I got a xj650

Hey all fellow riders, just wanted to give a little shoutout to every xj fan out there and intoduce myself.

i go by the name vito, i bought a xj650 '82 back in november, didnt have time to really work on it since i was heavely bombarded with college work. my buddy and i cleaned up the bike, and the carbs i have ridden it about 5/6 times and i gotta say i love it dont want to get rid of it.

*EXCUSE ME IF THIS IS UNDER WRONG SECTION THIS IS MY FIRST FORUM I EVER JOINED DONT KNOW HOW IT WORKS YET*

but like every bike that has been sitting for 5 years its bound to have problems. heres my main problem the manifold intake boots. they are cracked and ripped and Home Depot window siliconed all over. i mean the lady that drove must have done red neck fixes to it. when i took them off to see how bad they were.... well they fell apart the rubber was in that bad condition, i dont want to put them back on, i was thinking of buying new ones but they are expensive (at the moment i dont have the money so im trying to cut a corner). then i got a bright idea what if i welded a bracket with a drilled hole (to mount to the engine) and then weld on a 1.5" pipe to it (this would either be steel or aluminum if i can find some aluminum) then i would use a 1.5" silicone intake hose to mount the carbs to my homemade intake manifolds.

would this work?
i understand there is a slight lean angle on the intake manifolds, but my couplers would have some flex on them no?
problem is, its to expensive for me to buy 4 new intake manifolds... AND I WANT TO FREEKIN RIDE!!! lol

any comments, concerns or warnings would much be appreciated

 

Welcome here!

I'd say you don't have to buy new ones, I'm pretty sure you could find used ones in good shape. Put your request in the "Sell, trade, swap, wanted" forum.

 

You might want to check the date codes on the (probably original) front brake lines and come to the realization you shouldn't be riding the bike.

Based on your description of the bike, you're looking at about $600 ~ $800 to "freekin' ride" as you put it.

I'm not sugar-coating this, it's a 30-year old bike. Even if you manage to get it running, it won't be reliable (carbs, manifolds, valve clearances, gaskets) or safe (BRAKES, front and rear) until you do a certain amount of work AND invest a certain amount of money in the process.

Fixing the intake manifolds won't give you a safe reliable bike. And honestly, if you can't afford to replace the intake manifolds, you can't afford to put this bike back on the road. There are a dozen reasons your fix won't work; get ahold of XJ4Ever and see about a set of manifolds.

Ask anybody on this forum that's actually DONE it-- you're looking at about $600 minimum if you really expect to ride this 30-year old, high performance motorcycle. Ancient brakes, tires and carbs won't let you do otherwise. (Thankfully, you could die.)

Sorry, just being honest.

 

BigFitz wrote:

Sorry, just being honest.[/quote]

IMO sorry would be knowing you are in danger by riding your bike in its current state and not saying anything. As mentioned before there is a list of things you need to do to make your bike safe and road worthy. Welcome to the club...you are in the right spot. The 650 maxim is one of the more common bikes here so you shouldn't have any problems with Q & A. Good Luck with her.

Gary

 

Sounds severe at first but all true.

 

lol what i mean by freakin ride is, i just want to ride around, im not planning to race it i dont need high performance just to be able to ride it,
the brake lines i put on new ones and new brake pads already that was the firs thing i did, seemed kinda logical to do (i just didnt bother mentioning it)
my buddy (he rebuilds bikes and sells) also replaced the battery, solenoid, filter, spark plugs, and wires, rebuilt the front break and most of the electrical components i guess i should have specified what i already worked on, i am waiting on my engine gasket kit to come in and a rebuild kit for the petcock, new hoses were installed and new tires.

i know i shouldve started with the carbs lol -_-

i dont have money at the moment cuz i spent it all lol on the bike, and to rebuild my car (i need something to drive during the winter so that was first priority to fix the cars water pump, crankshaft, and brakes (did that over winter break, while buddy worked on my bike (yes i did pay him lol im not a free loader, and normally i like to do the work myself)) and also i had to put some money away for college so i kinda used up alot hahaha
so now im just trying to find an alternative way...


again sorry for the disorganized writing lol

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/XS650-Aluminum- ... bc&vxp=mtr

somthing like this is wat they would look like (what i had in mind) i do have access to a cnc router printer

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1982-Yamaha-XJ- ... cb&vxp=mtr

btw would these fit? or is the angle wrong??

