Oh great ones, I seek your counsel...

Oh awesome and mighty xj gods....

I come in reverent adoration of your great wisdom and humbly ask your advice for a poor xj newbie attempting to slowly but surely revive his trusty steed up to it's old glory...

I beg your mercy, knowing well (from countless hours reading the forums here) that I haven't yet followed all the (no doubt great... seriously) advice such as is given in "the Church of Clean" or elsewhere. Nor have I heeded the oft repeated mantra "Have you adjusted your valves?"...

Truth is (and yes, it's time to break out the violin) I am on a very limited budget with a wife and five kids of my own making (did I mention one on the way?). And, currently, this is my only ride besides my wife's van which she needs to transport the minions around on their various missions throughout the day. So... I really can't have it down for more than a weekend at a time right now. As soon as I get a beater truck, or as time and money allow, I will indeed do things such as adjust the valves, etc...

Okay, enough groveling and begging for mercy...

Here's my question:

What parts would you order if you were going to take off the carb bowls for the first time and clean them as much as you possibly could without taking them off the rack?

Keep in mind I’m trying to think ahead and make sure (as much as possible, I know ^$%& happens...) that I can put her all back together in a weekend and put her back on the road.

Here’s where I’m at:

My valve cover is leaking and so I’m grabbing these:

HCP1625 Reproduction rubber VALVE COVER GASKET, for all 1982-3 XJ650 Maxim models, all XJ700 non-X, and all XJ750 engines:
$ 34.00

HCP1622SET8 reproduction valve cover hold-down bolt rubber PRESSURE WASHERS, set of 8:
$ 13.95

HCP1621SET4 reproduction valve cover hold-down bolt rubber PRESSURE WASHERS, set of 4:
$ 8.95

HCP2080 OEM valve cover flanged MOUNTING BOLT, allen head hex-drive design, alloy steel, with a black finish. Use 8 per cover on the outer positions on all XJ550 models, 1982-84 XJ650 Maxim models, all XJ700 non-X models, and all XJ750 models. Does not include the HCP1622 rubber sealing washers. Each:
$ 8.50

The reason for the bolt is that some PO has swapped one out for something odd from the hardware store...

I’m going to check clearance on the valves while I’m in there and then (as funds allow) order the shims I need so I can replace them asap.

Here’s what I’ve got so far for the carbs:

HCP50SET4 OEM Hitachi carb BOWL GASKETS, set of 4:
$ 22.95

HCP54SET4 Aftermarket Hitachi allen-head stainless-steel carb BOWL DRAIN SCREWS, set of 4:
$ 17.95

HCP56SET16 Replacement Hitachi carb bowl-to-body stainless allen-head MOUNTING SCREWS, set of 16:
$ 15.00

HCP57SET16 Replacement Hitachi carb bowl-to-body stainless LOCK WASHERS, set of 16:
$ 9.00


Two of my OEM drain screws are currently stripped out. I’m going to grab and extractor set and get ‘em all out and replace them, and once I get the OEM phillips head screws out to remove the bowls I have no desire to go back to that outdated screw head (I don’t even use them in construction anymore. lol).

I’m sure I’m missing a ton of crap so I just figured I’d throw this out there instead of spending countless more hours looking at diagrams, pictures, reading posts ‘til my head was spinning, etc... in hopes that someone (or several someones) would say, “Dude, don’t neglect to grab ‘x’. It’s a must!”

Thanks in advance all!

 

My suggestion is to contact xj4ever and tell Len what you want to do. He can give you up-to-date pricing and tell you what else you might need.

Five kids and one on the way? You should work bikes...you need a different hobby.
I shouldn't talk. I have seven kids, all from the same woman. I've nominated her for sainthood because she has put up with my crap for 35 years. I'm still waiting to hear from the Vatican.

 

Bahaha! Yeah, all the same woman myself. And she's definitely a saint for putting up with me and the kids! Not sure which is worse (I think I know what she'd say...).

Right on. I suppose it's apparent that's where I was getting the stuff anyway. I'll just send him an edited version of this post (minus the sacrificial offerings) and see what he says. Thanks for the reply...

