valve adjustment problem

I have be following fitzs airhead adjustment and I am not sure if I am doing completely wrong or what because The .08 will only fit into one exhaust and will not fit into anything else especially not the intake. I had the lobe Ponting up like perpendicular to the head. When I measured them all. I did not take out the shim. I am gonna pickup a tool that goes thinner than .08. The valve gasket look fairly new and in good condition.
Could the valves really have tightened that much.

 

it's not uncommon for the valves to be almost zero lash. if you cannot measure the clearance, then assume zero lash and figure shim thickness accordingly. then check the clearance again to make sure you got it right.

FU

 

Ok so I should do zero then do that execel chart and see what I need

 

yup

FU

 

So does that mean I have to pull the shim right now because don't you neeD that for your sheet

 

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So does that mean I have to pull the shim right now because don't you neeD that for your sheet
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yep, you need to know the thickness of the existing shim, to determine what size you need to bring it into spec.

are you using METRIC feeler gauges,
would that be .08 of a mm, or 80 thou, of an inch

 

The lobe should point up in-line with the angle of the bucket (meaning the lobe and the bucket should share the same centerline).

Gary H.

 

What do you mean by "it won't fit into"?

Is it:

"It won't fit into" the top of the bucket because the shim diameter is too big , which means I have the wrong diameter shim to begin with......

Or

"It won't fit into the space between the bucket and the lobe to begin with and I can't get all the way in far enough to even have a chance of popping down into the top of the bucket...which means that the bucket must simply be pressed farther down.
Now if your shim tool isn't pressing it down far enough, I'd recommend the zip tie method to hold the valve open farther so there is mor clearance between the shim and the cam. If there STILL isn't enough clearance, then make a thin spacer so that the lobe can push the valve down farther yet and the use an extra zip tie. You MUST get enough space between the bucket and the cam to pull and insert shims.

 

Chacal has the thinnest available shim in stock. you can get one of those and swap it around to measure clearances.

 

I am talking about my measuring tool won't fit in the clearance between the lobe and the shim. I am confused is the measuring tool called a shim too because I have heard people call it that. If I put a zip tie in their then measured it would that be a junk measurement cause wouldn't it go back to normal once you take thE zip tie out

 

The measuring tool is called a feeler gauge.

Hogfiddles refrence to the zip tie is an alternative (and in my opinion better) method for holding the valve buckets away from the cam so the shims can be removed and replaced. The Zip ty goes into the combustion chamber via the spark plug hole and is set between the open valve and the valve seat prior to turning the cam so that the shim can be removed. It is not used during measurement.

 

the measuring tool is called "feeler gauges"
the shim tool, is a manufactured "one off " tool that bolts onto one of the cam cover bolt holes ,to (artificially" depress the shim bucket so you have enough clearance to remove the shim.
the "zip tie method" is just another way to assist in removing a shim. instead of using the "shim tool" to depress the bucket ,you place a ziptie through the plug hole, so it holds the valve open enough to remove the shim ,after turning the engine by hand.
stu

 

ahh, k-moe bet me to it.

 

Hohenstein.... Maybe you should go to the information overload and re-read up on checking shim clearances... If you haven't yet. There's getting to be a little to much mud in the conversation with terms being thrown around. Read it and see if that helps, then we'll proceed

 

Yeah I never seen the 2nd article by Fitz and it cleared up the method of the zip tie and all of the words. can I order these shims off chacal.

 

Yes you can!

 

See? That was easy (slapping the red & white EASY button now)

Dave

 

Jeez Dave, you've got an easy button too? All I have is the "Difficult" button. Damn. That's why my project is moving so slowly. I keep hitting it, and voila! I find more things that need fixing.

 

ok been awhile since i posted on this thread but i pull 2 intake shims and they were both y260 i am wondering if that is stock size. what size do you think i should buy next so i can get a reading. Then i will be able to buy the right ones once i get that reading

 

What was your measured (with feeler gauges) clearance on all 4 intakes and exhausts?
This information can be cross referenced on the shim clearance table in the manual (there is a pdf floating around somewhere).
If you write those clearances down and also write down your existing shim sizes and locations it makes life easier.
This will open up the possibility of doing the shim dosey-doh and you may not need to acquire as many shims as you think to get things back in spec.

I have no idea what stock size would have been.

 

I could not get any measure ments because my smallest feelers would not fit into any of them

 

if your smallest feeller gauge is .04mm then the 260 shims need to be replaced with 250 shims to get a reading. basically if you cannot get a reading then drop down by two sizes to check it.

 

The "stock size" would have been whatever shim put the valves in spec when the engine was built. There is no one set shim size that was used on the engines when they were built.