 

All fitz is saying is you need your brakes to have high performance when you need to use them (when a cager cuts you up) :wink:

You spent in the correct order, carbs ARE last because when it runs sweetly you WILL want to ride & may be tempted with old brakes/tires otherwise (I was.... one time, and it was terrible! )

To be honest your cheapest & easiest option if you simply cannot afford new is to buy good used from a member (we don't sell each other tat here ) Those 1100 ones look nothing like 650 to my eye. Check out the for sale area first chance you get

 

thank you for your input guys, ill try to find some used decent ones for the time being

 

Meant to post a link earlier but forgot, this might be the guy to ask http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=41645.html

But be quick to ask, as someone else is interested in the engine & it'd probably go with the rubbers attached if they don't sell separately

 

Also another guy just posted that he's parting out a 650, but I can't vouch for him as he's a 1 post member...

Just another point, noticed you didn't mention the rear brake SHOES at all. See the first link in my signature (under the big red heading!) for the reason you should change the shoes even if they *look* just fine 8O can be nasty....

 

That might work. One thing, though - you need to have vacuum nipples on them to synch the carbs and to run the vacuum to the petcock.

No. 1100 are different size.

 

in my head it makes sense that'll work and the only set back is the pipe on the inside would be shaved down to an angle on the inner diameter
so the ending pipe that goes to carbs will look like < not [
so there wouldnt be a turbulence, but a somewhat kind of ramp that allows air to flow right in

 

The bolt spacing (center-to-center) will be different; as it will with the XS650 parts.

 

no i dont think so, i will not be buying that part i will be cutting and welding the pieces just the way i need them i have metal lying around i know how to weld its not rocket science lol i was just curious if anyone else had done this or messed around.

i spoke with chacal and he said it should work because the angle on the original manifolds is not big.

fitz what do u think of this setup (diaphram, then the custom made part, with silicon coupling, held by t clamps, and the vaccume nipples) i realized this yesterday that if it ever needed service even then it would be alot cheaper to service rather then buying new rubber intakes

 

Did you catch this post earlier on? :?

 

yes i did!!!! thanks so much im waiting for reply, but from that link somehow i found a post from yesterday where they guy has the full bike still and i asked him for a price on petcock (i want to have an extra one), 4 intake manifolds and the Brake master cylinder.... he gave me a total price of 70$ including shipping and all 6 parts. i think ill buy it actually. so i must thank u sooooo much for posting that link!!

 

That's really pretty good price wise, probably would have cost as much to make your own inlets, plus you got a master cylinder & petcock too

Is it a well known/long time member? I know the regulars will absolutely NOT sell rubbish to a fellow XJ owner but obviously can't 100% vouch for some of the people in that forum who only have one post etc. Not saying they will screw you, just that a long time XJ'er will absolutely NOT screw you :wink:

 

hes a wanna be biker.. not sure how this order stuff works but im guessing hes pretty low on status? i am a tad bit skeptical about it but so far he has been pretty informative and i havent seen any hints of it being a scam... but im still cautious about it. hopefully it legit :/ cuz then its a bargain

i dont think hes a fake though cuz i found him on xs650 website... he seems more active there though http://www.xs650.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25766

 

I think the intakes that you wanted to make would work. The flange mount (intake to head) would be the difficult part. Would need to be 100 percent flat and made of a material that wouldn't warp from excessive and prolonged heat. And of coarse would require a vac nipple.
Could be done, but a good bit of work and then there's the space issue. This would push the carbs back away from the motor some and that may cause other problems like carbs hitting the frame, airbox and airbox boots. I learned from my carb mod that one mod can lead to many others. As these original intakes are getting harder to find, this might be the route more of us will need to go. :wink:

 

Ah yes, he's buying parts for his XS on that site... yes if the deal's legit then I'd say very fair price, maybe get him to list them on his ebay buy it now under an obscure title (so nobody else can beat you to them!) so you got paypal behind you if he'll do that.

O&B made some good points about consequential modifications if you did make your own, the originals do keep the carbs in just the right spot...

 

idk about the spacing when i eyeballed it with a tape measure everything fit in pretty good, and i was able to use the airbox boots, but it got me thinking i might as well make a mod for that also idk about that yet though.

and if this does work out good then i think ill be thrilled because the silicone couplers last alot longer than the rubber, and they are easier to replace

next post is my plan of action so scroll down and give me ur thoughts

 

so as of now im deciding what metal to use, i was thinking of making them lightweight and use aluminum (6061) and one of my friends in college is a welding teacher so he can do aluminum. for the flang part i was thinking of using a 2mm thick sheet of aluminum and for the pipe part a 2mm also or slightly smaller. idk if this will hold against the heat (ive asked around and people told me it should, no problem) just want your input.

if this doesnt work i was thinking steel, but thats a less wanted road id take since it would add weight.