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAMAHA-XJ650-XJ ... a9&vxp=mtr

 

You made your own wife? No wonder you're out of budget...

 

Thanks bikeboy, ordering shortly. That's perfect.

JPaganel... :lol:
No, if I would have made her... wait a minute... this is public isn't it? :wink:

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005XQ ... UTF8&psc=1
this isn't a bad carb set, chacal can get you anything you need that isn't in there,

if you can't get a drain screw out, you can swap the bowls, i had one that refused to come out, so i set the float height on the other three carbs, then swapped a good bowl in and adjusted the height, and swapped back.

 

Right on. I'm hoping I can just get gaskets and get by with what's already there, just clean 'em up. New "guts" will be later on. Am I kidding myself?

 

First things first.... Holster that pistol there Pete, then like bmarzka said, get a cheaper hobby! lol like the others have said, contact chacal, he knows what commonly needs replacing when ya tear stuff apart...on the up side, as yer kids get older you can fully staff your own cycle garage!

 

Mad_Bohemian.

Got it. The holstering is out of the question, but it WILL be shooting blanks soon. Haha. And yup, I've already read a lot of Chacal's stuff and will definitely be utilizing his services. And as for the cheaper hobby... Actually (and yes I've got an awesome wife) she insists on me having (and hence working on) a bike. She believes it's "therapeutic". Which begs the question... Is she claiming I need therapy?

 

you gotta do what you gotta do, you don't want to give up motorcycles because you can't do it 100% right, shortcuts will lead to not as good results, or over all fail, but it is what it is.

i always have a spare bike so that i can take months to do any job, but that isn't an option for you obviously.

how ever, your not likly to get alot of advice on ways to do stuff quick and not to spec, you have to figure out where your going to compromise your self

but if you get stuck definatly ask for help. first time carb rebuild, and then to tune it properly might be tight for a weekend job though if you don't have experience.

just my $.02

 

good proper work always pays off better, in the long and short run, no doubt about that, but cut the guy SOME slack

 

It's a choice..

 

They can 3D print anything these days!

 

Brilliant!!! Where can I get one of these shirts?

 

My suggestion is to contact xj4ever and tell Len what you want to do. He can give you up-to-date pricing and tell you what else you might need."

+1

 

Kinda. Certain rubber bits like the tiny o-rings on the pilot mixture screws will also for sure need to be replaced. Other items such as float needles and seats, enrichment plunger boots, etc., will need to be examined first and replaced if unserviceable.

If you're doing this "on a shoestring" then don't just replace the float bowl mounting screws, for instance, unless they're buggered up. There will be plenty of other things that you'll need to buy.

I see you've read about the importance of getting your valves in spec before you can do the vac sync. Contact member HogFiddles if you're interested in the "shim pool" idea.

As for waiting on the valve clearances, don't. If you find any that are tight, get them in spec pronto. If the bike is as mission-critical as it sounds, you don't want to burn a valve and then have to pull the head and do a valve job. Some proper maintenance right now can save you big headaches down the road.

If you're going to truly rely upon a 30-year old bike as transportation, it has to be brought back to like-1982 condition (or better.) It can be done, myself and others have done it successfully and more than once. But the bike needs to be properly recommissioned to prevent unexpected downtime.

 

So... should I contact Len (a.k.a. Chacal I presume) and led him lead me in the right direction? :lol: (lol... just kidding all)

Thanks to all for the advice, and chuckles. This forum has become daily reading for me since I bought the bike. It's truly, IMO, an invaluable resource.

Fitz:

Nice. That’s the kind of info I was looking for, and no doubt will receive from Chacal when I contact him.

I've read a ton of your posts and truly appreciate (and expected :wink: ) such advice. Believe me when I say I'm the type of guy who does something right or doesn't do it at all. Sometimes being "wired" as such is a blessing... other times it's a curse.

Last night I took the time to read through the entire "Carb cleaning
adventure/questions thread!" found here:

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic ... art=0.html

As well as RE-read through RickCoMatic's "Clean Your Own Carb's - The Whole 9 Yards - by: Rick Massey" found here:

http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=2 ... n+own.html

*NOTE: adding the links for people like me who may stumble along this thread and want to know where to find these "staple" threads, not for you Fitz, something tells me you know where to find them. :wink:

And yes, I've previously read (and bookmarked) your "AIRHEAD VALVE ADJUSTMENT with Pics":

http://www.xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic ... tment.html

Not to mention Church of Clean, Clunk Test, etc....

