WOAH! Starter motor lead wire loose!

I don't want to sound all doom & gloom, but I'm wondering if the motor may have been good but the P/O removed the brush plate to hide a bad starter clutch (that's one reason I wouldn't mind seeing how good/bad the rest of the starter motor is, plus if you can fix it for less than the $75 & the starter clutch is OK then bonus!)
After all, chances are you'd be fitting new brushes to a second hand motor anyway for peace of mind so if you bought them you could transfer to a secondhand motor if the fix didn't work on the original. Should be able to find a long bolt in the hardware store or make one from threaded bar...

 

i dont know anything about the motor or what the parts that are missing look like, much less how they go in and the brushes etc... sounds outta my range. how do i check the starter clutch? and how can it run so well on a good batt charge if it was bad? hmm im just learning about this... im more comfortable buying a new unit to avoid screwing up something else i'd hav eto pay for

 

No worries, if you're not confident doing repairs then buying is the better option just potentially cost a bit more (I like fixing stuff even if it doesn't save money just to prove it can be done lol, it's not too hard for the most part either).

To be honest the starter clutch is probably OK but was just thinking it was a possible way to hide it, since the only way to know is by using the starter to turn the engine over. Chances are it's fine & the P/O was just a hack who lost half the motor.

The starter motor or starter clutch doesn't have anything to do with charging the battery, that's the alternator's job (the larger cylindrical part on top of the engine case next to the starter), so at least that would seem to be behaving itself

 

actually, i am having a battery drain problem. i will try to put on another battery and try it.. but the voltage should increase on my meter when i rev the engine in neutral. it does not... it just pulls the life out of it... maybe thats bad... the atlernator :/ im glad i didnt pay much for it

i hope the new battery test proves the battery just isnt holding a charge.

 

The alternator doesn't really begin charging till around 2500rpm, a common fault with it is the brushes being too short (should be at least 10mm) or gummed up. It's easy to check them, you just take the cover off the end of the alternator & there they are in the cover. Also worth cleaning up the slip ring on the rotor (the copper part the brushes ride on).

Could you add your bike details in your signature please, makes it easier to remember what we're working on, Thanks

If you have a multimeter you can also test the field coil (between the 2 copper slip rings, should be 3.6-4.4 Ohms) and the alternator windings (unplug the 3 white wires & take Ohm readings from each one to both others, should be between 0.41-0.51 Ohms).

Maybe the P/O even confused the starter & alt & tried to fix the charging by hacking the starter lol

 

Does anyone have a good general charging system thread going.. If not maybe we should start one.

So anyway, basic components (right)

Battery: Stores Juice.
Should show 12.3V or so across the terminals. Might work down to 11.5 or so depending on whether the bike runs a TCI (will usually work with lower voltage) or points (good luck).
Should also have good electrolytes (we're not trying to grow plants, we're trying to create a medium for electrons to move). Top off with distilled water if cells are low. Try not to boil it if you need to charge it.

Stator/Alternator:
General wire test...
White Three Phase wires:
Should have significant resistance (i.e. stator coil is not burnt up and grounded out) between each of the white wires and ground.
When the bike is running and revving a little, can have up to 100V AC coming out of each of the wires.
One common occurring theme in related threads, check your brush lengths!!

Regulator/rectifier:
A diode pack that modulates the 3 phase ~75VAC current from the Stator/Alternator into a ~+15VDC current to run the bike and charge the battery. If your bike is running and you're not at 14+ volts, reg/rec or stat/alt may be bad.
You can check the diodes on the reg/rec with a multimeter on the resistance setting. Diodes work by allowing current to flow only one direction. If you find the right pins (red is usually Vout and black is usually ground on these things) you can check each of the three phase voltage inputs (white wires) to Vout and GRD respectively. They should have little to no resistance one direction and almost infinite resistance the other way. If they don't, reg/rec is probably bad.

This is a start and if anyone has a good explanation for the way the regulator (Brown and green wires work on the solid state reg/rec models) please add that here. Thinking through this stuff, I could use a refresher.

 

nice, that was a GREAT run through. and a good order to check it in as well. I will start going through parts tomorrow. I rode it around for about an hour today, no drain on the battery although it likes to ride at 11.5V or so. Even
took it off and put it on a tender. charged up 100%, put it on and started it... went back to 11.5 or so and stayed there. I think i may have drained the battery the other day by trying to pop start it too many times. It's behaving so far. my plan is to get a starter motor and solenoid going first... then if things dont change... and the bike cant work with a new fresh batt. which i have on my other bike- ill start that charging checklist!

thanks alot everyone. and thanks to aSECAwrencher for that bad Ass procedures list

 

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=27543.html

 

ELECTRICAL SYSTEM OVERVIEW:

Electrical problems can be terribly difficult to diagnose properly. Electrical and fuel-related problems manifest themselves in the same ways: hard starting, mis-firing, poor performance, back-firing, etc.

Although the electrical systems on XJ bikes are fairly durable, there are a number of known, common problem areas on these bikes, which are compounded by the fact that these bikes are 25+ years old.

The fusebox is the most critical area: the stock one may have been adequate in 1981, but it's now old, outdated, and ready for the dust-bin of history. We carry replacement ATC-style fuseboxes and in-line fuse holders which allow you to easily upgrade your original.

The generator brushes wear down over time, change their electrical characteristics as they age, and need periodic replacement. They are available as complete brushes with holder assemblies, or brushes only. By the way, in a technical sense, your bike is really equipped with an Alternator, not a Generator (as Yamaha calls it), since the output of that electrical-generating device is an alternating (AC) electrical current, which is then rectified into a direct (DC) current via---you guessed it---the rectifier section of your Regulator box......

Anyway: finally, in a general electrical system sense, the wiring harness on your bike is getting old---and like most vehicle wiring harnesses from this era, they aren't (and never were) the most robust things ever made. Corrosion, weak connectors, and other assorted issues will cause you all sorts of headaches and the agony of electrical troubleshooting nightmares if not addressed and remedied.

An exceptional write-up on the electrical system on XJ-series bikes---the good, the bad, and the ugly---can be found at:

http://web.archive.org/web/200712140435 ... aqbig.html

I highly recommend that you visit that site and PRINT OUT the FAQ (you never know when a web page might disappear from the web), as it is the "Electrical Bible" for XJ owners!



CHARGING SYSTEM:

CHARGING SYSTEM OVERVIEW:

The following guide to understanding your charging system was contributed by Dwayne Verhey, extreme XJ-Wizard.

There are two main types of alternator systems commonly used on motorcycles. Both types depend on a magnetic field, created by magnets in the alternator rotor, to induce an electrical voltage and current flow in a stationary coil of wires-----the alternator stator. If you ever get confused as to which is which, just remember that the rotating component is the "rotating rotor", and the spaghetti-like bundle of wires is the fixed-in-place, "stationary stator"......

The first type is the permanent-magnet rotor system (used on Virago, V-max, and FJR models, among others). In these systems, the fixed-strength magnets in the spinning rotor generate a constant-strength magnetic field, and thus excite the stator coil constantly; thus the alternator puts out 100% current at all times and the voltage regulator merely serves to shunt any excess generated current to ground. The advantage of the permanent-magnet system is a reduced amount of system complexity, but at the cost of increased heat and power losses (since the alternator system is generating power, and thus using up engine horsepower, constantly).

The XJ-series of bikes follows the more common automotive model, which employs variable-strength electro-magnets in the rotor. In these systems, the variable-strength magnets in the spinning rotor, when energized, are used to form the magnetic field which excite the stator. The voltage regulator controls the voltage output by varying the input voltage applied to the rotor's electro-magnets, and thus varies the strength of the magnetic field. If the system voltage drops, the voltage regulator increases the voltage fed into the rotor electro-magnets, thus increasing the strength of the magnetic field that the magnets produce, and therefore increasing the excitation (output) from the stator....and thus the alternator output voltage increases.

In both systems, the stator windings are 3-phase. Each stator wiring bundle (there are 3 of them, and each bundle is called a "leg") kicks out similar voltage, but 120-degrees out of phase with the adjacent leg(s). The resulting AC currents are then rectified (changed) to DC current via a 3-phase bridge rectifier, made up of 6 diodes, such that current in any leg flowing in either direction is directed back into the system as 12-volts DC (actually, around 13.5 to 14.5 volts DC, when everything is working properly).

If you lose a leg, or even a single diode, it is possible to still achieve voltage if the load is minimal, but as current requirements increase, the alternator will not be able to meet the challenge and the battery will have to take up the slack. Of course, as the battery drains, the available voltage is reduced, so the maximum rotor field voltage is reduced, so the current output is reduced, so the battery has to take up more slack, so ....

The end result is the battery discharges and the bike won't start.


If you suspect alternator issues, first check the resistance on the wires to the rotor. Dirty rotor commutator rings, corroded connections, etc.----all of these problems will reduce the available rotor field voltage. Next, check the condition of the connectors from the alternator to the rectifier (the 3 white wires). There's usually 2 connectors -- one from the alternator, often hidden behind the battery box, and the other near the regulator. Corrosion in these spots will reduce the stator's outputted current (bad corrosion will often melt the connector, as the outputted current turns into heat rather than being delivered to the battery). Third, with the engine running, back-probe each of those 3 white wires at a connector to ensure voltage is being generated on each leg. Finally, using a multi-meter and following the directions in the manual, check the function of each of the 6 diodes in the rectifier to make sure the power is being properly rectified from AC to DC.