 

this is a quick CAD rendering ... if i have time ill do the entire setup in cad... if i find time later today i might do a solidworkds rendering to give you guys a clear picture


http://flic.kr/p/e6ASt2

sorry idk how to imbed the pic into the post

 

Solid aluminum will warp over time, that's why most intake manufacturers use cast aluminum or cast iron, it takes the punishment longer. Mild steel would be better than the solid aluminum and can be mig or arc welded, but will add some weight. If you use the steel, I would use 3/16 thick plate for the flange(would need to be perfectly flat so as not to leak), and 1/8 x 1" to 1 1/4" diameter x 1" long pipe. Won't feel heavy separately, but when adding them all together. :wink:

 

so ur saying to have a pipe 1 1/4" outer diameter. 1 1/8" inner diameter and a 1" length? keep in mind the outer diameter of the carb's is 1 1/2"

this kind?

https://www.speedymetals.com/pc-3467-82 ... -tube.aspx

if i do steel then i might as well do a 1/4 thick flange its, alot stronger.

im surprised that a 3/16 or even 1/4 6061 would warp :? its melting point is 582 - 652 °C (1080 - 1205 °F) bike engines dont noramlly go over 300 (after asking around, and 300 is considered high)

 

BigFitz is right. It takes a considerable amount of money to get the bike safe and rideable again. I had to throw a lot of cash at my XJ650 last year, but it was well worth it, having a safe and reliable bike. 800 minimum is right, but it sounds like you did a lot of the work already.

 

I said 3/16 flange to cut down on weight and will be strong enough. OD of pipe should be the same or close to the OD of the carb inserts/barrels. I used 1 & 1/4 to make my 2 into 1 intakes, so was just throwing out an example.
BTW if you use the stainless steel you'll need different wire/rods for your mig/arc welder.

 

They can't be dead-flat 90* straight like in the CAD rendering; take a CLOSE look at the originals. The "spigots" are angled, they don't sprout straight from the motor.

While this idea might work initially, I'd be very concerned about reliability issues once subjected to the heat and vibration of the running motor and road vibrations, plus you do have space constraints. Especially if you want to keep the airbox. Remember that rack of carbs weighs quite a bit, the further from the motor you "hang" it, the more stress it puts on your intake stubs.

There are probably a whole lot of reasons we have no clue about that were behind why Yamaha used the design they did. Give it a shot, and we'll probably find out what they were. I'm not trying to discourage you; personally I gave up trying to out-engineer Yamaha a long time ago.

 

Agreed. it's easy to get suckered into trying the odd "fix" since it does work with other manufacturers, but Yamaha seem to be pretty thorough with their designs somehow.

Probably cost less in time/aggravation AND $$$ in the end if you can find some proper intakes. Did that guy ever get back to you that was parting out a bike?

There's a couple of sets on Ebay.com now under "xj650 intake manifolds", one's $150 the other is brand new in bags for $250. Expensive but will last you 30 years so you could think of them as costing $8.33 a year!
They're both advertised as for 650/750 seca/max as well so that at least gives you more options for who to ask in the trading area here if they are the same for both engines...

 

They're not all the same; it depends on whether it's a YICS motor or not. Most eBay sellers mis-list stuff, you can't depend on eBay listings for cross-reference info.

 

When I said "make sure it is 100 percent flat", I was talking about the flange that would bolt to the head. That's why I later said that it would need to be flat to ensure a proper seal and not leak(pertaining to fuel mix or taking in more air that would affect fuel mix). Sorry if I wasn't getting the point across. :wink:

 

Got to thinking this over some more. I see a potential problem with the rubber couplings holding the weight of the rack of carbs. Don't know just how stiff those couplings are, but they seem to have been made to support one carb each and not the added weight of the rack. If you go this route, it may be necessary to make a bracket for support to keep the rack level and not dip down at the back.

 

I'm not that inclined to trust factory engineering. A lot of the time the reasons are "cost" and "ease of manufacturing". Like, how all the screws on these bikes are made of butter-soft steel instead of nice hard stainless.

 

They only support part of the weight.....the other side of the carb rack is held in place by the rubber boots and clamps from the airbox.

besides, I've never head of a set of boots collapsing under the weight of a carburator set.....

dave F

 

He wasn't referring to the original rubber manifolds. The "boots" in question are those that would be holding the carbs onto the machined aluminum intake "stub" manifolds.

 

True, but I thought we were talking YICS motor here. Academic to be fair since I can't see him spending $250 on new ones if he's strapped for cash :?

