85 Maxim X - On going restoration - Pic & Questions

Electrical Gremlin:

No headlight, no dash lights, cranky!
Equals....
No power from blue wire with black stripe... (This wire snakes around, what a mess)

Traced the problem back to the starter button. The starter button contains a small spring backed copper jumper. The jumper normally sits jumping a yellow with red stripe wire across to the blue and black wire.

When you push the starter button the jumper slides away from this position, removing power from the headlight and dash lights. The power is then sent to the starter (I assume) where it is very needed.

The frame holding the starter button is plastic, which seems to be a little beaten, the spring which rebounds the starter button has dug a little grove into the surrounding plastic losing some umph... there is a very tiny plastic post which the button pivots on.

Has anyone installed more modern controls on there xj... For example a 2005 r1 control... Are there aftermarket controls...?

HondaHack: 58 Sutter? I dunno about the post recently, never had a problem until the last 2 months. RRR!

Tony

 

Thought about more modern controls but don't know anyone that's tried swapping them over. I would think they would have the same wiring functions but may not have the same color coding on the wires or compatible connectors.

Do you have guts from an old switch that will enable you to patch up the one you have on it? I have a couple of old ones, but I'm not sure how the internals are on those.

As you noted while the starter button is "at rest", there is supposed to be juice flowing from the Red w/ yellow stripe wire, through the switch and on to the Blue w/ black stripe wire, where it splits to the meter lights and headlight switch.

When you depress the start switch, that actually completes the ground circuit for the starter relay (AKA the solenoid). Like you said, that functions properly.

Not sure if that was helpful? Let me know if you need a switch and we'll figure something out. Problem is I'm in the states, and who knows how long it would take to get to you?

 

XHondaHack: Your more helpful than most of the people I meet in person! You should send me your address so I can send you a maxim x donation part!


Power Button Blues:

As you can see from the following photo... where the starter button spring sits on my x (right) the tension spring has worn itself a very large groove into the plastic... It has also managed to make 1 pin hole...

The action of this spring relies on being able to slide across the flat rectangular area as (left) and not get stuck like in grove (right).

The spare parts bike I bought... Paid off in 2 ways today! One for the above replacement plastic frame, 2 for showing me I had ALSO lost a small ball bearing which sits against a spring in the starter button and (I believe) provides added pressure and a home position for the button. (My bad on losing the ball bearing... oppps)


For reference the area upon which the starter button slides... and because of the spring and my ball bearing loss was failing to make home position connection.

 

It sure is nice to have spare parts around so it looks like you're on the right track.

I may take you up on the favor one day. I've been keeping my eye on another very unique bike that's about 45 minutes away from you (a Yamaha of course). If I can get the finances back on track (started a new job last week), I am considering a trip to pick it up. May be a bit of a hassle getting through customs, etc. but it will sure beat paying for shipping and a customs broker like I did importing my 750X.

Hopefully it doesn't get sold in the meantime and maybe I'll stop by for a visit?

I'll keep you posted on that and good luck getting your's fixed up.

 

If you ever get the desire to do away with the push to start and trade it out for a simple key start let me know. Just did his to my 82 Maxim and it came out perfect.

 

xHondaHack: Guess what arrived today.... There a post mark with the date April 22, 2013. LOL

 

I could have walked it there faster. Hope it does the trick for your switch label.

On another note, the bike I had in mind that is close to you is an FZX250.

Here's the link to the ad:
http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-cars-vehicle ... Z477467233

Here's a video of it running:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsJ_LoN5xwI

It's been imported from Japan and I believe it's the only one on the North American Continent. I was looking to get it and do some mods, i.e. upgrade to the FZR 400 engine etc. to make it a mini street fighter.

However, after doing more research, and being a 1991 model, I won't be able to register it for the street here in the states. It wouldn't be a problem with the EPA (their requirement is 21yrs. or older), but DOT requires it be at least 25yrs. old, or be on their list of acceptable vehicles that are compatible with US models. I'm kinda bummed about having to wait three more years before I can get that type of bike.