I will be printing out the pertinent material (so as to not get my laptop keys nice and greasy) and referencing it through the entire process...

Understood. And I’d love to. But...

There’s no way (that I’m aware of) to foresee what shims I’m going to need until I check the clearances and thus, at the point in which I check them, I’ll find myself with a motorcycle sitting with the valve cover off waiting for shims to come in the mail.

Not really the route I’m looking to go. At least not in planning. But I’m not naive either. I’m all too aware that in trying to clean the carbs I may very well have something go awry and it’ll be sitting anyway until I can order, receive, and install whatever goes wrong or was unforeseeable before cracking the little beggers open. Which if that does happen, I’ll be ordering shims too and I’ll just get ‘er all done at once. But that’s worse case scenario for me, again not what I want to plan on.

Here’s my thinking:

If I understand the mechanics of the engine correctly, the shims wear with time making them thinner which in turn keeps the valves from fully closing when they’re supposed to... which in turn burns them up... to put it simply. Perhaps I’m mistaken about this, but I’m pretty sure that’s how it works.

And so, if that is the case, shouldn't I be able to check the compression on each cylinder and know if they’re seriously out of whack?

Don’t get me wrong, I fully understand that’s not even close to a replacement procedure for checking the clearances, and I will check them while I have the valve cover off, I’m just trying to “hobble through” til I can get the shims checked, ordered, and installed. And I guess what I’m suggesting is that if my compression check doesn’t indicate one of them is painfully thin (assuming of course it isn’t, perish the thought, something worse like rings), and the bike is running generally well already (I ride it nearly every day and have for months), what’s the harm in doing what I can for the moment and then adjusting the valves asap... within the next week or so after cleaning the carbs.

My goal at this point is to clean the carbs as best as I can, without removing them from the rack so as to not have to sync (because a vacuum sync isn’t going to work anyway without adjusting the valves), and then sync them after properly adjusting the valves.

I admit it isn’t the absolute, 100%, right way to go about it... but financially and practically it’s about the only option I’m seeing.

Perhaps a numbered order will be a little less convoluted than the above paragraphs. Here’s my plan:

1) order the parts suggested by Chacal for a thorough, but still on the rack, cleaning
2) receive said parts and the weekend following their arrival start dismantling and cleaning, one by one since I’m a newbie (at least to motorcycles)
3) also replace the valve cover gasket and while doing so check the shim clearances so as to order the ones needed immediately
4) hopefully, good Lord willing and the creeks don’t rise, put her back together and ride her til the shims arrive
5) upon their arrival go in and replace them that weekend and, at that time, vacuum sync the carbs

That’s at least my plan unless another suggestion is given that I like better.

Probability that all will go as planned... 50%
Probability that I’ll wish I’d never started the process somewhere along the line... 100%

Constructive criticism welcome...

 

When a valve gets to the point where it's affecting compression enough for that to be the "for sure" deciding factor, it's too late. Yes, tight valves will affect compression but you don't know what the motor was making with the valves IN spec so you have nothing to go by.

You're completely off base in your assumptions about the valves. If the shims wore and got thinner it would compensate for what really happens. But neither the shims nor the cams wear appreciably. What happens is that the valves and valve seats wear and the valves essentially pound themselves into the head causing the clearances to tighten. Then the valve doesn't close properly, and more importantly, doesn't spend enough time closed for it to properly transfer heat away to the head. Once it begins failing to seal fully when hot, you'll have a burnt valve. Too late.

You found "Airhead Valve Adjustment" but you may have missed "Part Deux" which explains alternatives to the hold-down tool: http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/t=29209.html

Check the clearances immediately. If you find any that are dead tight, park the bike. Or it will park itself when you least expect it to.

And I would hold off on that compression test until the valve clearances are in spec, lest you cause yourself unnecessary consternation.

 

Appreciate the correction and advice.