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Jason's revival thread

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by jason191918, Jun 7, 2013.

  1. jason191918

    jason191918 Member

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    Go here for background story:

    http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=42970.html

    Bike has been sitting since at least '09 (most likely '08). Missing side panel, mirror, battery. Broken throttle cable. Needs tires. 36k miles. All I was told was that it leaked all of the oil out of it when last parked.

    I know little to nothing about bikes, but have done some extensive work on cars/trucks/snowmobiles and know how to use a forum/manual. Consider myself mechanically inclined...we'll see if i can get this pig running.

    So here goes nothing:

    1. Purchased and installed new side panel, mirror, throttle cable, and gel battery.

    2. Pulled off front tire to inspect brakes and bearings. Pads are worn. Bearings are good.

    3. Pulled off rear tire to inspect brakes and bearings. Both look/feel good to me.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    4. Drained coolant (found/used all of the lil drain plugs). Flushed with water. Refilled with 50/50.

    5. Drained oil...which i thought would be empty...BUT A GALLON OF GAS CAME OUT!!!???

    Rut roh...hopefully that doesn't become an issue.

    Refilled with 10W40? I think that's what it was?

    6. Drained/refilled final drive gear oil. 85W90? I think that's what it was?

    7. Pulled the plugs. With the plugs out, used a turkey baster to put a lil oil in each cylinder....AND IT TURNED OVER! Woo hoo! Might have some hope!

    8. After a week of sitting, drained the oil and refilled with fresh oil and seafoam. Confirmed low oil light worked when empty.

    9. Wire wheeled and gapped the plugs.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I have spark!

    10. Pulled the carb. Cleaned through most of it. Did not split the bodies. Did not touch the choke. Pretty sure I got the rest.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Did a bench synch using a needle. Reinstalled the mixture screws where i found them. Tried to dry set the floats with a calipers...not too confident in that...

    11. Flushed the tank twice with new premium gas. Found that the filter screen fell off the valve. Fished it out and reinstalled. Filled tank with premium and seafoam. Forgot to confirm low fuel light worked....

    12. Cleaned air filter

    13. Time to start!?

    Turned fuel valve to prime and fuel poured out the overflows. Crap...at least I know i have fuel. Turned fuel to on and tried to start. I had seafoam in a spray bottle to act as a starting fluid/cleaner. No fire, no fire, no fire...humph...so i went back to the beginning to make sure i was doing everything right...key on, switch on...check for spark, good there. Checked fuel valve and it turns out I went to off and not on....let's try this again!

    VROOM! woo hoo! Runs, but crappy. Needs 3/4 throttle to start and you have to keep it revving high til it warms up. Choke makes it worse. I used a vice grip to keep it revved and idling. Here is a buddy of mine posing with said vice grip:

    [​IMG]

    I left it like that and started it every now and then. Same thing. I read on here about touching the pipes to see which cylinders were running...found out only 1 and 3 are running. I considered running through a tank like this, but decided to go through the essentials first, then regardless of performance, run through a tank of seafoam to see how it cleans up.

    So here is where I am:

    Runs crappily on 2 cylinders.

    First I checked spark in every cylinder (only checked one or two previously). All 4 have spark.

    Next is adjust the valves...IN PROGRESS.

    After that is compression test. Then pull the carbs again. Clean out choke passages. I don't plan on splitting the bodies. Put adjustment screws to square one setting of 2-3/4 turns.

    At that point I will see how it runs and probably just run through a tank regardless.

    Soooo....what am I missing? I just read about replacing the rubber brake lines...will be adding to the list. Anything else?
     
  2. jason191918

    jason191918 Member

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    Why aren't my photos showing up?

    Question: What is the best way of acquiring shims for the valves? Ebay? Yamaha dealer? Anyone in the twin cities with some?
     
  3. BruceB

    BruceB Active Member

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    Member Hogfiddles runs a shim pool...contact him...
     
  4. pjk_xj700

    pjk_xj700 Member

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    Each coil controls 2 plugs, having each plug fire for nothing on alternating cycles, so you could have a coil problem.

    You could swap the coils around and see if the problem follows, a cool down in between tests would be prudent.

    There is a electrical test you can do on the coils too, but I can't remember any numbers atm. Using a meter to test resistance, i believe.