IGNITION SYSTEM OVERVIEW:

Before we get into the list of components within your ignition system, it may be useful to explore the basics of the ignition design used on these bikes, as this knowledge may help you to better recognize, troubleshoot, and repair performance problems with your engine that you think may be due to these components.

The ignition system actually begins at the left end of your CRANKSHAFT, since the rotational position of the crankshaft determines the position of the pistons and of the camshafts. Obviously, since the purpose of the entire ignition system is to deliver a high-voltage spark at the plugs at exactly the proper instant----meaning, as the piston approaches Top Dead Center of the compression stroke----then the ignition system must "know" what the position of the crankshaft is in order to transfer that information (via electrical signals) to the major components: the PICK-UP COILS, then onto the TCI UNIT, to the IGNITION COILS, via the PLUG WIRES and through the PLUG CAPS and finally, onto the SPARK PLUGS.

But it all begins at the crankshaft, which has a flat metal ROTOR DISC bolted onto the left side snout, and which hides under the left side, round "Oil Pump Cover" (also called a "YICS" cover on YICS-equipped engines). This spinning rotor disc has a small magnet embedded within it's outer tip, and as that outer tip rotates past the fixed magnets within the PICK-UP COILS, the interaction of magnetic fields triggers a small voltage in the pick-up coil wires that lead to the TCI UNIT.

Note that since the rotor disc is fixed in position and spins along with the crankshaft, this rotor disc "knows" the position of the crankshaft at all times. And since the pick-up coils are bolted in place, and are thus stationary, whenever the spinning rotor passes by a fixed pick-up coil, and thus triggers it to send a voltage signal to the TCI, in this way the TCI unit thus also "knows" where the crankshaft is, rotationally-speaking, and thus where the pistons are in relation to Top Dead Center and when their spark plugs need to be fired.......

Also note that since there are only two pick-up coils for your four-cylinder engine, that each pick-up coil is actually providing the "firing signal" to the TCI unit for two different cylinders. In these engines, one pick-up coil is responsible for sending the signal to the TCI that eventually leads to the spark plugs firing off for cylinders #1 and #4 at the same time, and the other pick-up coil sends the message to the TCI unit to fire off spark plugs #2 and #3, again, at the same time.

Although this may seem odd at first, the mechanical arrangement within the engine of the crank throws, and thus the rods and pistons, as well as the camshaft timing, allow this situation to proceed without a problem; in fact, when one of these "paired" cylinders (for example, #1) is approaching Top Dead Center of it compression stroke----and thus is in need of a spark from its spark plug----it's "mated" cylinder (#4) is also approaching Top Dead Center, too.........but on its exhaust stroke.......and so even though cylinder #4 gets a spark at its spark plug, there's nothing in the cylinder to combust, and thus it's a "wasted" (yet harmless) spark that occurs in cylinder #4.

Obviously, the exact same situation occurs in the mated pair of cylinders #2 and #3.

In fact, the whole system is known as the "wasted spark" system, since one of the two sparks that always occur at the same time is "wasted" on a cylinder that is on its exhaust stroke............


Anyway, to continue our journey: when a pick-up coil is energized by the passing magnetic field of the spinning rotor disc, it send an electrical impulse signal to the TCI. Therefore, the TCI unit now also "knows" the position of the crankshaft (and thus of the piston). Using other sensor information.....primarily, the rotational speed (RPM's) of the engine......the computer chip in the TCI is then responsible for calculating exactly when to send a "message" to the proper IGNITION COIL to release it's energy to the proper cylinders. And note that we said "cylinders" (plural), since just like the pick-up coils, one ignition coil also sparks two cylinders at once (part of the same "wasted spark" method discussed above).


The ignition coils use a rather small (12V) input on their primary side to product a large (20,000V +) amount of electrical energy on their discharge (spark plug wires). When the TCI unit determines that "the time is right" for a particular coil to fire, it grounds that coil, which collapses the small magnetic field inside the primary side of the coil, which thus induces a large electrical field in the secondary (plug wires) side of the coil, which then rushes to ground (the plugs are grounded to the head). This electrical energy rushes down the non-resistive PLUG WIRES, through a resistor in the SPARK PLUG CAP, and finally jumps a small gap in the spark plug electrode on it's way to ground, and thus the spark occurs that fires the air-fuel mixture (in one of the two cylinders being sparked at the same time), things go boom, power gets produced, and you're on the way down the road........


By the way, the firing order for the 550 thru 900 engines is 1-2-4-3, with the two center pistons coming up while the two outer pistons are going down.



Now, What Could Go Wrong?:

Well, remember, all of these components are basically used to transmit knowledge of where the piston is within it's four-stroke cycle, and to be able to deliver a spark at the appropriate time to each cylinder to take advantage of the compressed air-fuel mixture in the cylinder (during the compression stroke). So it sometimes help to understand these component pieces as being mainly responsible for providing this stream of precise information, and the electrical-spark making (at the spark plug gap) as merely being the natural (according to the laws of physics and electricity) end-result of all this information handling and processing.


Now, unless your crankshaft was installed backwards (an impossibility, by the way!) or the camshaft was installed improperly (or if the camshaft drive chain has skipped a tooth----not a common occurrence, at all), then we can safely ignore all of these issues. And since the spinning rotor disc used to trigger the pick-up coils is bolted firmly in place at the end of the crankshaft, it can be ignored for troubleshooting issues.


But the pick-up coils themselves can go bad over time, and even though it's rare, it can happen. No pick-up coil signal out----along their wires to the TCI unit-----means no signal into the TCI unit, and the whole system breaks down. Which means the small wires from the pick-up coils to the TCI had better not be pinched, shorted to ground, or broken internally, or the message just won't get through.

NOTE: if you are having intermittent or difficult-to-diagnose ignition system problems, it may be that the wire leads from the pick-up coils (under the left round crank-end cover) have become pinched where they exit the cover and have worn through their insulation.


Of course, if the TCI unit itself is defective, then even if it is getting a signal from the pick-up coils, it is unable or unwilling to process the signal, or the signal gets processed incorrectly, and either the signal doesn't get sent to the ignition coils at the proper time, or doesn't get sent at all.


But even if the pick-up coils and the TCI are performing flawlessly---which they usually are----if the ignition coils are not getting enough voltage input to them, or, if they are not able to multiply the small incoming voltage into a much higher output voltage (that is, after all, their main purpose in life), then we have a problem.

Worn-out ignition coils, or coils that perform poorly or get cracks in their outer cases (and thus short out when moisture enters their internal shells), are a common cause of ignition system problems.


And even if the coils are performing properly, if the spark plug wires have an internal break, or an external break, and thus prevent the coil electrical output from reaching the plugs, then nothing good is going to come from all this activity.


Of course, the spark plug Resistor Caps also play a role. They have a tiny resistor embedded within them, and the purpose of the resistor is to provide, of course, electrical resistance to the flow of electrical energy. There are a couple of reasons why some resistance is necessary-----it helps eliminate electrically-generated Radio Frequency Interference "noise" (RFI), it provides a "cushion" against instantaneous electrical energy pulses (which is really hard on small, fragile electrical components, such as the capacitors and transistors in the TCI unit), and it "slows down" the passage of the electricity through the spark plug, thus providing a sort of "electrical Viagra" to spark at the plugs, allowing the electrical discharge (and thus the spark) to last a bit longer (instead of being instantaneous), thus promoting more-better and fuller combustion of the air-fuel mixture.

In fact, outside of the RFI suppression issues, it is the control of this "spark burn time" that is really the most critical issue, especially on bikes that are jetted a bit lean to begin with........as increased electrical resistance in the secondary circuit will increase the spark firing or "burn" time, and that longer burning spark assists in the more complete combustion of harder-to-fire lean fuel mixtures.


But those resistors in the spark plug caps........or in the spark plugs themselves, for those engines that use resistor plugs........do wear out over time. And when they do, their resistance increases, which means that they provide more resistance to the flow of electricity than is needed. So that 20,000 volts of electrical energy, instead of being discharged at the spark plug gap in a rather short (10 milliseconds) amount of time, gets "spread out" over a much longer period of time, and gets reduced in voltage, too. So when plug caps or plugs "go bad", they rarely fail to the point where no spark occurs at all, it's just that the electrical output is being "spread out" over such a long period of time that the energy being created in the spark plug gap is so low that it's not enough to fire the fuel mixture completely (or at all)........and that's what leads to hard starts and poor performance (and reduced gas mileage, too).

By the way, as you may have figured out by now, a spark plug that is contaminated ("fouled") by carbon or oil deposits, or one which has too large of a gap, fail to operate properly mainly because such situation can greatly increase the electrical resistance characteristics of such a plug.........and now you know why that's not a good thing.


A very good review of the issue of electrical resistance in ignition systems can be found at:

http://www.ultralightnews.com/enginetro ... dplugs.htm

Although the above article references the ignition systems in ultra-light aircraft, the same concepts apply to all ignition systems.


Okay, so that's your nickel tour, and although it's not as detailed as it could be, hopefully it's enough to get you started. A good voltmeter (also called an ohmmeter) is an invaluable friend when trying to track down ignition system problems, as you must make sure that the "information" between components is actually able to travel from Point A to Point B properly, and that the individual components are, electrically-speaking, able to process and transmit the electrical information properly.


A good companion write-up to this subject and some trouble-shooting guidelines can be found at:

http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=21932.html



Ignition system firing order:

It's 1-2-4-3 for all engines.



Ignition system components resistance specifications:

The following list also covers the resistance values of the spark plugs, plug caps, the ignition pick-up coils (which are located behind the left side round crankshaft end cover)m and the ignition coils. The resistance of the pick-up coils can be checked at their connector to the TCI box by measuring the resistance between the grey and the black wire (this checks the condition of the first pick-up coil) and then between the orange and the black wire (this is the resistance of the other pick-up coil).

