Clutch Question...

Hi guys,

I'm running out of ideas and could use some insight! I replaced my clutch about a year ago, and it worked great for about 5k miles, but slowly I started to have shifting problems. I started with not being able to get into neutral, then shifting very clunkily. Now when in first gear with the clutch in, the bike pulls pretty hard. So I began troubleshooting.

I checked the torque on on all of the clutch bolts, thinking they were too tight and not releasing the drive train from the motor. They are good, I inspected the plates for any bluing or trouble, and they are fine.

The only thing that seems out of place is when I pull in the clutch, I can see the clutch decompress (through the oil fill) until it makes a small knock. After this point, the clutch will not decompress any more. (this happens at about 85% of travel of the clutch lever) I assume this is from the rod that pulls the clutch apart hitting the inside of the clutch cover, so it is moving the clutch the maximum travel.

Now, when I have the bike with the clutch in and I put it into first gear from neutral, it instantly stalls.

So I think the issue may be deeper in the transmission, like a throw out bearing in a car.

If anyone has any insight on this, I'd be happy to hear it!

Thank you,
Gato

 

Mine did the same thing when the oil had gotten contaminated with gasoline. Flushed the tranny and changed oil and it cured itself.

 

Interesting.

I'm not sure if this is the case because I did an oil change this year already, only a few hundred miles ago. Did you actually take the case off of the transmission and clean it?

 

Are you using the proper motorcycle specific oil? and is the clutch adjusted?

 

Gato; close. But it shouldn't be hitting the cover.

Your "throwout bearing, like in a car" is right there on that pullrod. That thin washer with the roller bearings in it, on the backside of the pressure plate.

Here are some possibilities: Cracked supports for the throwout shaft in the cover; the gear that engages the pullrod may have split; the wafer bearing may be self-destructing; the clutch basket is coming loose (PO had it apart and didn't properly torque it -- it happened to me and the tab washer was the only thing that staved off complete disaster) there are "divots" worn into the hub or basket deep enough for a plate or plates to snag on; you forgot to align the dots on the hub and pressure plate; or you need to re-adjust the cable/mechanism.

But if it's properly adjusted and going "thunk" and won't disengage any further and it's still dragging, you might want to have a look.

 

Thanks for the insight Fitz!
I'm wondering about the clutch basket being loose because the issue has gotten worse unfortunately. After I inspected the clutch plates for bluing or any other kind of damage another component broke.

I started the bike back up after adjusting the clutch cable, and everything was fine. I wanted to see if it would clunk into first gear, so I put it on the center stand and used to clutch to engage the bike in first gear. It stalled the motor right away, with no load on the rear wheel. In fact after it stalled the engine, it broke 3/5 of the outlets where the clutch bolts screw into.

To make things worse, when the bike is in first gear (not running) I can turn the back wheel freely. Even with the two clutch bolts still engaged. Something is broken between the basket and the rear wheel. I think I'm gonna have to open the other side of the trans up to take a look.

This could be pretty severe, but I'll get this figured out.

 

I think more that there are three things to do:

1 turn the clutch perch adjuster almost all the way in
2 turn the clutch cable end adjustments almost all the way out
3 pull the clutch pivot arm off and rotate it back one tooth and tighten it back up

Now, use a wrench or pliers and gently rotate the arm til it just stops. Hold it there and snug up the adjustments. Remove the pliers and now you can do the fine adjusting.

It just sounds to me like the cable is a little stretched.....

I assume you have the correct cable. If not, that could be a contributing factor, too.

 

Thanks!

I'll have to give that a try! Although I did purchase a new correct length cable from Len, oiled it and installed!

 

Mine was doing the same thing till I change the oil type and brand.

 

It stalls with the clutch in, but the rear wheel turns in gear. Almost sounds like something is installed backwards. If you put it on the centerstand and start it in first, does the rear wheel turn?

 

UPDATE:

So I have done a lot of troubleshooting on this issue and do not want to go further yet. I completely disassembled the clutch assembly and basket and everything checks out. I kept the clutch out, so that the input shaft was not engaged to the engine at all. When I turn the input shaft while the transmission is in gear, only the input shaft would turn. To confirm this, I turned the back wheel forward while in first, and the output shaft turns, but not the input. So logically I say that there is a disconnect between the input and output shafts while in gear.

So I needed a better look.

I removed the exhaust and removed the oil pan/transmission cover on the bottom of the bike. When I shift the gears I can see that they move correctly. It seemed like the shifter was jammed up, and after shifting the gears a bit all of the sudden everything is synced up and operational.

To verify this, I put the bike in gear and turned the rear wheel, and the input shaft spins. If I turn the input shaft it turns the rear wheel.

When it comes to the transmission breaking, I don't want there to be any issues. The thought of the back wheel possibly locking is scary. I don't usually believe in issues fixing themselves, I like to find an explanation.

Soooo....
Does anyone have any idea? I a bit stumped, especially without a full view both input, output, and middle gear sets.

 

Bent shift fork(s)? Have you been hammering on your gear changes? 8O

 

Hmmmmmm. I didn't think of that. I'll have to double check. Have you heard of this being related to issues with getting into neutral? I've had that issue for quite some time.

 

OR the "primary" chain guide is breaking up and the bits of plastic are dancing around on top of the shifter forks, jamming things up then coming loose...

 

Awesome thoughts Fitz! I decided to pull the motor and do the work that way. It's the only way I can feel confident in finding and resolving the issue. Also, I've had a bad starter clutch for awhile that I want to replace. I've tried a ton to get rid of the slip. Should be finished up splitting the case this weekend.

 

Splitting is relatively easy.

REASSEMBLING is critical; if not done 100% right, the motor is doomed.

If you don't have a FSM, get one.

 

I've got an FSM, and an XJcd. I've got the case split, after after looking at everything, it's hard to see exactly what the problem is. I didn't see any broken up pieces in the oil pan, nothing that could jam the trans up like it did. I haven't taken too detailed of a look yet; once I got the case open I wanted to take a break to get organized and refresh my brain. Probably spend some time on it tomorrow.

Thanks!

 

I GOT IT!

The problem is that the primary chain guide has disintegrated, and several pieces of the plastic had gotten lodged in places where it shouldn't have! I'm wondering if this has also been causing the "starter clutch slip." Meaning that since this guide has broken away, the primary chain was slipping over the gears when the bike was being started? Like the chain was too loose.

Super excited after all the work of pulling the engine out to discover that there is a problem. Now there must be a lot of meticulous cleaning to be done

 

Even with the chain guide completely removed the starter chain is not slack enough to skip over the sprockets. Your starter clutch slipping is the starter clutch slipping; nothing else makes that sound.

 

could be small bits of chain guide in the starter clutch mucking things up. it will take a very meticulous cleaning to get everything right.

CN