "work at it, then walk away for a bit before getting mad, etc....."but they've always finally worked out. I only drill them when I have no key and no hope for a key.

'Let us know what happens...........

Dave Fox

 

A 50-50% mix of aceton and ATF (automatic transmission fluid) has made wonders for me to loosen up stuck parts, if you have both of them on a shelf, it's time to give it a try. It is very fluid and penetrates easily betwwen stuck parts.
You should store the mix in a air-tight glass or metal container, though.

 

I tried everything everyone on this thread has suggested--including the ATF/Acetone mixture. Nothing worked. Drilling the tumbler was not a viable option. The key would turn in the lock about 1/4 of the way, but not enough to budge the dogs. The pictures below show what I eventually had to do, It's not as extreme as it looks. The tank developed a small hole in the bottom that would have required tending to anyway. Once it was done, I realized nothing else probably would have worked anyway. Once I cut it open and could seen the bottom side of the cap, I could tell it was a rusted shut hunk of, well, rust. Even with access to the bottom, I continued to soak it and work it to try to get the key to work. I would try to assist the key but working the dogs with a screw driver. They did not even act like they wanted to move. I tried to remove the screws holding the lock mechanism to the cap, but they, of course, were rust tight. I eventually drilled them out.

The inside of the tank appears as though a PO left it upside down for a long period of time.

I'll say this: It's a lot easier to clean the tank out with the bottom half off!

 

http://www.xj4ever.com/gas%20cap.pdf

 

That's more typical of a tank that's left partly to mostly empty....

the moisture collects on the upper part and rusts. That's why we recommend that the tank be kept filled full during storage months.

Congrats for finding a new solution to add to the bag


Dave F

 

Good point about long term storage. The only other good way is to completely empty the tank, remove the petcocks and open the gas cap and let it stand in the sun for a couple of hours, until the tank is bone dry inside.
It a lot easier to just fill it up to the cap with gas, preferably with no ethanol, that traps moisture.

 

Plus if you're gonna empty and then dry the tank, you should actually coat the inside with an oil......snowmobile fogging oil is a great one, there are others, too.

Dave

 

kroil really that good ?? better than liquid wrench ??

 

Have you ever heard anything about "wool wax formula"? I have a spray can of so called "Fluid film" here . The label claims that the product is solvent free, non-toxic, is a superior lubricant, a rust and corrosion protection and a long term penetrant. I used it in two barn-kept motorcycle engines as a fogging oil to prevent rust in the cylinders. I actually can't SEE if it works or not, at least the engines are not ceased.
That product smells pretty funny, though. Any feedback from other members would be appreciated.

 

Never heard about either 'wool wax formula' or 'fluid film'.

Elk......as far as Kroil--

I am ALWAYS highly suspicious of ANY "AS SEEN ON TV" type of stuff. So, when everyone started touting PB Blaster, I was probably the last one to jump on to it, and only did so after a local junk dealer put me onto it as he uses it for disassembling everything. I borrowed a can from him to try for a bit, and found it to be much better than liquid wrench, penetrating oil, etc....

THEN.......everyone started talking about KROIL...........so ok, here we go again---the next greatest thing since sliced bread. WELL, long story short--in the town across from where i work is one of the nations largest arms manufacturers--Remington Arms. Some of my students' parents work there, and in a conversation one time we were talking about historical guns, restoration, etc..... and I asked him what they use, as I had been using PB and did they have something better (being a big company that would have a "secret" oil. He said, we use a stuff called "Kroil". I said that I had heard about it before, and have been holding out til seeing 'proof' that it's really that good. He said, "we buy it by the pallet-load".

So, I bought some the next day based on Remington's recommendation. I always keep it on hand now, and actually try the PB first--if that doesn't help it let go, then I get out the Kroil. Why the PB first? Because I can get PB a whole lot quicker than Kroil. So I try to stretch the Kroil out a bit. I am SOLD on it.