NOTE: "K" is abbreviation for a thousand units, so "5K" ohms = 5,000 ohms of resistance, etc.


XJ550 models:
Pick-up coils:
650 ohms +/- 20% = 520 ohms to 780 ohms acceptable range


Ignition Coils:

Primary side (input from main wiring harness):
2.5 ohms +/- 10% = 2.25 ohms - 2.75 ohms acceptable range

Secondary side (spark plug wires, without their end caps):
11K ohms +/- 20% = 8,800 ohms - 13,200 ohms acceptable range


Spark plug caps:
10K +/- 20% = 8,000 to 12,000 ohms per cap acceptable range

Spark plugs:
0 ohms per plug




XJ650 models:

Pick-up coils:
1980-81 XJ650 Maxim and Midnight Maxim: 700 ohms +/- 20% = 560 ohms to 840 ohms acceptable range
1982 XJ650RJ Seca (non-yics engines): 700 ohms +/- 20% = 560 ohms to 840 ohms acceptable range
1982-84 XJ650 Maxim: 650 ohms +/- 20% = 520 ohms to 780 ohms acceptable range
1982 XJ650RJC Seca (yics engine): 650 ohms +/- 20% = 520 ohms to 780 ohms acceptable range
1982-83 XJ650 Turbo: 120 ohms +/- 20% = 96 ohms to 144 ohms acceptable range


Ignition Coils:

Primary side (input from main wiring harness):
2.5 ohms +/- 10% = 2.25 ohms - 2.75 ohms acceptable range

Secondary side (spark plug wires, without their end caps):
11K ohms +/- 20% = 8,800 ohms - 13,200 ohms acceptable range


Spark plug caps:
5K +/- 20% = 4,000 to 6,000 ohms per cap acceptable range

Spark plugs:
0 ohms per plug




XJ700 air-cooled models:

Pick-up coils:
120 ohms +/- 20% = 96 ohms to 144 ohms acceptable range


Ignition Coils:

Primary side (input from main wiring harness):
2.7 ohms +/- 10% = 2.43 ohms - 2.97 ohms acceptable range

Secondary side (spark plug wires, without their end caps):
12K ohms +/- 20% = 9,600 ohms - 14,400 ohms acceptable range


Spark plug caps:
1985 N/NC models: 5K +/- 20% = 4,000 to 6,000 ohms per cap acceptable range
1986 S/SC models: 10K +/- 20% = 8,000 to 12,000 ohms per cap acceptable range


Spark plugs:
1985 N/NC models: 0 ohms per plug
1986 S/SC models: 5K ohms per plug




XJ700-X water-cooled models:

Pick-up coils:
120 ohms +/- 20% = 96 ohms to 144 ohms acceptable range


Ignition Coils:

Primary side (input from main wiring harness):
2.7 ohms +/- 10% = 2.43 ohms - 2.97 ohms acceptable range

Secondary side (spark plug wires, without their end caps):
12K ohms +/- 20% = 9,600 ohms - 14,400 ohms acceptable range


Spark plug caps:
1985 XN/XNC models: 10K +/- 20% = 8,000 to 12,000 ohms per cap acceptable range
1986 SX/SXC models: 15K +/- 20% = 12,000 to 18,000 ohms per cap acceptable range


Spark plugs:
1985 XN/XNC models: 0 ohms per plug
1986 SX/SXC models: 5K ohms per plug




XJ750 air-cooled models:

Pick-up coils:
650 ohms +/- 20% = 520 ohms to 780 ohms acceptable range


Ignition Coils:

Primary side (input from main wiring harness):
2.5 ohms +/- 10% = 2.25 ohms - 2.75 ohms acceptable range

Secondary side (spark plug wires, without their end caps):
11K ohms +/- 20% = 8,800 ohms - 13,200 ohms acceptable range


Spark plug caps:
1981-83 models: 5K +/- 20% = 4,000 to 6,000 ohms per cap acceptable range
1984 RL models: 10K +/- 20% = 8,000 to 12,000 ohms per cap acceptable range

Spark plugs:
0 ohms per plug




XJ750-X water-cooled models:

Pick-up coils:
120 ohms +/- 20% = 96 ohms to 144 ohms acceptable range


Ignition Coils:

Primary side (input from main wiring harness):
2.7 ohms +/- 10% = 2.43 ohms - 2.97 ohms acceptable range

Secondary side (spark plug wires, without their end caps):
12K ohms +/- 20% = 9,600 ohms - 14,400 ohms acceptable range


Spark plug caps:
15K +/- 20% = 12,000 to 18,000 ohms per cap acceptable range

Spark plugs:
5K ohms per plug




XJ900RK, RL, N, FN, and F models:

Pick-up coils:
120 ohms +/- 20% = 96 ohms to 144 ohms acceptable range


Ignition Coils:

Primary side (input from main wiring harness):
original coils, marked CM12-20: 2.7 ohms +/- 10% = 2.43 ohms - 2.97 ohms acceptable range
replacement coils, marked CM12-09 or CM12-10: 2.5 ohms +/- 10% = 2.25 ohms - 2.75 ohms acceptable range

Secondary side (spark plug wires, without their end caps):
original coils, marked CM12-20: 13.2K ohms +/- 20% = = 10,560 ohms - 15,840 ohms acceptable range
replacement coils, marked CM12-09 or CM12-10: 11K ohms +/- 20% = 8,800 ohms - 13,200 ohms acceptable range


Spark plug caps:
RK and RL models: 5K +/- 20% = 4,000 to 6,000 ohms per cap acceptable range
N, FN, and F models: 10K +/- 20% = 8,000 to 12,000 ohms per cap acceptable range
S and SH models: 15K +/- 20% = 12,000 to 18,000 ohms per cap acceptable range

Spark plugs:
RK and RL models: 0 ohms per plug
N, FN, and F models: 5K ohms per plug




XJ1100 models:

Pick-up coils:
120 ohms +/- 20% = 96 ohms to 144 ohms acceptable range


Ignition Coils:

Primary side (input from main wiring harness):
2.5 ohms +/- 10% = 2.25 ohms - 2.75 ohms acceptable range

Secondary side (spark plug wires, without their end caps):
11K ohms +/- 20% = 8,800 ohms - 13,200 ohms acceptable range


Spark plug caps:
5K +/- 20% = 4,000 to 6,000 ohms per cap acceptable range

Spark plugs:
0 ohms per plug



IGNITION PICK-UP COILS:

One of the nice things about the stock XJ electrical systems is the transistorized (maintenance free) ignition systems.......no points to set or timing to adjust (except on 1986 XJ700-X models). All of those dreadful chores are handled for you, automatically, via the IGNITION PICK-UP COILS SYSTEM, and further down the line, via the TCI CONTROL MODULE. These components are generally very reliable, almost to the point of being bulletproof, and as mentioned, are truly "plug-and-play" devices that need no periodic maintenance once installed. However, they are quite susceptible to damage via electrical shorts or voltage surges (i.e. if you jumper the battery incorrectly, etc.).

Checking pick-up coils: the resistance across each pair of lead wires (at the TCI) should be as follows. NOTE: if both coils are out of specifications, suspect a pinched or shorted black ground wire, which is a shared ground for both of the pick-up coils on most models. It is very unlikely (although not impossible, especially in a case of improper jump-starting, etc.) that BOTH pick-up coils would expire at the same time!

A simple test to see if the coils are working, at all is to place a voltmeter (preferably an analog unit) across the Grey or the Orange wire to the Black wire. Energize the system and watch for voltage pulses as you rotate the reluctor past the pickup. This can be done by hand or with the starter.......we'd recommend using the hand method so that the pulses are slow enough to see. These "pulses" are what the TCI "black box" counts and interprets when "deciding" when to fire the ignition coils.

NOTE: the orange lead wire is the trigger wire for the #1/#4 ignition coils, while the grey lead wire is the trigger for the #2/#3 ignition coils.


120 ohms +/- 10% for all XJ650 Turbo models, XJ700 all models and XJ750-X models, XJ900RK, RL, N/FN, and F models, and XJ1100 models.

650 ohms +/- 20% for all XJ550 models, 1982-84 XJ650 Maxim, 1982 XJ650RJC Seca (Canadian, yics-engine), and all XJ750 models.

700 ohms +/- 20% for all 1980-81 XJ650 models and 1982 XJ650RJ (non-yics engine) models.




TCI UNITS:

Yamaha (thankfully!) used a TCI (which stands for Transistor Controlled Ignition) system on all XJ-series bikes to control the coils, timing, spark advance, etc. A TCI unit is an "early" version of the now-common electronic control systems that are used on virtually all modern vehicles of almost every type, and even these early versions are completely maintenance-free and very rarely cause problems...........which is a good thing, because original TCI boxes are no longer available new.

When engine performance problems develops, many people immediately suspect that the cause may be within the "black box" workings of their TCI unit, which is unlikely. The factory service manual gives "instructions" for diagnosing TCI problems, and it basically says "test every other possible cause for your problem and if no other cause for the problem exists, only then should you "suspect" TCI failure, but before you buy a replacement, first try to find a known, working TCI unit from a similar bike and plug it in on the problem bike, and see if the problem goes away............"

Well!

There are three main problems that TCI units succumb to after years of reliable service:

1) bad solder joints on some of the internal components (known as "cold solder joints") result in the component pieces coming loose from the circuit board, and thus they can no longer perform their function reliably (or at all).

