E3 plugs?

Has anyone used them in their XJ that can tell me more about them?

 

Yes. Put them in about 6 months ago. They don't require gapping because the diamond pattern generates a 'naked' or variable spark around the electrode.

I'm always skeptical of 'new tech,' and especially so when it is something simple like a plug...but I saw a lab test of their plugs that some hot-rodders conducted because they were trying to squeeze more power out of their small block. They had video showing a typical plug's 'flame-front' and the E3's. There was no comparison. The E3's was much more complete and came from multiple directions at once while the traditional plug generated a conical shape from one point. They used high speed cameras shooting 1000fps and slowed it way down so you could actually see the 'shape' of the flame - pretty cool video. I'll try and find it.

Before putting them in I could turn my idle knob down on the 550 until I got around 850rpms and the bike would begin to sputter, gallop and usually die. With the E3's in I can go to 650rpm and it won't die. Now when I go to start I don't ever need to crank it more than 3 revolutions and upon release it just fires right up. Never did that before and everything else is the same. Battery, carbs, etc.

Not having to bother with gapping is a plus. Mpg went up 2-3mpg, but was already averaging 48mpg(mostly city) now 51mpg-or 54mpg hwy.

I'm a believer. At least for the 550 they worked better than NGK's.

 

Mercury, What is the part number for them on the xj. We just got a shipment of them in at work.

 

Hmmm

 

Would you check your plug color in the same fashion as conventional plugs? Cool, i notice that they're available in Canada as well, hmmm indeed...

M

 

the plug number should be the "E" number here.

XJ1100; 1100CC (1983) ............................................E3.34 .032
XJ550, R; 550CC (1983-81) .....................................E3.36 .028
XJ600S Seca II; 600CC (1998-92) ...........................E3.38 .030
XJ650, L; 650CC (1983-80) ......................................E3.31 .032
XJ650L (Turbo); 650CC (1983-80) ...........................E3.34 .032
XJ700; 700CC (1986-85) ..........................................E3.31 .032
XJ700X; 700CC (1986-85) ........................................E3.36 .028
XJ750; 750CC (1983-81) ..........................................E3.34 .032
XJ900R; 900CC (1983) .............................................E3.31 .032
XR600; 600CC (1991-84) .........................................E3.36 .035

http://www.e3sparkplugs.com/catalog.php

 

Could be something interesting to try out. Ill have to see what the cost would be first.

I've always been a "the original is the way to go", no frills kinda guy. No iridium or any of that.

But this sounds kinda nifty.

I have always wanted/thought of doing the dyna coil upgrade as a long scale upgrade, and would these work if I did do the coil upgrade down the road?

 

Are these direct order, or available at other sources?

 

Nevermind.......
http://www.clubplug.net/cgi-bin/search.cgi

 

I am a manager at Autozone and we have them in stock.

 

I am a manager at Autozone and we have them in stock.

 

Thanks mwhite. That is the correct part#. I found them at Advance Auto, and they were listed as being for small motors like a lawn mower. :wink:

I know there are people who have complained about them as well, but so far all of those reports I've seen have been in cars/trucks. It's hard to say if those complaints were user errors, mechanical issues with their particular vehicle, or they truly had issues with the plugs.

I've put a little more than a grand of miles on them with no issues so far. Bottom line-if they work for another 1k they will have paid for themselves in savings.

Here is a youtube video that shows the 'flame front.' This is posted on the manufacturers web site and probably was paid for by them, so it could all be marketing. But it could also be accurate. The stated goal for E3 devo was to lower emissions, and a consequence of being successful at that is better mpg and HP. Time will tell I suppose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62KavugC ... r_embedded

 

Awesome responses! I'm debating on whether or not to get some. I guess if there are no complaints, I might as well!

 

Indeed -- it's one big commercial. Skip ahead to 4:00 to get to the interesting stuff.

 

discount meow?

 

20% boo-ya!

 

interesting.... how much do they cost?

 

$5 and some change

 

E3 plugs and other similar ones dont work. You cant get "more spark" just from changing the plugs. To do so you have to get hotter coils then standard plugs designed to handle the hotter spark.