    * edit * I can't remember which 2 fire either, so you'd want to look that up.
     
  5. jason191918

    jason191918 Member

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    Thanks Bruce.

    pjk...I understand that...waste ignition system...but i have spark at all 4. spark is not my issue. :)
     
  6. pjk_xj700

    pjk_xj700 Member

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    Oh yeah, good point. Probably valves / compression check is a good next step then, which you already pointed out =).

    I'll sit over here and just watch =).
     
  7. jason191918

    jason191918 Member

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    I figured out how to get the pics to show!

    Bruce - I contacted Hog and he said he does not have any for the X. He might know of someone with them but if anyone else knows of a good source i'm still looking.

    No, thanks for the comments pjk. I'm a newbie and can use all the help i can get.

    Where is a good spot to get new brake lines?
     
  8. spinalator

    spinalator Member

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    Good progress, keep up the good work!
     
  9. pjk_xj700

    pjk_xj700 Member

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    Charcoal has the stainless brake lines, see the xj4ever logo up on the top of every page. I think there's some others around, but can't remember ATM.
     
  10. jason191918

    jason191918 Member

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    Finally made some progress. Got the cams off:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Bucket:

    [​IMG]

    Shim on valve:

    [​IMG]

    Bucket and shim off:

    [​IMG]

    Buckets/Shims:

    [​IMG]

    Good night!

    [​IMG]

    So here are my measurements:

    [​IMG]

    Does this look correct? Should I follow this table as shown, or can i reuse some more?

    Like can/should I reuse a 188 on Intake 2-C, 3-A, 3-B, or 4-A?
     
  11. SilentRaven

    SilentRaven Member

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    sorry cant say weather or not your measurements are correct but it does look like you are on track, and some people say that you can resuse shims and some say that you shouldnt, i guess that its up to you. i know that alot of people reuses them including myself, althought your engine and your shims are way different than mine.
     
  12. xHondaHack

    xHondaHack Active Member Premium Member

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    By the size of the shims you have in there, looks like they are the original ones. What I mean is, that engine's probably never had a valve clearance adjustment, because it's got lots of high 190's and even a couple of 200's.

    The other issue, which could be serious, is that you have valves that have zero clearance. With that in mind, you could have some burnt valves and could be looking at pulling the head and doing a valve job. For now, lets get your clearances in spec, then do a compression test to see how that looks.

    You provided the chart to work off of, and having done a few valve clearance adjustments on these myself, here's what I would do to hopefully get them all within spec. on the first try. Of the shims that you do have, you'll have to swap out just 11 of them. Or you could get all the recommended shims and set it up with those. You'll have to decide which option is best for you and your budget.

    #1
    IA-Needs a 185
    IB-188
    IC-190
    EA-Needs a 170 or 172
    EB-Needs a 175 or 178

    #2
    IA-190
    IB-188
    IC-192
    EA-Needs a 175 or 178
    EB-Needs a 175 or 178

    #3
    IA-195
    IB-192
    IC-Needs a 185
    EA-Needs a 175
    EB-Needs a 175

    #4
    IA-190
    IB-188
    IC-Needs a 185
    EA-Needs a 175
    EB-Needs a 175

    New shims can set you back quite a bit. However, I would first check and see if HAP has any available in his valve shim pool. You can read up on here: http://www.maxim-x.com/notes.html#shimpool
    He has been very helpful, but may not have all the sizes you need.

    There may be other sources for Maxim X shim swaps, so if any one else knows of a source, feel free to chime in.

    Now once you have all them set up, you will have to recheck the clearances. And if all goes well, they will be in spec. Ideally, you want all the measurements above the minimum spec., not at the minimum. If you go by what the chart recommends, you should be good. That way you're less likely to have ones with zero clearance the next time you check them.

    One other thing I noticed is a couple of you plugs were super rusty. Make sure you clean out the drain holes in the heads while your at it.
    Here's a link on a "How to" for that:
    http://www.maxim-x.com/spark_plug_wells.html

    Keep us posted on your progress.
     
  13. dubyaohohdee

    dubyaohohdee Member

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    Member chacal should have everything you need. See sponsor link at top. Search for and read the guides on valve adjustment by bigfitz and carb cleaning by rickomatic.

    Chacal will also have brake lines.
     