2) component failure......a blow-up transistor, a burned circuit trace, etc. This situation can develop if you have a short-circuit in your electrical system, or hook up your battery or jumper cables incorrectly, etc. TCI units do not like "big blue sparks" in the electrical system (except at the spark plugs, of course!).

3) another common failure of these units occurs if the TCI is continuously grounding the ignition coil (i.e. its output driver is shorted). You can verify this situation with an ohmeter with the following tests:

- disconnect the 2-pin plug at the ignition coil and measure from the orange or grey wire to the chassis. You should see very high resistance. This should be pretty close on both the working and non-working channels.

- if you read a few ohms of resistance or less, then the TCI is bad. A shorted driver will also make the ignition coil run very hot and may ruin the coil.

4) dirty external terminal connections.


Bad solder joints can be repaired by someone who is skilled at that sort of diagnosis and repair, and even individual circuit components can be replaced, but it's tough to find someone in the modern world of "pitch-and-plug" skill-sets who actually has the skill and patience to do this type of work. Yamaha gave absolutely "zero" electrical specifications for checking the condition of the TCI units, besides the afore-mentioned "check everything else first" type of diagnosis.

But you can perform a simple set of tests to determine whether your TCI unit is good or not, without having a second, known good unit to install in place of the suspect unit. Although these instructions were written for XS owners, the exact same thoughts apply to the TCI units on the XJ-series of bikes:

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.ph ... tci+repair

The above is stolen, borrowed or even plagiarized from Randy Rado's site before it went away. It does require an analog meter as digital multi-meters do not show the swing of the needle that is required to test it.

"Using a voltmeter set on 12VDC, connect the positive meter lead to the Orange or Grey coil lead at the TCI. Connect the negative meter lead to the black (negative) lead at the TCI. Turn on the ignition. Voltage should come right up to about 10 - 11VDC. Crank the ignition and observe the meter. Look for a wide voltage swing during cranking. A strong swing indicates that the pickups and TCI are working OK and your trouble is between the TCI and the plugs. Possibly a bad ballast resistor, bad coil, bad plug cap or just corroded connections. Repeat this test for both Orange and Grey coil leads."

All of the XJ-series TCI units are of the "4RO" style as described in the above article.

Video here:

http://s307.beta.photobucket.com/user/r ... 5276167517


And if the above isn't enough, if you feel the need to get medieval with your TCI unit, well, then it doesn't get much better than this:

http://www.jetav8r.com/Vision/IgnitionFAQ.html



IGNITION COILS AND RELATED:

OEM and aftermarket IGNITION COILS replace damaged, cracked, or out-of-spec originals to help "light that XJ fire" under your...well, you know. Twenty-plus year old original coils can suffer from a variety of ailments that prevent them from doing their job, including burned or shorted internal windings, hairline cracks in the outer cases, or damaged and destroyed plug wire leads.

NOTE: although all of the following is repeated below under the spark plug Caps section, it would be good to review it here, also. ALWAYS TEST YOUR COILS (as described below) BEFORE ASSUMING THEY ARE THE PROBLEM. AND ALWAYS TEST YOUR COILS IF YOU ARE HAVING MIS-FIRING, FOULED PLUGS, OR OTHER (POSSIBLY) IGNITION-RELATED ENGINE PERFORMANCE PROBLEMS.

This will save you an incredible amount of time, effort, and $$$ and give you more quality riding time as opposed to a greater quantity of diagnostic time!


And a final note: using hi-performance, aftermarket coils (like Dyna or Accel brand) will generally NOT "improve the performance" of your bike in any measurable, meaningful way if your factory coils are performing okay. But if your factory system (coils, plug wires, and plug caps) are not up to snuff, then certainly ANY replacement (stock or aftermarket) coils are going to eliminate such problems and "improve performance". Be aware, though, that aftermarket coils can take quite a bit of mounting bracket fabrication efforts to make them fit properly into these cramped XJ frames, and you will have to purchase the plug wires, boots, and caps separately also.



Checking Factory Coils:

Factory Yamaha coils need to "see" a total load resistance on the secondary side (the "going-to-the-plugs" side of the coil) of around 20-30K ohms (ohms being a measure of electrical resistance). Electrical resistance depends on a number of factors: wire size, type of material, length of material, ambient temperature, etc. etc.

In any case, all factory XJ coils and wires combined---BUT WITHOUT THE CAPS OR PLUGS ATTACHED---have the following primary and secondary resistance ranges:


For all models except XJ700, XJ750-X, and XJ900 models:

Primary (input from TCI): 2.5 ohms +/- 10%
= 2.25 ohms - 2.75 ohms acceptable range

Secondary (output to spark plugs): 11K ohms +/- 20%
= 8,800 ohms - 13,200 ohms acceptable range


For all XJ700 and XJ750-X models:

Primary (input from TCI): 2.7 ohms +/- 10%
= 2.43 ohms - 2.97 ohms acceptable range

Secondary (output to spark plugs): 12K ohms +/- 20% (XJ700 and XJ750-X)
= 9,600 ohms - 14,400 ohms acceptable range


For all XJ900RK, RL, N, FN, and F models:

Primary (input from TCI): 2.7 ohms +/- 10%
= 2.43 ohms - 2.97 ohms acceptable range

Secondary (output to spark plugs): 13.2K ohms +/- 20% (XJ900)
= 10,560 ohms - 15,840 ohms acceptable range


All models:

Voltage at coil positive input terminal (the red wire with the white tracer stripe) with the engine running: 12+V This measurement should be take at the back of the connector shell (stick the volt meter probe in thru the back of the connector) and the battery negative terminal. Compare this reading with the measured battery voltage (voltmeter connected between the battery negative and the battery positive terminals). Any significant difference or lack of voltage indicates corroded or broken connections in-between the fusebox and the ignition coils, and reduced voltage at the coil input will result in reduced coil output (at the spark plugs). Although reduced voltage input (and thus less coil output voltage) may not significantly affect engine performance once the engine is warmed up, it can and will result in "hard start" situations when the engine is cold and/or when the choke system is engaged (since richer fuel mixtures require a much stronger spark to create ignition of the fuel mixture).



In order to help diagnosing engine performance problems that seem to be "plug-related", always measure the resistance of your coils, both primary and secondary sides, as well as the voltage at the coil input (primary) "hot lead" (the red/white stripe wire) before you start replacing parts. 20+ year old coils can and do fail regularly. If you need to replace your coils, and decide to buy used, original coils "sight unseen", always make sure that the seller checks them for you before you buy them!

MANY 25+ YEAR OLD COILS ARE NOW OUT OF ELECTRICAL SPEC---so "buyer-beware" is the name of the game. And also note: most analog ("swinging needle") ohm meters require that the needle be "zeroed" manually before you check ohms each and every time! Digital ohm meters are usually self-zeroing.

Factory coils can also suffer from tiny hairline cracks in their outer plastic housings, leading to electrical shorts which might only show up when the coils get hot, or when the ambient air has quite a bit of moisture (humidity) in it. Running your bike at night, with the tank off, in a VERY dark area will allow you to visually see if there are any tiny blue sparks occurring around the coils or lead wires, in which case the coils are in need of replacement.

The spark plug WIRES on factory coils are sorta non-replaceable, at least not without a bit of precision surgery:

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=11221.html

Suffice it to say that if your coils measure out of specs for resistance (as described above), they're junk and should be replaced, either with another factory coil or a pair of the various aftermarket coils that are on the market (Dyna and Accel coils work, but are a challenge to mount correctly in these tight XJ frames). We do offer an NGK plug wire in-line splicer (HCP2789 listed further below) that will allow you to cut off and remove a bad factory wire and replace it with a length of aftermarket plug wire. Aftermarket 7mm stranded copper core plug wire is a good choice to use when replacing factory coil wires, as copper wire (in the lengths that are used on bikes) basically offer an amount of electrical resistance equal to zero, just like the stranded stainless steel core plug wires used originally.

NOTE:

* on the primary side of the coils, the proper colored leads from the TCI must be hooked up to the proper coil......see below. However, it does not matter which of these two wires go to either position on the coils.

- the ignition coil for the #1/#4 spark plugs is mounted on the left side of the bike, and has the solid orange (ground) wire and the red-with-white-tracer-stripe (hot) wire input leading to it.

- the ignition coil for the #2/#3 spark plugs is mounted on the right side of the bike, and has the solid grey (ground) wire and the red-with-white-tracer-stripe (hot) wire input leading to it.

- thus, for the #1/#4 coil, you must use the wiring lead from the main harness (TCI) that has the has the solid orange (ground) wire and the red-with-white-tracer-stripe (hot) wires, as these wires carry the timing trigger pulse to fire the #1/#4 plugs. However, it does not matter whether the orange wire is installed to the top input terminal of the #1/#4 coil, or to its bottom input terminal. In other words, there is no "polarity" to a coil's primary circuit.

- also, on the secondary (output, spark plug lead wires) it also does not matter which plug wire goes to which cylinder (because they actually both fire at the same time). Thus, for the #1/#4 coil, you can hook either plug wire lead to the #1 or the #4 cylinder.


Warning about coils and spark plug "testing":

From one of the true technical experts, Dwayne Verhey:

"Avoid disconnecting just one spark plug and cranking the engine, as this procedure can create permanent damage to a coil, as this procedure create a very high resistance in the entire secondary circuit of a coil. Voltage will rise inside the coil without a path for escape. Eventually it rises high enough to exceed the break-down voltage of the insulation within the coil, and then current will flow via this newly created path. In the process, it creates a "channel" or weak point through which the insulation value is reduced. Every time this occurs, the insulation value at that point is further reduced, until it drops to the air gap value of the distance between the two internal conductors.