Keep us posted on your progress.

 

Okay... Took carbs off and could not find overflowing carb.
Put carbs on, overflowing carb still gone! (RRRRR!)

Start machine up, doesn't run well... worse than when carb was overflowing.
Exhaust pipes 2 & 4 very hot, 1 & 3 cool, not that I check this before.

Seems less responsive than before, idle comes down slower.
Has trouble idling. I crank the idle up

SWEAR WORD! HELP!

 

What I was curious about was when you said, "Put carbs on, overflowing carb still gone!" Does that mean you have no carb leak? If you have one or more leaking, it's probably flooding those respective cylinders.

However, if you have no carb leaks, I highlighted what you should check first. No spark for 1 & 3 will give you a cold pipe as they aren't firing. Being that the carb was (is ?) overflowing, you may have saturated the plugs. Pull them all and check their condition. Clean them up, install them in the caps. Then check all of them while cranking it over to make sure you have a good spark.

Do you still have the original plug caps? They may give you trouble as well, but can be reconditioned, so don't toss them. Let us know what you find, a fuel problem or spark troubles (it could still be both).

 

When I hooked up the gas before gas would come out the overflow pipes. This has stopped.

I examined #1 there is spark, maybe... it is not as strong as the others. I did pull #1 wire while running and it didn't make a difference. Pull # 4 and it dies quick.

Can confirm the spark plugs were wet on the poorly firing cylinders, picture turned out very poor.

I compared #1 to #4 float levels, more or less the same.

It does have the original plug caps. The plugs are platinum (whatever), not sure how to clean them. I tried heating them with a torch to get the wet off, but the bike ran no better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-TCRuCo-RU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewZ3ocfLzGU

 

So the carbs aren't leaking.....good. After watching the videos, sounds like an ignition misfire causing dead cylinders. Each coil is firing, based on the cylinder numbers that you have spark. So I would unscrew all the caps from the wires, and my suggestion would be to do a 0 ohm conversion.

What that does is eliminate the resistor within the plug cap and give you the full spark that's coming from the coil. You will need to run resistor plugs so let me know what you have in there...type and part #. Most modern plugs are the resistor type so you should be OK there.

HAP has a page about Maxim-X ignitions here:
http://www.maxim-x.com/sparkplugs.html#gap

However, the page for performing the 0 ohm conversion is still under construction. What you'll need to do is disassemble the caps by unscrewing the section that grips the top of the spark plug. You can use a flat blade screw driver for that. Once that's out, tap the cap on a rag (placed on a clean surface) and the resistor, spring and a tiny washer will come out.

Next up is to get a thin brass rod (5/32" I think) and cut that to length to match the length of the resistor. You should be able to source that at a hardware store, Lowe's or Home Depot and you will use that to replace the resistor. Clean up the spring with a small wire brush, and deep down in the cap itself you have to scrape the contact point for the spring. I found a "Carpenters Screwdriver" that is a very thin flat blade to be the only thing that would do the trick.

Here's how things look when you get it apart (minus the small washer).


When you get things back together check it with an ohm meter (where it connects to the plug and the screw that goes into the wire. You should see just a couple of ohms resistance, at that point you're good to go.

Clip off a 1/4" or so off the ends of the wire to get a fresh bite when screwing the caps back on. Gap the plugs no more than the recommended .028 in. when using the stock coils. Install and torque them, then connect the caps and fire it back up.

If you still have an issue, it may be where the wires go into the coil. Chacal has a fix for that I believe, or you can get another set of coils. However, once you recondition the caps, use those from now on. That way you can use modern plugs.

Just for reference, I have the Dyna mini coils, 7mm plug wires and 0 ohm caps (with Kapton tape wrap to help prevent aching to the head) and I run my Iridiums at .056 gap and it runs clean with no misfires up to 10500 rpms, starts fine (even in colder weather). These are bad ass machines when tuned properly.

But for now, we just want to get you up and running with out loading up a cylinder, then having a back fire blow a hole in your piston or throw a rod.

That wouldn't be any fun.