  14. jason191918

    jason191918 Member

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    Thanks guys. I think i will either follow the chart i posted or go smaller, but not bigger. Want to be on the loose end if anyway. Yes, when i got it the plug holes were full of water/debris. I vacuumed/wiped out what I could.
     
  15. biggs500

    biggs500 Active Member

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    Fortunately the ones you measured zero clearance on are intake valves, so the chance of burning is less.
     
  16. xHondaHack

    xHondaHack Active Member Premium Member

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    Good point Biggs, Jason will have to keep his fingers crossed after getting all the clearances in spec.
     
  17. Captainkirk

    Captainkirk Member

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    Jason, I suspect you will find your problems are carb related, The fact that your case was full of oil tells me your petcock diaphragm is gone, or your float needles are leaking. You need to go through those carbs like a hurricane (read Chacal's "In the Church Of Clean")

    http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=14692.html

    The X's are freaking awesome, fast bikes when set up and synched properly. The one I got running and tuned for a guy I know freaked me out when I rode it....couldn't believe the grunt it had.
    You have a great machine there. Take your time, go slow, do it right. You will be rewarded for your diligence big time!
     
  18. jmilliken

    jmilliken Well-Known Member

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    Jason, dont want to burst your bubble, but I'm thinking your problems may be related to carb shortcuts. It sounds like you have plugged enrichment circuits, and you are gonna regret not breaking the rack and doing throttle shaft seals + fuel rail o rings.... To be dead honest.... the first EIGHT times I cleaned my carbs, i did exactly what you did... and i had the same problems you are having. I did it the right way ONCE and the issues dissappeared immediately!

    Also, noticed you have both the high backrest + 6-pack rack (laughably small luggage rack). both are fairly RARE and are in demand by many on here I bought an entire motorcycle for just the high backrest + crash bars
     
  19. jason191918

    jason191918 Member

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    Question: With the chain tensioner removed, is there enough slack to skip a tooth? I turned the motor over with the tensioner removed and was wondering if it was possible that i skipped a tooth on the crank. I turned it over by hand and the cams/gears were still installed.
     
  20. moellear

    moellear Member

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    I would not think so. But I have only worked on a 550 & 650, neither which are similar to your 700X, so I'm not much help. I will say that I'm glad to have found your pictures. Damn I've never seen the head of a 700 taken apart! Pretty cool stuff
     
  21. jason191918

    jason191918 Member

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    haha np. lots of machining! yeah, i'm pretty sure i'm still in good shape.
     
  22. quebecois59

    quebecois59 Well-Known Member

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    Congratulations for your guttsy attitude! I've owned an X before but I didn't feel confident enough to dig under the cams...
     
  23. KrS14

    KrS14 Active Member

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    I disn't see this mentioned, so i'll present it here.

    On those valves that had 0 clearance. You HAVE to stick a smaller shim in there and *recheck*. If you just measure with the original shim, you could still be off after putting in what you think will work.
     
  24. jason191918

    jason191918 Member

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    !!!!!!!!UPDATE!!!!!!!!!!

    Ok, got the shims back from HAP over at maxim-x.com. Great guy who has a good thing going on with the shim pool. Highly recommended. Here are the numbers post shim adjustment:

    [​IMG]

    Some tips for people looking for help: I remember reading somewhere on here to not take the center bolt out of the cam chain tensioner. Not a good idea. When you take the tensioner body off the block, the spring pushes the tensioner all the way out, so you either 1. won't get it on, 2. will break something, or 3. have way too tight of a chain. Take it apart. Release the ratchet so the center piece goes all the way into the body. Install the body (torque spec!) and then install the center (torque spec!). Here is a picture of it taken apart, but with the center piece still pushed out all the way:

    [​IMG]

    Cam timing: I was able to not let the sprockets skip, but i still rechecked it. Use plenty of oil on the cam races and lobes. With the cams/sprockets installed, spin the crank by hand and push on the chain guide at the tensioner hole and then install the tensioner. Rotate crank a few times to make sure the tensioner has auto set and the slack is at the tensioner. Then spin it to the T on the timing cover:

    [​IMG]

    I also gently used a long screw driver in the plug hole to confirm it was at TDC:

    [​IMG]

    At this point, the punch marks on the cams should be pointing up:

    [​IMG]

    With the carbs out, i cleaned out the enrichment circuit and wet set the float heights (didn't do this the first time around). Also split the rack to clean out the fuel passages:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I punched a hole in a gear oil cap and zip tied my brake bleeder hose to it. Then used the overflow tee/hose to make a fuel supply line. Then used a turkey baster to "pour" fuel into the hose (don't use the baster bulb, there is enough pressure to overcome the float and have fuel come out of the overflow everytime...don't ask how i know this...).