So long as this internal resistance is greater than the resistance of the spark plug gap, the coil will continue to function when the spark plug is reconnected. Bear in mind that the resistance of the spark plug gap increases when the gap is subjected to compression -- known as "spark quench" -- so the plug may still demonstrate a spark outside of the engine, but not inside, leaving one with the mistaken impression that the coil is fully functional. If the internal damage is severe enough of course, then we say the coil has failed and search for a replacement.

The truth is that the coil didn't fail, it was destroyed by cranking or running the bike with one plug disconnected.

Fouled plugs are a different matter. Why do fouled plugs fail to spark? Because the carbon build-up on the plug electrodes is a conductor and the thus short-circuits the spark plug gap. Same with flooded plugs. Gasoline is also a conductor. So in these situation, we have not increased the resistance, we have actually lowered it, and therefore there is no great voltage build-up inside the coil to cause damage."




SPARK PLUG WIRES:

spw2) Aftermarket SPARK PLUG WIRE, BOOTS, TERMINALS, and SHEATHING allow you to replace your old wire on your original coils, or create new wires for use with your replacement Dyna coils.

Available in a variety of colors, all of our wire is silicone-jacketed, stranded core, non-resistance wire just like the original plug wire....but it's available in a variety of colors and in both the original 7mm size and the more modern 8mm diameter. Note that the larger 8mm wire will fit (tightly!) into the stock plug caps.

Plug wire is sold in 18" lengths, which is more than enough to any of the four plug wires on all XJ models (whether you are splicing the wires onto an existing wire "stub", or going deep inside the coil). You will need to order 4 lengths to do a complete bike. If you wish to use these wires with aftermarket coils, then you can also choose from our selection of plug wire Terminals and Boots to complete the job.


Introduction:

If you've never really fiddled around with spark plug wires before, the terminology and the design of the replacement components can get a bit confusing, especially on these bikes, because what is termed a "coil" in Yamaha-speak is really a Coil Pack, and actually contains a variety of individual pieces all wrapped up together into one happy little black package. When creating your own system from the basic component pieces (as listed below), it really helps if you can visualize the separate, individual components of the system.......so here goes:


Your stock factory "coils" are really:

- a COIL,
- with integrated PLUG WIRES,
- and where the plug wires enter the coil body, there is a small, tightly-fitting insulating rubber BOOT,
- and attached to the business end of each plug wire (and what actually fits onto the top of the spark plug) is the resistive PLUG CAP,
- and unfortunately, many people call these resistive plug caps "BOOTS",
- which is not really correct, since that object is both an electrically resistive CAP with removable upper and lower, water- and electrical-proofing, protective molded rubber BOOTS,


On all engines besides the X models, the plug caps do come with small, black rubber insulating "boots", but for all practical purposes, the "cap" and the "boot" appear to be one and the same part (and the cap is the physically and visually larger part). On the water-cooled 700-X and 750-X models, there is no mistaking that there is a black CAP and a huge orange BOOT at the base of the cap.


Confusion is likely to set in when trying to understand the component parts list below if you are used to visualizing and referring to the original spark plug CAP and it's little water-proofing BOOTS by the single term BOOT, because when you get into the "components" world, the word BOOT means just that, just the "boot", and they are now the large objects that cover and insulate the plug (and the coil output terminals), but there is no CAP involved any more!

If you study an original "coil" carefully, you will obviously note the actual coil, and exiting from the coil body thru a tightly fitting black rubber boot (the coil boot) is the spark plug wire, which runs down into the plug cap (thru a small, black rubber insulating boot at the top of the cap), and then at the bottom of the same cap, is another rubber insulating boot.


Finally, there is one other thing in the component world that you don't have in the "integrated" world, and that is the wire end METAL TERMINALS....which are made from either brass or plated steel. On your original factory coils, there are metal terminals that are fixed into the coil body (internally) and into the top end of the resistive cap. These terminals are either pointed "spears" or "sheetmetal screw" type terminals, and the plug wires are pushed into the spear point (inside the coil body) or screwed onto the screw terminal (inside the resistive cap). In the component world of aftermarket wires, the wire-end terminals are attached to the wires......think of the wire at the end of your toaster at home; at the end of the wire there is a "plug" with two or three metal terminals sticking out of it. The terminals are made onto the end of the wires!. Not so on your original coils!! The wire has no end terminals on it; the wire is pressed onto and into fixed metal terminals inside the coil and the cap.

If you cut off the plug from the end of your toaster, stripped the wires bare, and forced each wire into the wall sockets by hand.......well, now you have a better understanding of how Yamaha did it!


The big questions that you'll have to answer when purchasing aftermarket plug wire components are the following:

a) Will I be using the original or replacement spark plug CAPS at the spark plug end of the wires? If you do use the original or replacement CAPS, then you do NOT need to purchase the spark plug boot or the spark plug boot terminal.

b) If you will not be using your original or replacement spark plug CAPS, then you will need to purchase replacement spark plug BOOTS and the metal TERMINALS for those boots.

c) At the coil end of the spark plug wire: if your are still using factory coils, are you going to run the plug wire all the way into the body of the coil (in which case you'll be performing "coil surgery")? If so, then there are no other component parts that you'll need.

If you don't want to perform surgery, then you will be cutting off the original plug wire after it exits the stock coil body, and then you will have to splice the new plug wire onto this existing "stub" of original wire. In this situation, you will need a way to join the "stub" wire to your new wires, and you'll need the HCP2789 plug wire joiners or "splicers".


If you are using aftermarket coils (like the HCP245 Dyna coils), then at the coil end of the wire you will need a coil-end metal PLUG WIRE TERMINAL and a black rubber water-proofing BOOT.


Finally, original plug wires had an external black RUBBER SLEEVE that ran almost the entire length of the plug wire, from where the plug wire enters the coil body, to approximately 2-3" before where the plug wire enters the spark plug cap. This tough, flexible, heat-resistant sheath provided additional protection and security for the plug wire against temperature and wire insulator damage.



Typical Scenarios:

When replacing the wires on an original coil, you have two choices of how to proceed:

a: cut the original plug wire off just before it enters the coil body (leaving a 1" long "stub" to splice onto!), and splice the new wire onto this stud using the HCP2789 plug wire splicers listed further below, or.........

b: perform coil surgery, which allows you to replace the entire length of the plug wire (the preferred solution), but it's a somewhat tedious process:

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=11221.html


Of course, you should only replace the wires on original ignition coils if the coils are still within electrical resistance specs; otherwise, you're wasting time and money! Please read the section further above on COILS to determine whether your coils are electrically sound, before you even consider replacing the wires.

Also please note: when replacing the original 5K or 10K resistance (the value varies, depending on the model) plug CAPS with zero-resistance direct-wires----such as the plug wires listed below----you may be putting your TCI box in jeopardy if you are also using non-resistor spark plugs. The sensitive electronics within the TCI box are "protected" in certain situations by the presence of a certain amount of electrical resistance in the circuit they are feeding----too little, or too much resistance, and the electrical components throw a tantrum and degrade in performance or just quit.


For the above reasons, we recommend either the use of the factory-style NGK plug caps, or, if you eliminate the plug caps from your system, then always use resistor plugs!

It really all comes down to WHERE in the entire wire, cap/boot, or spark plugs will the circuit resistance be created?

Most modern spark plug WIRE is resistance wire; each foot of wire has about 5,000 ohms of resistance in it because of the type of wire used. All of our wire is non-resistive wire (zero ohms of resistance----as is the original plug wires used on these bikes).

So the circuit resistance can be either in a spark plug CAP---this is how the original system is configured, and also what the replacement NGK plug caps offer.........or, the resistance can be in the SPARK PLUG itself (non-resistive or resistive plugs).

Of course, the total circuit resistance can actually be split up between any or all three of those components: the wire, the plug "cap" or "boot" (if it's resistive, it's typically called a "cap"; if it's non-resistive, it's usually called a "boot", but basically they are the same thing), or the spark plug.

For most many engines, the circuit specification is for 5K total resistance, and it is accomplished via:

- non-resistive wire
- a 5K resistive CAP (boot)
- non-resistive SPARK PLUG

but you could do this:

- non-resistive wire
- a non-resistive CAP (boot)
- a 5K resistive SPARK PLUG

or this (although we don't offer resistive wire):

- a 5K resistive wire
- a non-resistive CAP (boot)
- non-resistive SPARK PLUG

you could actually do it this way, too, if such components were available:

- a 2K resistive wire
- a 2K resistive CAP (boot)
- a 1K resistive SPARK PLUG


Some of the XJ700-X and XJ750-X models, for instance, use:

- non-resistive wire
- a 10K resistive CAP (boot)
- a 5K resistive SPARK PLUG

for a total circuit resistance of 15K.


Spark plugs are generally limited to being either non-resistive (zero ohms) or 5K (= 5,000 ohms) of resistance, and plug CAPS (boots) are either 0K, 5K, or 10K.

One last insight: since the spark plugs are the most commonly replaced item in the entire wire > cap/boot > spark plug run of components, some people prefer to use zero-ohm wire, zero-ohm caps, and 5K plugs---since the plugs have to be replaced periodically anyway, and that way, the resistive level of the system gets automatically "refreshed" periodically also, with every plug change........