I personally have played around with E3 plugs. Had one out on a chainsaw and hooked it up to the coil. Pulled the rope and watched the spark. Guess what? It just jumped around in random places of the "diamond." BUT it was still the exact same size spark as a regular plug. Yes at speed it might look like its bigger spark but slowed down its not.

Bottom line: waste of money...

 

crowdpleaser,
Watch the video, it does not make a "more spark" (hotter spark), it just makes the flame front more available to the fuel air mixture. The flame front travels through the diamond in stead of going around a flat anode.

 

Since most spark plugs go in at an angle wouldnt straight line be to the side of the diamond? Where as a standard plug would be straight line to the spark?

 

Yes the are at an angle the majority of the time. But they all have the axis of the spark plug pointing towards the center of the combustion chamber.

 

They're like 9-10 bux up here... I don't think I need to spend 50 bux, on just a spark plug change.

 

With all due respect, I dont understand what you said here. Please explain better...

 

The axis of the plug is the center-line that runs from the tip of the plug to the electrode. That line is aimed towards the center of the combustion chamber. The theory is when the spark ignites the air/fuel mixture, the flame front is aimed towards the center of the combustion chamber thus getting a more complete burn.

 

Save money; index your standard plugs.
I'd be more impressed if the video demonstrated the effect of the E3 plug over several (unedited) combustion events.

 

Yes but in order for this theory to work wouldnt the spark plug have to be parallel to the piston and in dead center of the cylinder? One reason plugs are angled is to get the tip out of the way of the spark. By putting a plug that has metal all around the electrode except the center, the fuel has to move around the metal because the plug is on an angle. If the plug was standing straight up and down (or parallel with the piston) then it has a straight line to the spark.

The only engines I have ever seen where the plug is straight is a flat head engine such as a 1940's ford or a modern Briggs and Stratton push mower.

 

Debating theories is all well and good gentlemen, but I'm not basing an endorsement on theories, angles, electrode designs, patterns, etc. The 550 can idle lower without stalling, it starts EVERYTIME after 3 revolutions sometimes quicker unlike with NGK's when it often took 4 or 5 times as many revolutions, and most important to me is gas mileage went up ~7%.

I know there will always be naysayers with new technology who refuse to try or believe anything could ever be better than what they currently believe in, and there will always be their opposite who embrace every new thing with zeal believing all the hype. Truth is one will miss the boat and the other will often get ripped off. It's better to actually test things for yourself and repeat until you can say with 99.9% certainty (because only a fool is ever 100% sure of anything) that the theory and results are proven.

So far the E3 results with my 550 and a weedeater have been positive and suggest that you are incorrect crowdpleazer; however, following the proper procedure would be for more people to try them in more applications and see what their results are. I'm betting they will be like mine in the vast majority.

Something to keep in mind is that E3's never claim to create 'more spark' and honestly I don't think that would create more power anyway. Have you ever had a problem with a match producing too small a flame to ignite gasoline?? If you are going to criticize a product and say unequivocally that it 'doesn't work' you should base your criticism on actual knowledge of the product and it's claims.

 

crowdpleazer,

1) I did not come up with this theories, the masters that designed all these wonderful machines we call internal combustion engines did.
2) I believe in these theories based on the years of experience working on and around people that work on said machines.
3) Do as I did and do a little research make your own conclusions, the internet makes this very easy.
4) I do not endorse or denounce the e3 plugs but I do believe in trying out new technology. If it works; great, if it doesn't?? no sweat,, some one else will get my money.

 

Im not a scientist and I havent done much research but my experience is very bad with these. I had a chainsaw come into work when I was a mechanic. It had a brand new E3 and would not run. I called the manufacturer and they said to throw that junk away and put a champ in. It ran fine then....

Hey if you wanna waste your money go ahead. Im just trying to help...

 

I will say that the failures of the E3 plugs that people have reported seem to be related to manufacturing defects and not to design or engineering defects. Manufacturing defects are relatively easy to solve, particularly if the plugs are being made by a contracting factory. It should be relatively simple to find a factory that knows how to make plugs that don't fail at the insulator.