Dave F

 

So I understand that you are sold to Kroil! Here is some info i got on the web about Fluid film, if I understand well, the active ingredient is lanolin:

http://www.kellsportproducts.com/index. ... 4AodC2cA4g

 

Here is something I read on another forum:

 

well......I'm sold ON it, I'm not sold TO it

Dave

 

Oops, sorry, my English is not THAT good!

 

That's ok........... just wanted to be clear about that . LOL

 

This fuel tank is giving me fits!! After I cut the bottom off, I discovered rust had eaten away at the inside of the tank. As a result, I have about roughly one million little tiny pinholes. I've been going through trying to spot weld them up, but no matter how many I fix, there's always a bunch more. I intend to use a tank sealer kit when I get it all back together, but I want to get it as sealed up as possible before that point.

Does anyone have a suggestion on how I should proceed?

 

Get a different tank.

You're gonna spend waaaay too much time doing what you're doing, you're gonna spend way too much for a sealer kit, and then you're gonna be waaayy to ^%$#ed off when it doesn't work.

Get a different tank. Ebay and xjBikes are your best friends. Get a different tank.

Get a GOOD tank.

Dave F

 

That's one thing I keep envisioning myself doing in my later years... if I had any fab skills worth a damn, I'd be building new tanks from scratch out of stainless.

 

Using this logic, I should just buy new bikes, but what fun would that be? I've got plenty of time, so I guess I'll just keep chugging along.

 

You stated:

This fuel tank is giving me fits!! After I cut the bottom off, I discovered rust had eaten away at the inside of the tank. As a result, I have about roughly one million little tiny pinholes. I've been going through trying to spot weld them up, but no matter how many I fix, there's always a bunch more.

then asked:

Does anyone have a suggestion on how I should proceed?

I replied:

Get a different tank. Get a GOOD tank.

I think that's pretty evident that that would be the best way to proceed.

If you're going to argue what people suggest, then say you have plenty of time to just chug along..............why did you ask? Hey, have at it.

Have fun welding your million pin holes. In a few more years, let us know if you ever get the bike running. Hopefully the pinholes that you have already welded now, haven't re-rusted through by then.

Good luck, carry on.

Dave

 

Light years. I never heard of it either.

Oh, and I'd just find another tank. Any other solution will turn out to be false economy.

 

If you had read the build up of his cb650 over on the cb650 forum. You would understand better his logic about reapiring the tank he has.

Folsoml
First off. Welcome aboard over here. Glad to see you over here also.

To save yourself some time, and hassle. Get the Por15 tank sealer kit. It will comes with an external patch kit to be applied to the outside of the tank. Once this is done you can treat the tank to remove the rust, and apply the internal sealer.

Once the tank is sealed you continue on with the prep, and paint work.

Fair warning though! If you are dealing with a considerable amount of pinholes. There is not much solid metal left, and it would be advisable to keep your eye out for a better tank. You will most likely need it eventually.

Ghost

 

I was not arguing, I was making a joke. Perhaps I should have put an LOL behind my comment.

And MiGhost, I did end up scrapping that tank. It WAS more rust than tank. This one just SEEMS salvageable because it looks so good on the outside. Couple that with the fact that I got a MIG welder for Christmas--I'm just LOOKING for stuff to weld :lol: .

 

I have a line on an 81 tank. Will it fit on my 82?

 

Gas tank are bad news to weld anyhow. Petrol and a welder, not good, not too mention tanks are usually fairly thin, thin metal can be an SOB to weld. As soon as I read cap not opening, my first thought was wrong key. On every bike I have ever had, they have had a separate key for the ignition, the tank, the seat and the helmet lock, so I thought "You don't have the key its not opening". But when you said WD-40 loosened it up and it started to turn, I thought rust, rust everywhere. Definitely use the new tank. I imagine an 81 would fit an 82, but don't quote me on that.

I LOVE ATF and Acetone mix! The stuff damn near crawls by itself.

 

Got the 81 tank and it does fit. It has some dents in it, but, after giving it a preliminary cleaning, I was able to take the bike around the block for the first time {Yay!}. I've now taken it back off, thoroughly cleaned the inside, and have taken out the dents. Later, I'll finish sanding it down and get it primed to paint.