By the way, all of our replacement spark plug resistive caps use the original style internal metal "threaded screw" method of retaining the plug wire to the spark plug cap......you simply "screw" or "spear" the central core of the plug wire onto the screw threads, making a simple yet effective and durable connection (we recommend a small amount of lubricant----our HCP1714 silicone grease is perfect for this task-----or similar lubricant on the outer wire jacket end to simplify this procedure!).



When creating or replacing the wires for use with an aftermarket coil, you again have two choices of how to proceed:

a: buy a set of pre-made plug wires, such as our HCP4014 or HCP4015 sets, listed further below, or.........

b: roll your own, baby!: buy the wire, and 4 of the coil boots and their metal terminals, and use either your existing plug caps (or OE-style replacement plug caps), or aftermarket plug boots and their terminals (we recommend that you stick with the original OE-style plug caps, for reasons outlined above).

This illustrated guide can help you understand better what you'll need to do.......the plug wire creation instructions starts on page 15:

http://www.xj4ever.com/dyna%20coils%20install.pdf

All of the plug wire components below fit all XJ550 - XJ1100 coils and spark plug caps.



STARTING SYSTEM PARTS:

BATTERIES:

Brand new OEM and replacement batteries will certainly solve those slow or no-start problems, but before you buy a battery............read on to determine whether you really need a battery, or whether your situation is due to some other cause.

Of course, if you determine that your battery is ready to take that trip to the great lead-acid Heaven in the sky......or, actually, to a recycling center, such as a local auto parts store........then we have a variety of choices for your specific bike.



How do I know if my battery is good?:

Is it your battery, or your charging system, or something in-between?

The best way to know for sure is to use a multimeter (voltmeter) attached directly to your battery positive and negative terminals, and observe the following:

1) with the engine and all electrical accessories off, the battery should read a minimum of 12.8 volts DC. If not, the battery is either not fully charged, or it is bad (it is incapable of holding a full charge). Charge the battery fully and check again; if the reading is less than 12.8 volts, the battery is bad and should be replaced.

NOTE: most manuals describe checking the specific gravity of each battery cell electrolyte (fluid) as the preferred method of checking the condition of the battery. This reading should be between 1.2650 - 1.280 per cell. If a fully charged battery cannot reach these levels in all cells, then that cell is bad and the battery should be replaced.


2) If the first test above passes, leave the multimeter hooked up to the battery terminals, and press the starter button. While the starter is engaged (but before the bike starts), the battery voltage should be 9.5 volts or greater. If not, then this signals either a bad battery, very dirty or weak electrical connections, or it could be a incredibly problematic starter motor (not likely; it's probably the battery!).


3) if you run into this specific problem:

* "There were a few times when I cranked it, that it ALMOST started. It would start to fire immediately as I let off the start button. But it just wouldn't catch.

Then this is a symptom of a weak battery, due to any number of causes.......

What happens is that as the starter is being engaged, it gobbles up battery voltage. As soon as the start button is released, you now have full battery voltage available TO THE IGNITION CIRCUIT (including the pick-ups, the TCI, and especially the coils), and in that instant when you release the starter button, the coils get enough voltage to produce an adequate spark while the motor is still (by inertia) turning over. If everything is in a great state of tune, the bike will normally kick over. If not, you get the "almost fires" situation explained above, so.........

Test the battery voltage WHILE THE STARTER IS ENGAGED (a voltmeter across the + and - terminals of the battery is all that's needed). It should remain above 9.5 volts while the starter motor is engaged but without the engine running. If it drops below that level while the starter is active, then that's the "problem", and the cause of that problem must be determined and remedied (usually a sign of a bad battery, or it could be a incredibly problematic starter motor).


4) Your charging system output VOLTAGE should be checked, again at the battery terminals, while the engine is running. The measured voltage should be:

* 14.2 - 14.8 Volts at about 2,000 rpms for all non-X models, and the same voltage for "X" models, but at about 3,000 rpms. Again, you would measure these voltages at the battery terminals with your voltmeter.

NOTE: If your alternator is outputting more than 14.8 volts to the battery, your regulator-rectifier unit is bad and should be replaced. Over-charging a battery will quickly ruin it, and may cause severe damage or failure of other electrical components, such as the TCI or the computer monitor system (on bikes so equipped).


Here's your cheat sheet on all of the above:


Static Battery Voltage Test

Prior to conducting this test, make sure the battery has not been
recently charged. You must wait at least one hour after charging
your battery to conduct this test.

a) Adjust voltmeter to DC volts (20 volt range).

b) Place voltmeter leads to the battery terminals (positive to positive and negative to negative).

c) Read voltage and refer to the chart below.

State of Charge:

100% Charged with Sulfate Stop:
Using a syringe Hydrometer: 1.280
Using a Digital Voltmeter: 12.80 volts
Using a Floating-Ball Hydrometer: 5 balls floating


100% Charged:
Using a syringe Hydrometer: 1.265
Using a Digital Voltmeter: 12.60 volts
Using a Floating-Ball Hydrometer: 4 balls floating


75% Charged:
Using a syringe Hydrometer: 1.210
Using a Digital Voltmeter: 12.40 volts
Using a Floating-Ball Hydrometer: 3 balls floating


50% Charged:
Using a syringe Hydrometer: 1.160
Using a Digital Voltmeter: 12.10 volts
Using a Floating-Ball Hydrometer: 2 balls floating


25% Charged:
Using a syringe Hydrometer: 1.120
Using a Digital Voltmeter: 11.90 volts
Using a Floating-Ball Hydrometer: 1 ball floating


0% Charged:
Using a syringe Hydrometer: less than 1.100
Using a Digital Voltmeter: less than 11.80 volts
Using a Floating-Ball Hydrometer: 0 balls floating




Starting Load Test:

a) Adjust voltmeter to DC volts (20 volt range).

b) Place voltmeter leads to the battery terminals (positive to positive and negative to negative) .

c) Watch the voltmeter as you start your motorcycle, but before the engine is running.

d) If the voltage drops below 9.5 volts, the battery has very low capacity and should be replaced.




Charging System Tests:

a) Adjust voltmeter to DC volts (20 volt range).

b) Place voltmeter leads to the battery terminals (positive to positive and negative to negative).

c) Start the engine.

d) Bring engine up to approximately 2,500 rpm's.

e) Compare the voltage reading to the specification given below:

For all XJ-series models, the maximum available charging output VOLTAGE should be as follows (all values are approximate):

* approximately 500-2000 rpms: 1.8 volts gradually increasing to 14.2 volts
* 2000+ rpms: 14.2 volts up to about 14.8 volts, with a maximum of 14.8 volts (all models except XJ700-X and XJ750-X)
* 3000+ rpms: 14.2 volts up to about 14.8 volts, with a maximum of 14.8 volts (all XJ700-X and XJ750-X)


NOTE: the voltage reading must be approximately 14.0 - 14.5 volts to properly charge an AGM battery......anything less, and you will quickly kill these type batteries!

If your charging voltages are too low, suspect the alternator brushes first, then perform the alternator stator and rotor checks as described in the Alternator Section elsewhere in the catalog.

If your charging voltages are too high, suspect your Regulator - Rectifier unit first, and perhaps dirty or corroded electrical terminals. The procedure for checking these is too detailed to describe here, and you should consult your service manual for additional details.


5) Check the condition of your main circuit terminals.....they should be zestfully clean and uncorroded, or you're primed for a variety of problems......not only will your circuits not be getting full power out of your battery, but to add insult to injury, your charging system may think that the battery needs more juice, and so it starts cranking out amps like there's no tomorrow. It's pretty safe to say that neither of those two occurrences qualify as a Good Thing (tm), so...........start at the beginning, and inspect and clean (and then protect, like with di-electric grease or equivalent) all the [/b] terminal connection points[/b]:

* the positive battery post connection to the positive battery cable.
* the positive battery cable connection to the starter relay (or "solenoid").
* the main harness terminal connector from the starter relay.
* the main lead from the starter relay to the starter motor (both ends).
* the "main fuse" contacts inside the fusebox.
* the battery ground cable contacts at both the engine case and at the negative battery post (poor ground are just as bad as poor positive feeds; after all, it takes two to tango, or to complete a circuit, and electricity doesn't care where the restriction occurs).



Battery and Charging System Results:

Okay, now with all of the above out of the way, you should be able to determine whether you need a new battery, or not. There's no need to waste money on a replacement battery if it's not the root cause of your problems. If your battery is good, but your charging system or electrical system isn't, then spend your time and money on fixing the root causes of the problem........such efforts will also help prevent you from murdering your otherwise good battery.

But assuming that your battery is ready to be retired, the question then becomes, which battery?----as they come in a variety of types and price ranges (and, as with most things in life, the more you spend, typically, the better quality you'll get when it comes to a "commodity" product such as a battery).


Basically, motorcycle batteries are of two basic types, the flooded cell type (sometimes called a "wet cell" or "conventional" battery) and the AGM or "absorbed glass mat" type.

Your original-style, Yuasa-brand battery was a "conventional" type, and these are now available in both their original configuration, or in a high-performance version that can output more amperage than the standard style-----and this is typically a cost-effective upgrade.


AGM batteries feature cell separators made of fiberglass mats that minimize the movement of electrolyte (acid), and prevent spillage if tipped over on their side. The acid formulation in these also typically a bit stronger compared to flooded cell batteries, which accounts for their typically higher output. AGM batteries are of the permanently sealed, "maintenance-free" design, thus never requiring the further addition of water or acid.


