Still marble chatter???

Alright so a month ago I put synthetic moto oil in my xj750rj seca,only to find out I shouldnt have by the marble chatter upon trying to start. Since then, I have drained, replaced oil twice, with seafoam as well, also found out my battery was bad so installed new battery, pulled starter and checked it but its still in good shape, and it still does the unable to start WHEN HOT with marble chatter. Do you guys think it still points to needing to get the engine cleaned out more, like its still too slippy in there? Putting synthetic in it mistakenly wouldnt CAUSE the starter clutch in some way to go bad would it? It starts fine when first firing it up for the day, but soon as it warms up, it wont start...thanks

 

Sounds like the starter, not the clutch.

I had a case of the marbles, and the brushes in the starter were shot! If you have a spare I'd slap it on and see what happens next.

M

 

More likely the starter doesn't have the "oomph" it needs once warm to turn a hot motor.

I doubt the synthetic oil caused the starter clutch to fail; that being said it's also worth noting that there isn't really some massive oil feed to that area, so it may take a while before all traces of the synthetic are gone.

In short, the remaining synthetic is probably not the entire cause of the remaining issue; but it may be aiding and abetting a sluggish starter.

Unless you pulled the starter apart and had a peek, you didn't "check it." There are two or three threads currently running involving what members found when they pulled apart a "working" starter.

And whaddaya know; there's a voice of recent experience that got his answer in quicker than I could type.

 

Fitz is right on, as usual. I did the seafoam twice. But between the first and second treatment, I rebuilt my starter,new brushes and cleaned the copper contacts and greased the gears. Probably a combination of both, but no problems starting anymore. Thanks Fitz

 

I did pull it apart and checked , the brushes were still good, just a little dirty but not like I have seen in some pics on here, the commutator and armature needs cleaning but do you think I should still put new brushes on and all?

 

Also do I need a specific kind of metal cleaner to clean the armature and commutator?

 

You already have the starter out and apart. Rebuild it so you don't have to repeat the work later.

 

Alright we'll try that and hope it works,,,but what about the metal polish, any kind? I cant find glass paper anywhere...

 

For future reference; are the starter brushes on an XJ650 a 'standard' brush or should they be ordered from Len?

 

As far as I personally have gathered they're the same for 650/750's, 12mm length. I would think as long as they are 12mm brushes.

 

A mild cleaner to wipe off the dust. A large pencil erasure to 'polish' the contacts.

 

Mother's metal polish to clean the carbon off the commutator and to clean the area where the brushes set. Also completely clean and replace the grease on the reduction gearing.

Check out the rebuild thread in my signature.

Oh, and no matter where you get the brushes, make sure that they come connected to the starter + bolt and the brush holder plate. Much easier than messing about with brushes that you have to connect yourself.

 

Glass paper (3000 grit and above) is actually getting very hard to find. Your best bet to find it is a "mom-n-pop" hobby shop. The one in my neck of the woods closed last year, so I just used Mother's metal polish when I did the rebuild thread.

 

TSKAZ, your thread is the one i actually looked at as i was tearing it apart..thanks and Thanks for all the input guys..I love this website!

 

I've never heard of that Wink1018,,, just curious, can one of the wizards comment on whether That's acceptable to do.

 

I've never heard of that Wink1018,,, just curious, can one of the wizards comment on whether That's acceptable to do.

 

They might be the best thing to use, the white ones for ink are a little better than the pencil ones

 

Get yourself a fiberglass pencil.

http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/DISTRIBUTED-BY-MCM-SABU10191-/SABU10191

Might be avalible locally if you have a decenty stocked hobby store, or a Radio Shack.

 

Yea the Heathkit catalog

 

You can use some very mild cleaners, but most will leave a film on the armature that needs to be cleaned off also.

Why clean something twice? The metal polish is all removed in the process.

Pencil erasers work excellent on small brass contact areas, it's the same principal as using the metal polish, you're using a very fine media to "sand" the surface.

Clay bar on paint, wet/dry on aluminium, eraser on model train tracks, it's all just a form of sanding. (yeah, you name it, I've probably polished it at some point in my life)

 

Wow,well you learn something new everyday! Thanks fellow XJ'ers

 

OK so while waiting for my kit,I pulled my starter apart, cleaned a little,measured my brushes (10mm) an regreased the reduction gears. Still having the starter probs when engine is hot. Could a dirty armature and commutator alone cause this considering my brushes are still OK?

 

I started getting issues from the starter clutch after switching to synthetic (Amsoil) as well. As hot as the oil gets in summer, though, I'd rather deal with a bit of chatter than having to change oil every couple of weeks.

 

You know it might be that the starter clutch really is broke.

 

Well, not broke, but probably worn. They seem to become more picky about oil and less tolerant of a weak starter as they get older.

I also need to better tune my cranking pulses so that I can get the bike to start more quickly when cold. Usually the clutch grabs for a couple of seconds and then lets go. If I can get it to always start in that first couple of seconds (as it does when warm), the issue becomes moot... or at least gets deferred until it totally wears out.

 

believe me, they crack into three pieces. and the still work.... sometimes.... if they catch just right

 

Yep. And the springs can weaken after 30+ years too. An oil change can only do so much.

 

Very true. But I'd sure hate to split my crankcase only to discover I really needed a starter instead.

 

I just replaced my starter. I had the same problem. The bike would start every time cold but after even a 2 min. ride it acted like a dead battery. New starter and my problem went away. But then again my starter was f&$ked.





Hope this helps.

 

well he changed oil twice and had the starter apart twice. now what would you suggest.
could change the oil one more time, but i'd keep the oil.
or jump the starter right to a car battery, that's as much as the starter could give.
i really think mine was broke in three because the po just kept beating it, it broke three places and things don't brake three places all at once

 

Well the PO must've rebuilt it not long ago. It looked fine,nothing like other's pictures. I still rebuilt it earlier an I'm gonna get it on in the next day or so. I'll try hooking it up to a car battery when got if it continues. After that if it still does it,maybe it is the starter clutch

 

A good pencil erased has been used to effectively clean electrical contacts ( especially in computers or small electronics) for years yes it works very well but make sure to use some sort of spray electricalncleaner or equivalent to remove any residue when done. I use erasers all the time for this and it wont hurt. I use those big pink erasers you get that have the slamted wedge shape on each end.