Is this a symptom of a stuck float?

So today I was putting my bike together after checking/adjusting valve clearances and was very excited to put the bike back together until I saw this inside the crank case:





Hopefully you can see it, there is a drip forming at the bottom of the disk. It's a gas/oil mix

I think this is possibly a sign of a stuck float?
But what I don't understand is how the heck it is getting in there?

 

Well I suppose I will just update this myself to keep track of my progress.

After finding the gas/oil leak it was time to take off the carbs so it was time to take a deep breath and go for it.

After getting the rack out without tooo much trouble I see gas seeping into cyl #1, could this be the culprit of gas in the oil?



There was a surprising lack of gunk in the bottom side, but no that doesn't mean I am not going to give it a good cleaning.



But then... The bowls seem to have rust in them 8O



So now it's time to look in the gas tank...

 

So today I did a bit more wrenching.

After going through the carbs well I put them back together, and assembled them back on the bike. Floats seemed very functional, which was peculiar, because it looked like gas was trickling into cyl #1 when I took the carbs out.

I am going to test the float levels whenever I get time to look at the bike again.

Tonight I went to drain the oil since I would have to do so anyway before I attempt a startup. I almost got a stream of gas/oil to the face when I got the drain plug off because it basically had the viscosity of pure gas!!!!

Oddly enough, the oil in the oil filter housing was mostly oil, just a very slight trace of gas.

So. Another thing to check is the petcocks. Hopefully at some point there will be an end to the madness, everything will be fixed, and I will get to ride 8)

 

How do your float needle tips look? Can you feel any kind of a groove set into the rubber? Id save myself the trouble and just replace them all. Then dry set them n then wet set them. Then before you do anything else rebuild that petrooster forsure buddy. Just to avoid burning up your power plant with such gas oil.

 

I just had same problem as the previous owner swore it had carbs cleaned ect . would up changing oil 3 times before i got fed up and pulled carbs . dont go cheap spend the money for 4 quality rebuild kits and do it right . i did including petcock rebuild and new fuel lines . inline fuel filter also . now after valve adjust and yics sync she runs like a dream and no gas in oil

 

All my floats were good it was the float needle letting fuel by

 

With sediment in the Bowls, ... you should clean the Carbs.
Flush the passages with a Syringe.

When you have Gas contaminating the Oil, ... the Petc0ck is probably leaking.
Test it.

One thing that can be a safeguard is to install a Fuel SHUTOFF just after the Petc0ck.

Hardware Store.
Briggs & Stratton Fuel Valve.
$9.95

 

You're out of sequence here.

The float levels are best checked with the carbs OFF the bike, since it's much easier to get them level and they have to come off to make any necessary adjustments anyway. http://www.xj4ever.com/setting%20fuel%20levels.pdf

On the 1100, the petocks themselves are just "selector valves." The vacuum-operated fuel valve is a separate piece, mounted elsewhere (I've rebuilt them, never seen them actually on a bike.) That assembly is where the fuel flow is controlled. It's easy enough to test; if it drips fuel in "ON" or "RES" with no vacuum applied then it's not working correctly.

The rust residue is indeed from your tank, which is why an inline fuel filter is a must.

But you need to go back and set your float levels. An out of adjustment float can cause a problem as much as a stuck one can.

 

Thanks guys.

Float needles looked good, no grooves or anything.

I did dry set the float levels with the carbs off. I made an attempt at checking the levels with the clear tube method but was having trouble. So I am thinking of doing it back on the bike so I don't have to worry about trying to make another fuel supply and hanging it up haha.

I guess I got a bit anxious
If the levels are not correct off the carbs will have to come again.

So since the 1100's petcock is just a selector valve, will rebuilding it not do me any good? But yes, an inline fuel filter is definitely a good idea. I will look into the usual placement of the filter but I assume it is placed in the line from the petcocks?

 

You missed my point in regard to the fuel system. The petcocks themselves are only selector valves, yes; but THERE IS A VACUUM OPERATED fuel valve, it's just that it's discreet/separate from the petcocks. It's still vacuum operated, with all of the issues that the vac-op petcocks have.

Take a close look at the configuration of the "octopus" that supplies fuel.

The problem with checking float levels ON the bike is getting the BIKE propped up so the carbs sit level.

 

Okay, I was going to ask if it was the octy that you were referring to.

And yes the whole getting the carbs level thing could be fun, I was hoping that putting a few small pieces of wood under the front wheel would get the rack level.

 

In my view, ...

The Vacuum Operated Petc0cks, Shut-offs and Roll-over Valves were reliable Fuel System Parts which performed their important functions for a quarter century.

Faulty elements that have become problematic should be replaced.
R & R.
Removed and Replaced.

Buying a Brand New Component is almost a break-even venture.
$35 to 40-Dollars for a Kit.
2½ - 3 Hours Labor at $20.00 @ Hr for your time = close to a C-note.