Then you can get to a color tune and sync. After that, take it out for a rip around the block.

Let us know if you can make any progress with my suggestions.

 

I've been busy working on my X.....just a little teaser for you guys:

Got some new paint.............

 

I can confirm my plug springs are exactly corroded as indicated, there resistors are silver still.

My spare bike had NGK plug caps, I swapped them out here is the result. These caps, I think had 5ohm marked on them.
(I did do a little experiment with replacing the resistor with a bit of coat hanger, but after check the spares put this aside).

There more I see of this ignition conversion the more it seems to make sense..... My budget is a dead duck.
Have you ever looked at a late 90's r6-r1 coil... very similar...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upqjlNA1I7M

I'm not sure how well you think it is running?
I think it is better... Not sure if its still missing... Lost my confidence here.

-The 1 & 3 pipes are still cold.
-My fricken RPM gage still is not working... I've been ignoring it.
-I put it in gear and it died, swing arm up.
(Amateur motorcycles goes crazy, news at 11 :/

HondaHack I'm liking your preview pics, is there an official thread yet, I want to see!!?!?!


Tony

 

Not sure about the later model coils and their compatibility? But I wanted you to convert to original caps to 0 ohm and verify the resistance through each spark plug cap. Using the spare caps you have, they say 5K ohm for 5,000, and you still need to verify the resistance on those. Using a resistor cap and a resistor plug strains the standard output coils on these bikes, so you need to get that corrected first.

Once that is done, you can install the plugs into the caps and confirm that you have a strong spark when cranking it over (with all the plugs out of course).

After making sure the ignition is functioning properly, and if it still misfires, then we'll move on to other things, like the carbs.

You mention that your tach is still not working. The tach has a common ground with all the meter lights (black wire), and the power feed is from the 15amp Signal fuse in the fuse box (brown wire). Are those OK? The third wire (orange) comes from the TCI unit and provides the signal for the tach to operate.

I know it's a challenge getting these old bikes up and running properly, but you'll have the satisfaction of having a very cool old bike when all is said and done.

And no, I don't have a thread on my bike, just not enough time to do it now. Maybe after I get it back on the road I'll take some more pictures and start one?

 

On the maxim-x does one ignition coil handle 1/3 and the other 2/4 or is it 1/4 2/3 ?

 

1 an 4, the second coil fires 2 and 3.

It still could be the HT lead(s) from the coil to the caps. That's why I wanted him to get the caps working properly first, then check the spark output through the plugs while cranking it.

 

1/4 + 2/3

 

Well..

I took some time to review all of my sparkplug caps tonight in detail.

ALL of the spring ends were rusty, all of the spark plug connectors dark in color, my resistors were decent.

I used my ohm setting on my meter and found 1 of the caps simply has failed. I put one end on the top and a long bit of coat hanger inside.. No current would flow.

1 of my little spacers was broken in two, the 2nd broke after a very brief attempt at sanding.

I'm thinking I should look for new spark plug caps...? Any recommendation?

 

"New" plug caps, like the long ones used on the X may be available, but they run around $50 each, if you can find them. Cheaper replacement caps are 5K ohms from NGK, but are way shorter and a PITA to get on and off when used in the 5 Valve engines deep spark plug wells.

Gather up all of the long caps you have (not sure if you have more than 4 of the original style?) so that you can do the repairs and get them working properly. It's imperative to get all the contact points cleaned up and make sure you do this:



If you can find a long cotton swab (the ones on a wooden stick), that will help as well. Don't use carb or brake cleaner in the caps (they're too harsh), only silicone spray. Soak the springs and screw in connectors to get them cleaned up. Then use a brass wire brush to shine them up.

The resistors themselves sometimes fail, and it's best to replace them with an appropriately sized brass rod. You will need to make sure you use resistor plugs when doing that mod, as the TCI needs some resistance to have the ignition function properly.

The washers aren't that critical to the operation, but you'll have to stretch the spring slightly to make up for their absence.

 

On my way to fixing, parts after a a visit to my tumbler.