    I got 'er all back together now. Runs better than it ever has. The choke actually increases idle when cold. Throttle response is waaaaaay better. Starts immediately now. Still not convinced all 4 are running based on exhaust pipe temps, but then again i have 0 miles on it, and it has not been under any load. I think/hope a couple of pulls will clear this baby out. Then i will check plugs for fuel settings and do a vacuum sync. I redid my bench sync after splitting the rack.

    Up next is tires. They came from summit/ebay via UPS wednesday. Last night i took the old tires off:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Tonight i get them changed/balanced. Might put the first miles on tonight!!!!!!!!!
     
  25. jason191918

    jason191918 Member

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    Also, i tried to do a compression check, but the 2 threads on my tester do not fit...any idea what thread i need? I have no reason to think this is an issue, but it would be nice to cross off the list. Allegedly this ran fine when it was parked 5 years ago.
     
  26. bigfitz52

    bigfitz52 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I think your 700 uses a 12mm plug like the 550s; I had to get an adapter for one of my compression testers too.
     
  27. xHondaHack

    xHondaHack Active Member Premium Member

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    Jason,

    The valve clearances are perfect, as none of them are at the minimum.

    The compression tester requires a 12mm spark plug fitting. My old one didn't have the proper one either, so I found a compression tester set at Harbor Freight tools that had it in there. Just a reminder, make sure you unplug the TCI before running your test.

    A bench sync is great to start with, but doing a vacuum sync and a color-tune will help you dial in the carbs.

    The tensioner has to be reset when doing the cam gears. In the past, I've always set up the timing without it in (which your's looks spot on from the picture), then installed it and rechecked everything after a few rotations by hand.
     
  28. jason191918

    jason191918 Member

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    Thanks fitz/hack for the thread size.

    Hack, yes, i will be checking the plugs/vacuum sync after i get some seafoam burning through it aka miles on it.
     
  29. xHondaHack

    xHondaHack Active Member Premium Member

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    Seafoam is great stuff and I see you've done a lot so far, but I'm curious to know if you rebuilt the petcock?

    What kind of tires did you get?
     
  30. TIMEtoRIDE

    TIMEtoRIDE Active Member

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    Your bike is sportin' the incredibly valuable backrest and luggage rack that so many lust after.
     
  31. jason191918

    jason191918 Member

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    I have not rebuilt the petcock, but i have tested it. Does not leak. Flows when switched to prime. Flows when switched to on/res only when i suck on the vacuum.

    D404. Original size.
     
  32. xHondaHack

    xHondaHack Active Member Premium Member

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    Take an even closer look, he's sportin' the even more rare finned aluminum
    engine guards. I didn't even know they made that style for the Maxim X.
     
  33. xHondaHack

    xHondaHack Active Member Premium Member

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    D404's are nice. Had those on my previous X.

    Wanted to make sure you checked on the petcock and keep from filling up your crankcase with gas again.
     
  34. jason191918

    jason191918 Member

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    yessir i did. could also be the seat o rings. i'll smell the oil on my next change.
     
  35. cutlass79500

    cutlass79500 Well-Known Member

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    When your done cmon down you can finish up mine lol Great job
     
  36. jason191918

    jason191918 Member

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    haha thanks!
     
  37. jason191918

    jason191918 Member

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    Did the compression test today. voltage was 12.55V before the first test and 12.1V after the last. Wide open throttle. All plugs removed.

    COLD: 155 140 160 155

    HOT: 150 135 155 145

    Good enough? I figure this bike has 0 miles on it in the last year and some wide open throttle pulls and seafoam should help improve the numbers.
     
  38. xHondaHack

    xHondaHack Active Member Premium Member

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    Respectable for sure. However, I would have shot some oil in the one with the lowest number to see if it would raise it up. Helps in pinpointing whether there's a potential issue with the rings or the valves.