EDIT-: Ah it's an '82 so could be either then...

 

All right fella's heres the update i ended up finding a salvage yard that had 1 last set of these intake boots that they were going to trash. the ones i got are nice and soft, not a single crack, and from a bike with low miles. since they werent in much need of them i was able to get them for 50$ and the guys at the shop were supper nice! they are only 35-40 minutes away from me and they have anypart you need pretty much from 90+ (80's arent to popular but they have a majority) so i saved 200$ im a happy camper!

now Orange n Black: i have considered supports not only because i was worried but just to give it a more sturdy sitting! and i read ur build forum, im proud of you for trying a different air intake setup! i salute you and my heart goes out to you for not being able to ride anymore, may your pain ease up and i hope you regain your health.

750E-II_29Rbloke: that guy never responded to me.. bad communication so i ended up going to the salvage yard and got the same things i needed.

bigfitz52: ur right they are not 90* so back to the drawing board :/

bigfitz52 & 750E-II_29Rbloke: it is a YICS motor.

jPaganel: im not giving up this easily these rubber boots arent eternal and i will come up wiht something! there is always a way, i just need to get this thing running again because its getting really warm here in Philly! so ill com up with something!


another note worth mentioning i finally started my season of landscaping (i have a landscaping business) , i have quite a few projects to be done and they pay good $$$ so this bike is no longer on a cheap build list (though it never really was haha)

 

heres a thing i could use your advice on something which of these would fit my engine best and yes it is a '82 xj650 YICS which one is the one for me and can someone please!!! explain the difference?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/80-82-YAMAHA-XJ ... 6543280%26


http://www.ebay.com/itm/82-83-YAMAHA-XJ ... 6543280%26

 

The 82-83 is the one you want, the big difference is in the head gasket (the black one top left of the pic) and the 81-82 will not fit.

See on the 82/3 it has that extra section coming out? That's the bit that seals in the YICS passages

Also the valve cover gasket is different & some other bits may have small differences too. Glad to hear your success story with the inlets, nice find

EDIT-: $110 seems a reasonable price too for a proper full gasket set with stem seals & all. Think it works out as £45-50 so about half the price of an XJ700 head gasket only!!!

 

Glad you found the boots, that's the best way to go. Thanks for your comments.

 

alrights the thing is they are from japan and i found a USA provider now im curious which are the ones for me?

http://www.partsnmore.com/parts/yamaha/xj650/?filters[category]=engine&filters[fitting]=custom&filters[year]=1982#product-18-0150

if someone can scroll down and tell me which one i need.. there are to versions. under the price it says xj650 and xj650r..... if im not mistaking the xj650r is the seca turbo one? and i would need the xj650 right?

 

I'd still go for the Japanese ones to be honest, would still work out cheaper than the US based ones (which are made in Italy anyhow lol).

I'd imagine it was the 82-84 you'd need from the US supplier but they don't have a lot of info & the pic is awful too...

 

i took your advice and went with the Japanese ones after all i guess a week difference isnt to bad especially since with shipping im saving 15$ although the weather is like high 70's almost 80's for this week here in philly.

and now a new question to everyone: has anyone done any custom body work such as (molding and then creating) your own fenders, making your own tail lights, windscreens, etc? or does everyone on this site try to stick to the stock look? if yes can i see any pictures?

 

look around with the search thread. There are a lot of custom XJs on this site. with complete build details and pics. if i find the threads ill update

 

alright right problemo numbero 1....when taking the boots off 4 of my bolts broke and they are stuck in the block

 

Yea that's not good.

Weld a nut onto the stud and soak them with kroil.

Otherwise it's off to the machine shop....

 

Common "feature" of yamaha's stock bolts unfortunately, mtnbike's advice is good if you can get a nut started on the stub to weld it on. If the broken end is flush then the only option would be to get them carefully drilled out & either clean up the original threads if possible or have them helicoiled.

Once you've got the head ready to accept new bolts make sure you use decent quality (or stainless) replacements & plenty of antisieze...

 

yeah i had quite an adventure with the tapping -.- ill tell you guys a bit later and show pictures once i figure out how to upload.

so i put my bike together and as i ride i switch into 2nd gear rpms reach 3,500 max and the gear pops back out into neutral. before i started doing work on the bike i had this problem but the max rpms i could go to before it would jump out into neutral were like 5,500 and then drops into neutral. if i rev 2nd gear up to 3,400 and switch to 3rd gear... well 3,4,5 work properly, so does 1st gear. i asked around and everyone says its a shifting fork.. is anyone familiar with this problem? do you know which fork it is?