($20 Hr is LOW. Shops in New England get nearly $100.00 per Hr )

 

so what i'am reading here is gas oil mix will pass through the seal on the crank but oil by itself won't. just fix the carbs and the crank seal will heal itself.
i never knew that

 

Just bought a shutoff valve like the one above.Got the 650 running great,had to put it on reserve.Shut it,came out to a puddle of gas under it.Checked petcock...wouldn't shut fuel off.(I know it's a vacuum style)

 

I can't tell if Polock is being sarcastic? I am just unsure because polock is quite knowledgeable haha.

Anywho. Update time.

Got the bike together and running, started up pretty quick once the carbs were filled up! This is good...

But check the bike today after getting up, and there is gas in the airbox, filter is soaked pretty good.

So things to do:
- As rickcomatic advised: some R & R for the petcocks. Remove and replace necessary parts.
- Remove carburetors again. Paying super close attention to the float needles and everything to do with the whole float assemblies in general.
- Once that stuff is done and back together, change the oil again as there is probably some gasoline in it.

Lessons learned:
- As the "wizards" of the site all state, do it %100000000000000 correct the first time or the carbs will be coming off again.

I am now comfortable with taking the carbs off and putting them on again, which leaves me feeling slightly accomplished, but the task is not complete yet.

Obstacles to overcome still: Wet setting the float levels. I had trouble making a contraption to keep the bank level last time, and also had trouble hoisting up an aux fuel tank and trying to hold up the tubes at the same time lol.

Back out to the garage!! Crummy weather will only be here for another couple of weeks in mn!! .... I hope 8)

 

I think Polock could well have been being sarcastic since a leaking seal is a leaking seal.

However in this case I think the reason the oil/gas mix escaped through the crank seal is down to two things. Firstly, the gas/oil mix was very diluted, a lot thinner than the oil that the seal normally has to hold back. Secondly, the level of fluid in the crankcase was probably above the level of the seal putting extra stress on the seal & allowing it to leak as the engine stood.

Still something to keep an eye on once the carbs are sorted. Is it just me, or is it a pain in the rear to replace the crank seal on these motors? looks like the cases have to be split, surely not? :? 8O

By the way, do you have inline fuel filters? If the tank has rust coming out & not being trapped by an inline filter then even perfect carbs are going to block up/leak within seconds of the petroosters being turned on...

Edited to take into account extra filter required on twin 'rooster setup

 

You can make a carb rack holder out of some PVC elbows and pieces. Just a few bucks to make it. Somewhere here in the forum is a pic of one that I copied. Also, I used a heavy plastic bottle that had a pointed nozzle on it to wet set the floats. Once your ready to check the wet set, attach a fuel line to the bottle and invert by hand. To drain, just attach the bowl drain tube to the nozzle and drain. Wet setting does take a lot of patience. I worked on mine for about 3 hours before getting the right, but you will solve fuel from running into your airbox or oil and the bike will run better because of it.

 

Just because the float needles and seat look good, doesn't mean the are not leaking. It sounds like they still are. First, I would take care of everything suggested about fixing the petcock/vacuum valve. Easy enough to check once its fixed or even before fixing it, by setting the tank filled with some fuel on a bench having the petcock off and no vacuum. So nothing should flow/drip out of the fuel delivery line. Not a bad idea to clean out the tank while you are at it. Install an inline filter as suggested. Very hard to get the tank completely clean. And you don't want to have to go through this again even if it is fixed this time around. The next step may not be applicable to your bike. I don't know much about XJ carbs so don't know if the needles are rubber tipped or not. If not, take your valve seat and needle and try lapping them. I used rubbing compound on the valve seat with a Que tip. And then some more compound and cleaned the needle tip. Then with more compound I lapped the valve seat with the valve needle for a bit. Cleaned off every thing with carb cleaner. This finally fixed my leaking issue.

P.S. I had originally replaced my needles and valves with some from the K&N rebuild kits I used to rebuild the carbs. But those seemed to leak. So that is when I put the originals back in after lapping them.

Here is a link of the rack holder I made which works with a workmate bench. Helps make leveling the floats easier. I should have made some legs going up as well so I can turn the assembly upside down when needed.
Clear Tube Method

 

Thanks guys!

Yeah that's why I figured he might be sarcastic about that. But my oil was very very gas diluted haha It has never leaked from there before the gas was introduced so I am not overly concerned but will continue to monitor it. Yes the crank seal would be a beast to do, way more over my head than what I'm currently doing haha. But yes bloke, I have a filter for each of my roosters I am rather unsure of the exact location / which lines I will be putting them in though. Space is quite tight before the octy on the left side!

Speaking of the petcocks.. they are off!

Right Petcock


Left Petcock - more gunk / rust on this side


Right petcock valve - slight flaking of the rubber in a few parts


A few pics of the Left petcock valve - a definite chunk gone in what seems a critical part of the valve, probably leading to the drips even while in "on" without any tubes hooked up






SO:
I think I will definitely be getting new petcock valves at least. I assume though they do not come separately but must come in the "rebuild kit".

Probably use this opportunity to slosh something around in the tank as well and get any other junk out of it.

Sorry I like pictures! Here's another one of my helmet taunting me :lol:

 

Wow, roto rooted roosters! 8O

Yeah I'd imagine that nicked rubber would be the cause of the leaking rooster, and all that rusty crap's the likely cause of the leaking float needles

That lid looks like it's grinning at you!