starter is spinning but not catching

I have an 82 seca 650 and when i hit the starter button the starter turns but it does not turn the engine just spins wildly. i just replaced the solenoid, the oil and the battery. Any ideas?

 

Does it happen to sound like a box of rocks when you spin teh starter? What oil is in the crankcase?

 

That was going to be my question: what oil?

 

spectro 4 20w 40 non synthetic, and it sounds like it is just spinning and skipping over the teeth. it will catch sometimes but not always

 

OK. Next step is to pull the starter and check out its internal gearbox.

 

If your starter checks out OK, do a search on this site for starter clutch. The wizards on this site saved me from having to split the cases. My 650 Seca starts great now. While you have the starter out, might as well change the brushes and clean the armature, & grease the gears. Good luck...

 

Same problem with mine but it rarely happens now maybe once every 10 rides not sure why though

 

In your case, it's probably the starter getting sluggish. OP may have a more serious issue, but it is still probably the starter and not the starter clutch.

Because of how the stupid thing works (and yes, it's one of the few blind stupid things Yamaha did but you can't blame them, they didn't expect these things to last 30+ years) but anyway, because of how it "engages" requiring not only a fast spin but a spin with torque behind it to actually GRAB it means your starter can't be sluggish from 30 years worth of dried out lube and general crud.

The Mitsuba starters that came on these bikes are quite good, and they were meant to be serviceable. Quite often all that's needed is a good disassembly, cleaning and careful lube, maybe some new brushes and it's back in business. If it were a car, you'd just go to the auto parts and swap it for a rebuilt. You can do that too, it just costs a tad more.

It's more fun to fix it yourself. And you get to learn a new skill (electric motor refurbishment) in the process.

 

This is exactly the problem im having. Every once in a great while my starter just spins and sounds like rocks in a blender. I can always get it started after a few tries then it's no problem. Guess it's time to pull the starter.

 

Or possibly change the oil;

replace your solenoid;

and ensure the integrity of the switch and all associated wiring.

Wouldn't hurt to get your battery tested either.

Even a brand new starter won't spin vigorously enough if it's not getting enough power.

 

How difficult should the starter be to turn the gear by hand?

 

It's quite "heavy" (not necessarily "stiff") because you're turning the starter motor over via the gearbox in the nose that gives it mechanical advantage. When you turn it by hand, you're at the "mechanical disadvantage" end so it doesn't want to just spin. Kind of like turning an unplugged 1/2" or 3/4" electric drill over by hand. You can feel the gear reduction.

 

That's what I'm feeling. Funny I'm in the process of rebuilding mine as well.

 

so i pulled out the starter and nothing seems wrong is there something in particular that i should be looking for? all the gears seem to line up well and they are not missing any teeth.

 

Check the other end. Look at the length of the brushes (there are notches that mark the wear limit), clean out all of the carbon dust (using electric motor cleaner), and polish the commutator (the part that the brushes run on), taking care to clean any detritus from between each copper segment so the motor windings don't short to one another. Once the motor is clean, re-grease the planatary gears, and reassemble, paying close attention to getting the alignment tabs in the correct orientation.

 

Most likely the starter clutch in the engine is worn. You can usually access it by the side cover on the engine. The starter doesn't usually connect directly to the fly wheel like on a car. It uses a clutch system. My bike has started doing it a little. Especially when bike is hot. If for some reason the oil looses its viscosity out will cause the clutch the slip.

 

Unfortunately the onlyway to access the starter clutch on an XJ is to split the engine case. Our emphasis will remain on making sure that the starter does it's job properly before we send the owner down that road. Oil viscocity has already been addressed.

 

the brushes were at the end of there life. replaced them and its working better now. thanks all.

 

Just took my starter apart today.....cleaned it all up & mic'd the brushes & regreased the gears

 

My 82 650 is having this problem as well only when hot the hotter the day the worse it gets during cold start never happens which seems strange to me seems that's when it would be under more strain have new solenoid coming getting new battery today tryed seafoam trick already new oil always 15/40 valvali e bike runs like a champ at 34k miles don't want to split case if I don't need to aside from things listed any other attempts oh starter rebuilt also

 

1. Starter or starter brushes are worn
Or
2. Starter clutch is going

I've never had the clutch go, but others have. I have always just swapped out a starter and end the problem.

 

JASO MA rated Valvoline for motorcycles? If it's slipping with that, and you have rebuilt the starter, then you'll need to rebuild the starter clutch. The problem worsens when the engine is hot, in part because the oil is thinner then, allowing the rollers to skip along the alternator shaft more easily.

 

Yes valvaline makes 4 stroke motorcycle oil I've now replaced every starting part but the clutch still same problem thinning of oil when hot good point.so is the possibility of access through alternator to the clutch true or mith thx for feed back

 

Oh you can get to the starter clutch by pulling the alternator, you just can't rebuild it that way.
The case has to be split, and you had better replace the alternator chain guide wihile you have the engine open.

 

Right on so when I rebuilt my xs I had mikes xs for parts is there a supplier for parts for the xj because I haven't found one so far except a handful of parts from eBay if I'm going to dig that deep into engine I may as well redo top end while I'm at it

 

Link at the top right of every page on this forum:xj4ever

 

When mine started doing this, I got a new battery and it fixed it. Now, when it starts doing it, I check the battery and its always low. Get the levels up and it stops. Not that this is the answer, just wanted to add this in because it can be a factor.

Chris.

 

K-Moe - Please explain how oil viscosity can affect the starter clutch, or point me to where it has already been addressed. I have no starter clutch problem and don't want to create one. I use Castrol 4T Actevo 10w40 motorcycle oil (MA2), with oil and filter change 1.5K. What not to use is the question.

 

What not to use is any oil that is not JASO MA compliant. More deatails in the link in my signature.

 

My bike has been having this problem since I got it (sounds like a bag of rocks rattling). I have been able to just work the starter button and get it started eventually but yesterday after 20 minutes of trying I gave up. I'm bump starting it for now. I'll change my oil this weekend and see if it solves the problem. I also ordered a rebuild kit for the starter. Hope I do not have to mess with the starter clutch.

 

when you rebuild the starter spray the starter clutch with cleaner sometimes this fixes he problem for a while not sure why

 

"Rocks in a coffee can" sound is the symptom of starter clutch death. Perhaps XJ550H's fix will buy you some time, but eventually you'll have to address it...