    Definitely run it and hopefully it will loosen up the rings and help the valves seat better. You may even want to add a small amount of Sea Foam directly into the cylinder to help loosen up the rings.
     
  39. jason191918

    jason191918 Member

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    Yeah, I know What You sAying. I Think I Will Put Some Miles On It And Recheck Later.
     
  40. jason191918

    jason191918 Member

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    So I got it running...mostly...

    Put about 5 miles on it. Tuesday night got it started (needed ether to get it started). Back fired and ran weird for a while. After a mile or two and it was up to temp, she went like a raped ape and ran awesome. Put 2.2 gallons in it and some more seafoam (gas was ~5 months old...could be part of the problem). Tried to start yesterday AM and it was back to being cold blooded. Would've started with ether, but I want it more reliable than that before I drive it to work. Tried to start after work, and it started perfect, but it was date night so it didn't leave the garage. After date night, it started perfect again, so i figured i would ride it in today...but of course this morning it is back to being cold blooded. My plan is to use ether if needed to night and go for a nice ride. I think/hope it will just get better with miles on it...only have 5 miles on it now, so not too worried yet. Once I get that going better, I will do a vacuum sync, mixture adjustment, and recheck compression.
     
  41. moellear

    moellear Member

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    It's obvious you have carb related problems. Although I agree with you about the cold blooded issue on these XJ's it's surely not cold enough in Minnesota already. The enrichment circuit will need close attention. Any cold start requires the enrichment circuit, and when warmed up down the road a few miles then you won't need the choke anymore. If you've got problems starting now you're going to have more problems when its actually cold
     
  42. jason191918

    jason191918 Member

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    Arg....now i have another issue...

    When i turn the key to on, the front right directional goes on solid and the front left indicator on the dash goes on solid. When i switch on left blinker, nothing changes, when i turn on right blinker, it works fine. Any idea where to start?
     
  43. xHondaHack

    xHondaHack Active Member Premium Member

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    Front directional lights are supposed to be on with the key on (running lights). Rear directionals are only on when the turn signals are used.

    Pull all your directional bulbs and clean out the contacts (with the key off of course, so you don't ground out the circuit and blow a fuse, or worse, fry the flasher relay). Proper resistance is needed for the turn signal flasher, and auto cancel system to work properly.

    My guess is that you may need the bulb in the left front, as it may be shorting the circuit.
     
  44. jason191918

    jason191918 Member

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    Ah yes! Good point. I forgot about that. You are probably/hopefully right that the front right is burnt. I did have the right blinker on at the time, so that is very possible.
     
  45. redsix

    redsix Member

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    Nice work so far! It's nice to read along as you progress!
     
  46. jason191918

    jason191918 Member

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    Ok, so i tinkered with it a lil bit at lunch. The bulb is fine. I switched the front 2 and the problem did not move. With the FR bulb out, the RR bulb still worked fine. With the FL bulb out, I could hear a buzzing come from the flasher relay when i turned it to left blinker. I think the switch is fine. If the right blinker works, does that mean the flasher is fine? I think i have an issue in one or both of the left side sockets. The FL was full of water and corroded. I went to take the RL off, but broke one screw and then stripped the other...probably moisture in there as well. I guess i will try to remove/clean both left side sockets/bulbs. Anything else I should be checking out?

    And after looking into this stuff, pretty sure the reed switch is toast as it never self cancels.
     
  47. xHondaHack

    xHondaHack Active Member Premium Member

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    Didn't I say that?
    Sounds like the flasher is good. If there was water in the LF light, and depending on how badly the contacts for the bulb are corroded, it may be a smart move to just replace whole assembly.

    Get the running lights and signals flashing properly then you can move on to checking the auto-cancel feature.
     
  48. jason191918

    jason191918 Member

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    i now have the right front bulb in the left front socket and the left side is still kaput! you said it was the bulb, not the socket!

    :D
     
  49. xHondaHack

    xHondaHack Active Member Premium Member

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    OK, OK. So I should have said the Left Front and not said "bulb". That would have covered the whole circuit.

    BTW, does the left rear light up (but not flash) when you have the turn signal on?
     
  50. jason191918

    jason191918 Member

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    nope...none of the left side does anything (except for the indicator at the dash which is solid no matter what i do)
     

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