Continued below:

 

Continued:


The charging system of many modern motorcycles that come factory-equipped with an AGM type battery uses a regulator/rectifier that outputs a slightly higher voltage than a flooded cell battery requires. Using an AGM in almost any motorcycle will usually work well, while using a flooded cell battery in a bike designed for an AGM type will often result in overcharging and quick boiling of the electrolyte solution -- it isn't long before the battery is dry and possibly ruined. Of course, all of our XJ-series bikes came originally with a conventional wet ("flooded") type battery, so replacing them with the AGM types is not a problem or issue.

AGM type batteries are also more tolerant of sitting for long periods with minimum formation of lead sulfate (sulfation) on the plates. They can usually be charged at a slightly higher rate and in general provide better performance over the long haul. However, once AGM batteries are "dead"; they're dead, and cannot usually be brought back to life (even for a short amount of time) like a conventional battery can.

Finally, be aware that while AGM batteries are sometimes incorrectly called "gel cells batteries", a true "gel cell" type of battery is quite a different animal, and is actually not recommended for motorcycle use.



Battery FAQ's:


What is a conventional (or "wet" or "flooded") battery?:

These are the standard automotive type design battery, with individual push-in or screw-in battery cell access caps, a vented design, also referred to as a "lead-acid" design, and need the periodic addition of distilled water to "top up" the fluid level.



What is a "maintenance-free" battery?:

Maintenance-free batteries do not require the addition of water after their initial fill of their water/acid electrolytic solution. It means that it is a "sealed" battery, with no filler caps. Note that while conventional "wet" batteries may be available in a sealed, maintenance-free variety, AGM batteries are always of this sealed, maintenance-fee type.



What is a "high-performance" battery?:

Due to plate design and other factors, high-performance batteries have a denser charge ability and will output more amps for a longer period of time (this is the so-called Cold Cranking Amps or CCA rating number that is used to describe a battery) before full discharge. Although there have been some interesting technological "enhancements" to the basic conventional battery design over the years, almost all "high-performance" (meaning, higher-capacity) batteries rely on more lead material in their plates, resulting in a physically heavier battery. More lead = more money to manufacture and transport the battery, which is why these batteries cost more.



What is an AGM battery?:

AGM is an abbreviation for "absorbed glass mat". In this battery design, almost all of the battery sulphuric acid solution --- which, by the way, is typically at a higher concentration level than of what is used in conventional "wet-cell" batteries --- is absorbed into glass mat separators which are sandwiched between the lead plates. It's a totally sealed and maintenance free design. There are no discharge tubes or fillers caps, which eliminates the need to maintain water levels and offers no concern about acid leaks on valuable parts and accessories.

AGM batteries offer the following advantages over conventional batteries because:

a) their sealed, maintenance-free design means you never have to worry about checking nor maintaining their fluid levels.

b) AGM batteries, unless physically damaged, will not leak or corrode your paint and chrome.

c) they have less internal resistance which offers more cranking amperage than wet batteries.

d) their lower self-discharge rate means they can sit for extended periods of time without constant monitoring. A conventional wet battery discharges 15% a month, whereas AGM batteries discharge only 2-3% a month.

e) a longer service life be expected from an AGM battery-----the main reason conventional wet batteries fail is due to water levels that are not properly monitored and maintained. Conventional batteries are also not very heat nor vibration resistant. AGM batteries are much more heat and vibration resistant than conventional batteries, and of course are maintenance-free, all of which contribute to their longer service life.

f) however, AGM batteries are more sensitive to both undercharge and overcharge conditions than conventional wet-cell, lead-acid batteries. They must be maintained correctly, and use a quality "smart" charger that does not stray too much, or too long, into the "overcharge" range of chagring.



What is a gel-cell battery?:

A type of battery that you do not want to use in your XJ-series bike!



What are the electrical specifications for an original battery?:

all XJ550 and XJ650 models:

Capacity: 12ah
Charging rate: 10 hours @ 1.2A
CCA's: 113


all XJ700, XJ750, and XJ900RK models:

Capacity: 14ah
Charging rate: 10 hours @ 1.4A
CCA's: approximately 130


XJ1100 models:
Capacity: 20ah
Charging rate: 10 hours @ 2.0A
CCA's: 260


How should a battery be maintained?:

Good battery maintenance allows you to get the maximum power and life from your battery:

a) always keep the acid level between lower and upper lines on front side of the container (for conventional type batteries that are not sealed).

b) do not let the battery remain in a discharged condition for any length of time. Discover and remedy the cause of such a condition immediately.

c) when a bike is stored for over 30 days at a time, use an automatic battery charger to maintain a proper storage charge.

d) keep the top of the battery case clean, dry, and free of dirt or moisture.

e) clean the battery terminals to prevent corrosion, and treat them to some anti-corrosion spray or coat their exposed areas with di-electric grease. Do not over-tighten the terminal cinch bolts!

f) inspect the battery vent tube regularly, ensuring that it is not bent, twisted or clogged, especially at the bottom of the tube, where it discharges towards the ground......this is the most common place where the tube will get clogged via road debris, etc.

g) protect the battery from strong impacts or shocks.


How long will my new battery live?:

Regardless of battery type or manufacture, you can expect a properly activated, and properly maintained battery (meaning it's neither overcharged nor overly or repeatedly allowed to become fully discharged) to give you 2-4 solid years of life.

Heat is the big enemy of motorcycle batteries----they'll last much longer in a cool climate than a hot one. The self-discharge rate of a battery can run as high as 3% a day in hot weather with a flooded cell battery to about 1% or less per day with an AGM type. Overcharging a battery also overheats a battery---a double whammy! Make sure your charging system is in good order to get the maximum life from your battery.

Constant, repeated complete discharges of a battery will also reduce their lifespan. There's only so many times you can "drain the well" before a battery electrically gives up the ghost.


What are some of the best ways to kill a battery?:

a) Let a discharged battery freeze. Fully discharged batteries freeze at about +25-F, or just below the freezing temperature of water. Fully charged batteries freeze at about 75-F below zero. 'Nuff said........

b) Let a battery overheat.

c) Overcharge the battery........either via the use of an incorrect (or poor quality or defective battery charger), a charging system regulator gone bad, or highly corroded (high resistance) wiring harness connections within the system.

d) "Quick-charge" the battery using an incorrect style battery charger.

e) Allow the fluid level (for wet or conventional batteries) to get too low. This exposes the plates to air, which cause the plates to "sulfate", which leads to increased electrical resistance and a drop in power output.

f) Run a battery down into deep-discharge. Each full discharge event causes sulfate build-up on the lead plates. Do this enough times.....like when your charging system isn't outputting properly........and you'll kill a battery pretty quickly.

g) On conventional batteries, do not use regular tap water to fill or re-fill the battery. Tap water contains minerals and metals that will shorten the life of a battery. Always use distilled or de-mineralized water to fill a battery.


What about my original battery fluid level sensor?:

Some original models with the "computer" dashboard monitor system (1982 XJ750 Maxim, 1981-83 XJ750 Seca, and XJ1100 models) had a low-battery-fluid warning light on the dash, triggered by a fluid-level sensor which replaced one of the battery cell screw-in caps. If the fluid level in that battery cell was too low to trigger the sensor, the circuit in the computer dash warning system would read that as a low-voltage condition and would then illuminate the warning light.

So of course, the first issue in regards to these sensors is: if the light is on, first check your fluid level!

But other issues arise: it could be that the tip of the sensor has become dirty, or encrusted with deposits, in which case even if the fluid level is fine, it will still sense a low-voltage condition. This can be remedied with a gentle cleaning of the sensor tip (steel wool, brass bristle brush, etc.).

Also, the sensor reads voltage, and without enough voltage to trigger the computer system, the light illuminates. The wire path from the sensor goes through your ignition switch and if this switch has electrically "dirty" internal contacts, then that can add enough resistance to cut the voltage signal enough to trigger the dash "low Batt" warning light or display, even though the sensor is fine and the fluid level is okay! So: remove the ignition switch, and its bottom plate, and clean the copper contacts inside the ignition switch.

Finally: a few issues arise with replacement batteries in regards to the use of sensors:

a) some batteries are designed to allow you to re-use your original sensor (we also offer a replacement sensor in case your original is missing or damaged). These conventional-style batteries will feature screw-in caps and your original sensor will screw right in place (by the way, the sensor must be installed in the 4th cell over from the negative post or it will not work correctly and may damage your dash computer!).

b) but some aftermarket batteries, even though they have screw-in caps, have a different "plate depth" internally, and even though the original sensor will screw into the cell port, the sensor tip will be too deep and contact the lead plates in the battery which will cause battery, sensor, and dash computer damage! Thus you must be careful with aftermarket batteries, and measure the depth of the cell, and if it's shorter than that of an original battery, you must use plastic spacer shims (washers) to space an original sensor "upwards" to the proper depth for such batteries, or carefully trim the sensor tip shorter so that it does not ever contact the internal plates.

c) other aftermarket batteries will have push-in rather than screw-in caps. An original sensor will not fit into these batteries unless that one cell port is "threaded" to accept the sensor. This can be best accomplished by gently screwing into the cell port a proper sized and thread steel bolt, and thus "cutting threads" of the proper size into that cell port opening. Now your original screw-in sensor can be properly installed; however, the same warnings as in issue "b" above (in regards to the depth of the cell) must be observed and remedied, if necessary. Of course, make sure that as you cut these new threads into the battery case, that any plastic "shavings" that are created by this threading process do not get into (or are removed) the battery cell.

d) some of the replacement Yuasa batteries that we offer come with a replacement sensor.......in which case, you discard (or save) your original sensor and just hook up your sensor wire lead to this new sensor.

e) some aftermarket batteries.....such as the replacement "maintenance-free" (sealed) and all AGM batteries......have no "cell caps" and thus are not going to accept a sensor, at all. This present a problem, since the lack of voltage to the dash computer makes it think that there is a battery problem, and the red warning light or display message is always on or blinking at you. Although you can "reset" this annoyance away, there are two other solutions available to you in order to disable or bypass this function:

i) on models that use a warning light, you can simply remove the bulb from your dash! No more "warning" of a low battery fluid condition (except on the LCD display screen), but no more annoying blinking light, either.

ii) on all models, you can install our HCP9982 sensor bypass wire that duplicates the function of the original sensor.