 

if you get a 240 or 245 disc (Thinner) your feeler gauge will tell you the gap. intake is supposed to be 0.11 to 0.15. exaust is 0.16 to 0.20
then follow the chart
if you get the 250 disc you may still be to tight to measure

for your intake only you still have to pull and exaust disc

 

^^exactly that^^ and all you need is the one thin shim to swap around to do your clearance checks. You may find that you have to stack feeler gauges to get a measurement, but that's better than finding that a 250 is still too thick.

 

Ok that is what I Will do. I will get 245. K Moe when you said what ever is put in the engine when it's built that is what stock. Wouldn't they all be the same if everything was brand New from the factory

 

its a game of tolerance if all valve seats were the same and all valves cut the same, the lapped to the same spec they would have a stock part. +or- all add up.
also keep what ever shim you by as your tool for the next time.

 

The shims were all different from the factory.... You MUST pull them to read the size.

If you do it correctly, You won't need to have a spare shim for next time. Because, when you are done this time you will have recorded what size shins you've installed. You will also do your next shim check at the right interval. At that time, all you'll need to do is check to make sure clearances are still good. They won't get so thin that you can't get your feeler gauges in this time around. Finally, once you know your clearances you just check what shims are already installed on the record that you recorded and adjust accordingly.

That is, of course, you wish to wait another 30 or 40,000 miles and risk having clearances way to close again, and lose your record in the meantime. That way, you could do it all over again With a very thin Shim if you wish

 

Ok I feel like the dumbest person ever. I bought a feeler gauge that went down even smaller today. Then I realized I was measuring with the wrong numbers. I am so stupid. just to make 100% sure I am using them right. for example the gauge says .013 theN under it it say .330 under that it says mm. I should be using the .330 numbers right. I feel so dumb

 

Yes, use the metric numbers....you'll be in the few that say from .20mm on down. Don't feel bad, a LOT of people make that mistake the first time.

Get the numbers, and let us know if you have trouble figuring out what to do.

Dave F

 

Ok I measure d them all and this is what I got starting with intake
#1 y255 20 fit 22 did not #2 y260 15-17 #3 y255 12-15 #4 15-17
exhaust
#1 y260 10-12 #2 y265 12-15 #3 y260 12-15 #4 y260 15-17

 

I WILL NOT GUESS AT NUMBERS..... Tell us EXACT measurements.

For example: to say an intake is 15-17..... Do you mean a .15mm fits and .17mm doesn't? That still doesn't tell us anything because 1) .15mm is in spec but .17mm is way out of spec. 2) if a .17mm is too thick, then ANYTHING. Smaller will fit--- a ..09 will fit but it's also way out of spec.

We MUST HAVE SPECIFIC .XXmm clearances first

 

Should I stack my feelers to get the in between reading. can I press pretty hard and wiggle it to get in their. I pressed hard on some of them but I used common sense When pushing. The numbers above are the closest sizes to each other.

 

There is a 'feel' to feeler gauges.
Yes, stack them if you need to in order to get a 16, if a 17 doesn't fit.

Make sure the gauges are clean prior to stacking them.
Wiggling is subjective; you want to use a slight side to side motion, not a frantic motion while applying pressure in the direction towards the gap.
You should not have to use excessive force to get the feeler gauge(s) in the gap. Once in the gap you want to feel a slight drag, if it easily slides back and forth you are too thin with your gauge stacking.

You want to recognize what that drag feels like and be consistent with that 'feel' - this is to insure that there is continuity in how you measure all 8 gaps.

 

i got the new measurements
intake #1 y260 .139 #2 y265 .127 #3 y260 .139 #4 y260 .139
exhaust #1 y255 .203 #2 y260 .165 #3 y255 .139 #4 y255 .165

 

And I'm just doublechecking… These are in millimeters, Not inches, right?

 

Yeah ha already learned my lesson their

 

ok..

Intake:
1 - ok
2 - ok
3 - ok
4 - ok
Exhaust:
1- ok
2 - ok
3- need to replace the 255 with a 250
4 - ok

 

When do you think i need to check them next because i have a couple low numbers

 

You need to swap the ONE that is ALREADY OUT OF SPEC.....

Then the next check is in about 5,000 mi

By then, MAYBE more will be out of spec, but it a clearance CHECK. You CHECK it. If a valve is out of spec, you swap the shim. If not, move on. Check again at the next interval.

Your currently out-of-spec valve clearance will not magically reverse itself and become in-spec by the next check. Adjust it NOW.

 

Yeah I know am am gonna adjust that now but I thought maybe I needed to check them earlier next time because a couple numbers on on the low end like 165

 

In spec is in spec. If it's in spec you don't need to adjust i it. f it's out of spec you need to adjust it.