valve shims - tool not working

Local shop with a great rep sold me this tool for holding down the valves while I turn the cams, so I can pull out and replace the shims. Only problem is, it doesn't. As you can see in the photo, I can put it in placw with the valve fully raised. In fact, there's almost a full cm vertical distance between the valve bucket rim and the tool.

Did I get the wrong tool, or am I using it wrong? Is the right tool available?



http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/08-0020/ is the one motion pro sells, but it looks identical to mine (of course, even with different dims, it would from the angle shown). Anybody know if that one does indeed work?

http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/08-0020/

 

might be a dumb question but you do have the bolt to bolt it down right? just asking because its not pictured, not to sound like a jerk. i know when i used mine it sometimes felt like it wasnt working/inplace but in reality it was.

Oh and please!!! disconnect your battery while doing this! you can find my thread on my broken engine to show you why it is important to do! http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=42706.html

 

here's your tool, put that thing away before you break something

 

The motion pro 08-0020 works great on my xj700. It takes some finesse, but once you get the hang of it, you'll place it right each time.

 

@sebwiers
In the link you put, there is a comment from a customer who used it on his XJ650 and reported the tool worked properly.
What is your model and year?

It is also possible the tool you bought has an imperfection (the point may be too short).

 

SilentRaven - Yeah, it has a bolt. It pretty clearly wasn't working at all; the shim needs a fair bit of clearance top come free, and there was none (well, no more than without the tool). Battery is disconnected. As is the entire wiring system. As is the frame. Actually, the engine is in a stand, and parts of the bike are in various locations around the house and garage.

quebecois59 - yeah, I figured that one was good. Mine is NOT the same tool, given the markings in the photo(s). I think mine says "PCCC 5-27" - its not made by motions pro.

Polock - what are you suggesting, just jamming the block of a zip tie under the cam shaft so it holds down the edge of the bucket? Damn, that's so simple it just might work.

 

for the zip tie you fish it in the spark plug hole and catch it under the valve when it is open. http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/p=250585.html

I have the mp tool works great for me

 

Not only does the zip tie method work but you don't have to turn the engine backwards to remove it. I used a piece of heavy insulated wire with the same results.

 

12/2 household electrical wire !! Bend the last 1/2 inch over a bit.

It's not worth losing your head over 8)

 

Well, there happens to be a length of 12g wire holding my swing arm in place right now, so I may try that. The tool photos were also quite helpful. I think it may be a bum tool, but I can also see how maybe I was positioning it wrong.

Thanks all!

 

well i think your safe then! i know that with a few of mine i had to give the shims quite the push with a screwdriver in order to pop them out, so they might be in there pretty tight! good luck.

 

You probably just weren't positioning it correctly. It takes practice, it just barely grabs the lip of the bucket, and I would regularly misplace it several times before I'd get it, even with prior experience.

But if you really want to check, take a picture of it with two rulers going both ways, and someone here could compare theirs.

Wire method probably is better.

 

I also had trouble with the tool. Even with practice, it would take 4 or 5 tries to get it positioned just right. I finally gave up and started using the zip tie method. That worked better, but next time I have to do this I will try a piece of 12/2 insulated wire.

 

I had to slightly enlarge the bolt holes in my tool to get it to work. Take a little off the outside of the bolt slot and it will work. I doesn't take much, so take a little at a time and try it.

That being said, I use the bent wire now--its quicker.

 

Well, I got my shims out. Fintip was right, I was mis-positioning the tool. The photo from BigFitz's thread was super helpful, so I'm gonna re post, and suggest an easy positioning method.



What I had wrong was the tool was rotated / slid back just enough to press against the lip of the valve opening, instead of the valve bucket.

What I suggest doing is
1) roate the valve bucket so the notch is on the "spark plug" side of the cam, to make it easy to get at. You can't turn the bucket once its being pressed down, as I discovered.

2) Put the tool in place with the bolt (or in my case, a screw from the timing cover - its a good length for this) just snug.

3) Rotate the crank (cam lobe turning AWAY from the tool, as always) while pressing the tool snug against the cam. The screw will hold it down, and the pressure against the cam beings it into the valve seat.

4) At some point (well before the valve is fully open) it will just "click" into position

5) Clamp down the screw and back the crank the opposite way (lobe turning AWAY from the tool)

6) Come up with some creative new cuss words while trying to "prise" the shim loose

Doing this, I was able to get the valve locked down on my first try, every time. I never felt I was in any danger of hitting the tool with the cam lobe, but maybe my engine turns smoothly (its drained of oil and in a stand, with plugs out) so was easy to control.

 

+1

cant tell you how many times i got the tool in place only to then remember i didnt rotate the bucket notch to where i could get it...

 

if you have a compressor, a little puff of air in the notch pops the shim right out. a little late now but maybe next time

 

I have that same tool, I couldn't get it to work at all. It was annoying, I gave up, and have been using a piece of copper electrical wire through the spark plug hole ever since. Way easier.

 

those "magical" shim tools are junk.... tried for hours with the tool, no luck, tried the zip ties.... got it the first time.... and everytime after....

 

I know tons of people use this method and have no problems, and if you can do it that way that's fantastic. I'm 70% sure this is how I ended up with a bent intake valve though; I'll be buying the tool next time and doing it the "right" way.

 

Using a zip-tie or the (safer) piece of #12 insulated wire will NOT put enough side-loading on a valve to bend it. If you had a bent valve it wasn't because of that, unless you turned the motor over far enough with the zip tie in place for the piston to come up and crash into the open valve.

I'm not recommending the "zip tie trick" but for many other reasons; the possibility of bending a valve isn't one of them.

 

It took me a couple of tries to get the knack of placing the tool but once I had a feel for it it was easy.

 

Ditto. With the procedure I outlined, I could do it right every time, the first time. I call it $8 well spent (shop had a used one in stock), not the least because hunting down the tool forced me to drive to a shop on the opposite side of town that I'd never been to... but really should have been going to all along.

 

Mine too took a couple tries but work great!!

 

Like what?

 

Only reason I can see is zip tie breaking apart and falling on the piston, and other would be carbon deposit dislodged in the process, but this could happen with the #12 insulated wire too.

 

There're two of the reasons right there.

There's also the possibility of splitting or otherwise damaging a dried-out but still viable valve stem seal by "rocking" the valve against it.

 

I honestly had no issues whatsoever using the tool. As long as you line it up right with the cam lobe it works as it should. Granted it's a little tedious

 

When I first got the tool it took me maybe one or two try's to get it to work on the first valve, but then I got a feel for it and it was very simple and easy to use after that.

 

I have two of the tools.........I hardly use them anymore. I have gone to the zip-tie method, too.

It is:

Quicker
Easier
Safer---if it breaks, it's a SMALL plastic tip that will burn up (unless you're jamming the whole thing into your bike.......then you other anger-management issues or something to fix first---------

Now, for those of you who are coming to the carb clinc in 1.5 weeks, remind me to show you the Ultimate Ziptie. LOL

Dave F

 

Dave, I can't make it!!!! but the birth of a child is a good excuse, right?