Blue/yellow wire into TCI on '91 Xj600 (no spark)

this is driving me crazy guys;

I have an FZ600 and installed a later XJ600 engine in. This has the alternator on the crank end and uses a different TCI for a 2 wire pickup.

I have seen the engine run on a test bed so I know it works, I also can confirm the TCI is perfect as It runs on a friends bike.

I can't get any spark ATM and just to eliminate, can someone please confirm that the blue/yellow wire from the safety switches are basically an earth (ground) into the TCI to tell it all the safety's are ok? So all I need to do is run a ground to that terminal.

I get feeds etc into coils/tci and this is the only thing that I can think of now.

thanks for reading

drew

 

Hello mate


The TCI wiring is given in my Clymer manual for both types. It's not to hand right now but will check later for you.

Cheers

JS

 

thanks JS

 

In Clymer the wiring diag for 89-92 XJ600 (UK) shows L/Y (Blue yellow) connects to B (Black), Earth. with the side-stand switch. So a short across those would seem correct fro starting.

There is also another starting system diagram featuring a 'cut-off relay'. But likely the FZ doesn't have this.

Best

JS

 

OK thanks for taking time to check JS

I'm really having trouble getting a spark.

TCI works ok, coils and pickup coil ohms out correctly and I've even run sep wires to a sep battery to eliminate any starting drain!

might run sep orange/ grey wires to coils even though they have continuity.


drew

 

Kill -switch - Red/white wire - all good ?

 

getting power to the coils and tci I checked with a multimeter on the starter.

If I flip the run switch I just get a red light and no starter which is correct.

 

check your ground straps,
when you replaced engine ,did you reconnect the engine / frame strap.
check pick up coil wires . white/red and white/black , which come from generator cover
stu

 

aye, done all that.

pickup coil runs at 96 ohms well within 80 - 120 ohms

 

getting desperate and just bought a new pickup coil. going to fit it in a few days

can someone please check that the blue/yellow doesn't turn from ground to live on ignition as someone on another forum suggested?

thanks

 

the blue/yellow wire is part of the safety circuit ,it grounds via the sidestand switch. disconnect the switch to eliminate it. dunno what you mean by "turning from ground to live" .its just a ground wire

stu

 

ok thanks, on the FZ it is ground and when you turn the starter is goes live which is prob due to the diode/relay pack setup.

 

still no joy with this, I get 0.4 to 0.5 AC volts from trigger coil is this correct?

 

If, by "trigger coil" you mean the pickups inside the timing cover, then, no, that's not right. But, it's a big, spiky signal, not a sine wave, so you really need a scope to view the signal shape and size. Cranking you should get around 20V peak to peak. At high RPM, you should be getting about 100V peak to peak.

 

To expand a little on what the SQLGuy said, the pickup (trigger) voltage changes rapidly and is only at it's peak measurement for a very short period of time.

I'm assuming you're using a handheld digital voltmeter, and that's the case, they can have a hard time measuring the signal and giving you a meaningful interpretation of it. It's completely reasonable for you to measure much lower than the peak voltage. I could easily be convinced that your meter is in an AC range and is giving you a true RMS reading of the signal coming off the pickup.

Have you got a "peak hold" range on the meter?

 

I'm using the AC range on a hand held meter. I don't own a scope so pretty much all i have to go on. it did drive an LED so maybe its more than that.
can't think of anything else to do, the TCi works on the guy's bike who i bought the engine off (even seen it running before I purchased and took it home) I bought grey Dyna coils!

 

Does the TCI still work on the other bike ?

J

 

Can you pm me an email address and I'll send you the two wiring diagrams from FZ and XJ600 - which are photos from the Haynes manual - which was a free download!

There were differences between early and later XJ engines (Around the charging system) so there may be others!

 

Another thought - which TCI are you using? The connections could be different between models?

Looking at the two diagrams, the looms look different to me. There are different connections on the 4 and 6 terminal plug. Do you have the TCI from the FZ?

 

thanks I got an official yam workshop manual for the FZ and a Haynes for the XJ.

I got the correct TCI as its the one that fired up the guy's 3KM engine (XJ)

have photos of the connections (off internet and the guy's bike too) so that's not the issue.

had a new coil fitted from electrex which made no difference

 

The FZ loom shows 3 wires, B (Common ground),Gy and O to the pickup but the XJ loom only has two W/R and W/B as long as these are in exactly the same positions (NOT "B") on the white plug, you should get a trigger to make a spark. If not, you'll have to do some rewiring. You could forward the pics to me?

Take a look here http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/p=204859.html

I posted a pic of the wiring colours on my old XJ600 TCI.

I have found a photo Entitled "Project hack FZ600" on Google which shows the black common ground wire of the FZ600 loom where the XJ600 TCI is expecting to see one of the pickup coils. I am pretty sure this is your problem

 

hi, thanks for getting back to me.

the wiring is per your diagram

http://xjbikes.com/Forums/viewtopic/p=204859.html

that photo is of the original 3 wire pickup FZ wiring trying to get the XJ tci to work
I had to take a screen print as its in google backup



it shows the FZ wiring in an XJ and doesn't/didn't work

i did wire up the whole thing outside of the FZ loom via another battery (earthed to frame too) which didn't make a difference

 

Are the two pickup wires in the top two left hand plug slots?

 

Yep,

tried to manually fire the coils and they would not spark. the tacho needle moved when touching the grey to earth.

the 4 sets of coils I have never sparked either, so thats confusing as 12.6 v is there and ran a sep earth lead to battery from coil pack body.

 

ok I managed to get a spark from the dynas off the bike taking out the 5kohm cap and resistor spark plugs and using a nail instead

think I should do away with the resistor caps?

 

Do a search here - there is an article somewhere abou ideal resistances and I believe it is an either/or rather than "Both" with regard to resistor plugs/caps

I'm out of ideas myself!

When you get it running, make sure the charging circuit has the 4 wire regulator (Or I made one fit from a divvy with 5). The later engine has a permanent magnet alternator, not one with variable field/brushes.

 

someplace in here you said "gray coils". what is the primary resistance on those, any numbers?

 

got the proper reg/rec already fitted, thanks

will check the resistance article out too

 

the grey Dynos? 2.1ohms primary

 

found me spark;

combination of things

1) couldn't get to fire manually off battery, so took off the caps and the spark was very weak. even though Dyna say it doesn't matter which way the connections went,I turned them round and got a better spark.

2) kept the 5k caps on and resistor plugs as both = 10k ohms which is correct for the bike

3) tried an R1 pickup/trigger coil and it gave our 1.5volts, 3 times the old one. this told me that the one I have must be faulty

4) there was some rust/paint on the raised parts of the mag, so cleaned them up with wet and dry

5)installed a new trigger coil and got spit back out of carbs, so got sparks.

still need to wire it in properly, but its had quite a downpour today so hopefully will get out tomorrow and see what's what

she's not running as yet, but at least I'm getting there