 

OK I use E3 in my 83 XJ750K, I installed them a year ago. Now they are great plugs for non computerized vehicles. They do not seem to work well in the modern computer controlled ignition systems of the modern car and truck. Why I don't know. But for simpler engines that use the old style points and distributor they are great.

The E3 is what is called a Semi-surface discharge. They are designed to give a spark along the insulator upper surface to the adjacent earth electrodes or metal shell depending on the plug type, some designs have two to three electrodes and others like the E3 has a diamond design. This design creates a greater resistance to plug fouling due to the spark burning off attached carbon.

The best plug design is the Surface discharge plug which is designed for use with CDI systems and with give a spark under fouling conditions. Now this plug has NO grounding strap at all. It fires directly to side of the plug body. I use this type of plug in my 125 HP outboard as I spend a lot of tine on Lake Erie. Also this type of plug is used in the engines of small aircraft.

The design of the E3 is not a gimmick it based on the fact that if you have more surface to spark to you will have less fouling better more efficient burning of the available fuel. Hence the improved gas mileage. And why the bike will idle at lower RPMs less carbon build up at idle. No I do not work for any spark plug company and my information comes from independent motorcycle industry sources.
In total there are 7 accepted spark plug types, this includes two that are trade names. They are:

1:The standard plug
2-type plug (NKG term)
3:Resistor Plug
4:Semi-surface discharge plug (has many variations ES being one of them)
5:Surface discharge plug
6:Spitfie plug (a trade name)
7:Nippon Denso ZU plug

The thing is you need to find the plug that you feel works the best for you. And that's all I know about plugs. Also since I have been using the E3 plugs the only time I need to use the choke is when its cold out and then I only need to open it half way. Other wise just a touch of the starter and she's running. That alone is a good enough reason for me to use them.

 

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UNBELIEVABLE ACCELERATION
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So I just got the E3.34 plugs for my xj750 per this chart. However on the package it says replaces NGK BP6 and BP5 part numbers. My bike takes BP7 plugs so I'm wondering if these E3.34's are correct or are they too hot of a plug? The xj650 and the xj700 call for the E3.31 as shown in the chart above...I'm curious if those are actually the ones I should have gotten. Should I just try these E3.34's or would I risk damaging my engine if they are indeed too hot?

 

I think the plug comparison guide is just a vague estimate. Different manufacturer's plugs cover slightly different ranges.

For example: NGK BP7ES ~= Acdelco 42XLS ~= E3.34

I'd go with the model guide as you did. E34 is probably more in tune with the requirements of your engine.

 

I've always used NGK plugs until this spring when I tried the E3s (E3.34 as recommended for my 750). After 2500 miles, they are still working fine and there is no discoloration or fouling on any of them. My bike has always started immediately after the first crank so I can't say whether it helped for cold starts. Maybe my mileage is a tiny bit better at 51-52mpg average rather than 48-49mpg but I've been tuning all spring as well.

So who knows? Maybe they function as claimed and maybe I've just got my engine sorted.

 

I have been buying and selling motorcycles for along time, and a buddy of mine owns a bike shop and races sport bikes. I told him about the E3 plugs (4 years ago) and said we should test them at the track. The results? the E3 plugs were melted. 8O

DONT DICK AROUND STICK WITH NGK IRIDIUM

 

NO PROBLEM WITH E3 PLUGS. I have had them in my bike for a year and no issues period!!!! This is a matter of personal choice and I have found three improvements that matter.
First my bike starts with the touch of the starter button no choke of any kind.
Second I can set my bike to a lower idle with out it dying from running to rich at idle.
Third I do not have to keep buying new plugs due to low RPM fouling.
These are the points that matter not what happens on the track but what happens in day to day operation of my bike.

 

Just ordered a set of e3's for my 550 we will see if it helps! My bike has always been annoying to start from time to time even after carb clean and valve adjustment. I will update when my bike has a few hundred miles of e3 burnage.