What are the best battery myths?:

a) that putting a battery on a cement floor will cause it to discharge. This may have been true a long time ago, when the battery case was made of a rubber material, which would develop hairline cracks and thus allow moisture to permeate into the case, opening up an electrical circuit which would quickly discharge a battery. Modern batteries use molded plastic cases that do not suffer from such a fate.

b) that bringing a battery inside during the winter will prolong its life. Batteries produce electricity via a chemical reaction, and the chemical reaction results in the production of sulfate deposits on the lead plates within the battery, and these sulfate deposits act as electrical insulators----thus reducing the power output and the overall life of the battery. These chemical reactions slow down dramatically with lower temperatures. As long as your battery does not freeze, the lower the temperature, the less the amount of chemical reactions taking place, thus prolonging the life of the battery!

Remember, heat is one of the things that wears out batteries, because they speed up the amount and intensity of these chemical reactions that creates the sulfate deposition on the lead plates.....and those deposits are what really "kills" the battery.

By the way, the main reason why your car or bike cranks over so slowly during winter is not due to "thicker oil" (multi-viscosity oils took care of that issue a long time ago), but because of the decreased chemical reactions (meaning less electrical output generation) within the battery due to those lower temperatures.


Can I jump-start my dead motorcycle battery from a car battery?:

Yes, BUT.................

a) you need to make sure that you are using the proper gauge jumper cables.

b) hook the jumper cables up incorrectly (+ to -) and if you're lucky, you'll just burn up your TCI unit. If you're unlucky, you'll blow up your battery, your bike, or yourself.

c) make sure that your key switch and all electrical power drains are OFF before you hook up the jumper cables.

d) the best sequence of battery connection is to hook up both jumper cables onto the dead battery first, and then connect the positive lead to the good battery, and finally the negative lead to the good battery (or a good ground on the donor battery frame, etc.).



Your quest for more battery knowledge may still remains unsatisfied; if so, a great battery tutorial can be found at:

http://www.batteryfaq.org

and

http://www.dansmc.com/batteries.htm




STARTER RELAY - SOLENOID AND RELATED:

ep6) OEM and Aftermarket STARTER RELAY and SOLENOID. This round canister style solenoid has two terminal studs, the wire harness pigtail and connector, and is mounted into a rubber insulator.

Your positive battery cable connects to one terminal on the solenoid, and the other terminal feeds the cable to the starter motor. The wire harness pigtail goes to your "start" push-button.

HINTS: be aware that the blue/white wire coming off of the starter solenoid is what leads to the push-switch on your handlebar control unit, and provides the GROUND circuit for the solenoid........in other words, when you push the "start" button on the handlebar switch, all that does is complete the solenoid circuit (it provides the ground path). Thus, if the switch internals (on the start button switch) or the handlebar control switch ground is not secure, clean, etc. that may be the real problem with the solenoid.

You can verify whether this is the problem by jumpering the blue/white wire off of the solenoid directly to battery terminal negative........if the solenoid works properly, then the problem is not (fully) with the solenoid, but with something else in the ground path for the solenoid.

If your starter motor doesn't work, and all you hear is a "click" when you press the starter button, either your battery is dead or this relay - solenoid unit is the culprit. If your starter button doesn't operate the starter ("click"), but you can short across the two big terminal studs on the front of this solenoid and engage the starter motor, then the relay within the solenoid is probably bad and this solenoid needs to be replaced.




STARTER MOTORS:

gp2) OEM new and aftermarket re-wound STARTER MOTORS perfectly replace the originals. Rewound starters are sold on a "core charge" basis and you must return to us a usable, same-model starter motor core in order to receive your core charge refund.


Checking Starter Motors:

As far as checking your starter motor, the only tests that you can do are on the commutator (the segmented "snout" of the entire armature) and the brushes, and are as follows:

a) if the surface is commutator is dirty, clean it with 800-grit or finer sandpaper or crocus cloth. Make sure that any dust generated by this process is completely removed.

b) the mica insulation on the armature.....in between each of the raised "segments"......should be:

* 0.8mm (.03") below the level of adjoining segments on XJ550 starter motors.

* 0.6mm (.025") below the level of adjoining segments on all XJ650, XJ700, XJ750, and XJ900 starter motors.


If the depth of this mica insulation below the level of the segments is less than the specifications given above, you should scrape away the insulation until that depth is reached (a hacksaw blade or similar tool can be shaped to fit), or take the armature to an electrical service shop to have them undercut the mica to the appropriate depth.

c) check the raised segments for continuity between each individual segment and each and every other segments. There should be continuity.

d) check for continuity between every segment (assuming the test in "c" above has already been performed) and the shaft of the armature. There should not be continuity.

e) check the resistance of the internal coil windings of the armature. You do this via measuring the resistance across every two adjoining segments. It should be:


* 0.012 ohms +/- 6% at 70-degrees F. for all XJ550 starter motors.

* 0.014 ohms +/- 6% at 70-degrees F. for all XJ650, XJ700, XJ750, and XJ900 starter motors.


f) measure the outside diameter of the segments. The minimum acceptable diameter is 27.00mm.

g) measure the length of the brushes. The minimum acceptable length is:

* 5.00mm for all XJ550 starter motors.

* 8.50mm for all XJ650, XJ700, XJ750, and XJ900 starter motors.


h) check for continuity between each brush and the brushplate. There should be continuity.

i) check for continuity between each brush and its terminal bolt. There should be continuity.

j) check the condition of the shaft end bushings or bearings in the case. If they are worn, then they needs to be replaced.

k) check the condition of the ring and planetary gears. If they are worn or chipped, then they need to be replaced.

l) the only other procedure that is mentioned in the factory manual is to check the condition of the brush springs, and you are supposed to do that by comparing them to new ones.....which is kind of hard to do! The springs should be considered serviceable if they snap the brushes firmly back into position when released from tension. The exact specification is:

* 550 +/- 50 grams (18.5 +/- 1.5 ounces) of pressure, measured via the use of a spring gauge, for all XJ550 starter motors.

* 800 +/- 150 grams (28.22 +/- 5.29 ounces) of pressure, measured via the use of a spring gauge, for all XJ650, XJ700, XJ750, and XJ900 starter motors.


Also, be very careful when re-assembling a starter motor. There is an alignment notch in the brush plate that must be aligned with the case properly, as well as alignment notches on the outside of the main case to the end caps. Failure to install the brushes and brush plate in their proper orientation can cause the starter motor to not work at all, or to even spin backwards! The correct rotation of the starter motor is counter-clockwise, looking at the butt-end of the motor (as it is installed on the engine); or, clockwise if your are looking the starter drive gear dead in its eye........


Finally, always be sure to use a premium, high-temperature grease to lubricate the internal gears and bearings, and do not attempt to clean the armature via the use of strong solvent sprays (brake cleaner, carb cleaner, etc.) as the solvents may break down the insulation on the coil windings, causing an internal short.



The Ultimate Relay, Switch, Sensor, and Diodes Guide:

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=27543.html

 

Psst hey len....click on the link i posted above you:

 

That is an exceptional post. Very well done. Would have saved me a bit of time f_ing around with my final harness install for sure.

 

woah, well thats one way to overwhelm someone who barely has any tools and is looking at this xj for the 1st time. I'm sure people here know what you are typing up a college essay on... but I have no clue... i do NOT learn by reading when it comes to parts.... i learn by doing. and by sight. thanks though for all the extra details, im sure this is all useful info to the right person... but all that just flew over my head like a plane. im a newbie builder. lol but im sure people will keep talking to me like i alreayd know what you do??? i dont get that.. theres a huge communication barrier here.

 

in addition, no one has responded to my wanted ad for the starter motor. IS there actually one for sale here?

 

Umm... Dude. In that post (and a few before it) are the answers to everything you'll need to know to fix your problem.

If having the necessary information to properly diagnose and correct the issue "overwhelms" you then I don't know what to tell you.

I suggest you print out the section chacal posted for you, and use it to refer back to as you proceed. Kind of like the SERVICE MANUAL you're going to get.

Nobody's talking to you like we think you already know everything. We're trying to provide the necessary information to actually do you some good.

In this case, I'd suggest you try doing some "learning by reading" as you're "doing."

And find a service manual; you seriously will need it.

 

Hey Motorcycledude, we do have rebuilt starter motors available for your engine, drop me am e-mail or a PM for the details!

 

LMAO bigfitz52! thanks man you're alot of help. *fart noises* lol.
I really don't need someone trying to tell me off... but you just made my day!
baha. thanks for sharing! I dont need advice. i need parts. ^^THAT guy.



Thanks Chacal! I'll hit you up on that. thanks for sharing!

 

Dude, due to your lack of respect, I think I will respectfully decline to supply products to you, thanks.

 

Dude, you're not the only person on planet earth who supplies parts. i could care less. more power to ya!

lack of respect? you dont say... i thought that was the common bond here between you dudes
ohwell.... bu by LMAO!!!

 

Wow, it's not just me having a "bite peoples head off" day today then.... by any means. Bye dude have fun