What could happen if... play along..

Hey folks,

I had an issue with the streetfighter prior to wrestling with my oil filter to do an oil change and I'm trying to understand it. Rather than explain the symptoms I thought it would be more fun to have a little game of.... what could happen if... ( this is a classic test to avoid leading the answers ).

So, here goes...

Question 1:

What could happen if I put too much oil in the bike and rode it around for a while in very high winds?

Please be specific on what you think could happen as well as what symptoms this would cause.

There are prizes for the winners although I may just keep them. Serious and extremely funny answers only please.

 

you would likely blow a bunch of oil into your air box through the crankcase breather.

FU

 

Your bike would probably explode...

 

From everything I've read (which isn't much) too much oil means there'll be too much pressure and you'll start blowing seals. If the oil can't find someplace to go, it'll make one.

Too much wind: you'll get blown to a shoulder with all the sand/gravel, and you fall-down-go-boom.

 

Normally, you'd fill the crankcase ventilation tube going to the airbox, fill that with oil spray, cause a major mess, burn oil vapor, stink up the place, etc......

Now, if you overfilled it, and forgot to put the filler cap back on, you'd spray hot oil all over your right leg, engine, road, bike, and the car behind you.

If you happened to forget to put the oil filter and cover back on,, then you SHOULD have noticed all the oil running around your feet and figured it out pretty quick.

The serious part, though, is that if you do indeed grossly overfill your engine, you will have your crank spinning right in the oil, whipping it into a foam. The oil foam is mostly air, the oil pump can't pump air efficiently, you have more air than oil in the bearings, and you can toast the engine in pretty short order.

So, tell us what really happened......

 

I think there was just a little too much in there - i messed up - I'm not proud of it... now I'm not sure that this was the cause of what I experienced so that's why I asked it this way.

Basically everything was fine - although the oil was a little old, I was planning an oil change that evening, I rode around for about 20 mins and then onto a road that was/is basically a wind tunnel on the side of the I-495 - very strong winds coming right at me. I rode for about 5 mins in that fairly aggressively. Once I got out of that the bike started to splutter... then it died... it started again and then spluttered and died again.

Now here's the interesting part - when I then tried to start it again I heard a horrible noise, sounded like a whriling noise or marbles in a dryer kind of thing. This obviously stopped me from trying to start it again so I got it towed home - now I changed the oil ( after a bit of a nightmare with the filter ) and really i was just doing it to see if anything came out with it... but nothing did. I filled back up with clean fresh oil and to my suprise it started right back up with no problems. Taken it around the block and on a longer 15 min ride and it seems fine.

So - I don't know what the problem was but was hoping that it was to do with having a little too much oil in there or perhaps driving in the strong wind. It's a bit odd really but I don't want to strip the engine down to find nothing. I do have to check the valve clearances again soon though so I will be taking the top end off.

 

sounds more like a temporary fuel starvation issue, or an intermittent electrical issue having to do with the ignition.

FU

 

this and oil issues sounds a awful lot like a starter clutch.

 

what oil did you put in? if it wasn't motorcycle specific oil ,then that can make the starter clutch, and clutch ,slip
stu

 

Vote #3 for a slipping starter clutch. I think that even with the correct oil, an overabundance of oil could cause the starter clutch to slip. It normaly gets lubricated from oil flinging off of the primary chain, not from direct contact with the oil that is in the sump.

 

lol - yeah it was specific wet-clutch 20-50 motorcycle oil - I maybe a noob but I'm not an idiot

 

you folks are freaking awesome - that makes a lot of sense and frankly I'm relieved. I will not make that mistake again. Just was trying to top it up but the glass has a bad reflection and I couldn't see it very well.

 

Most likely that......but, the Possibility exists that there was partial hydro-lock and the starter couldn't turn it.... Basically ending up with same sounds and symptoms of the starter clutch anyway....
But whatever the case, I don't think you're in trouble though.....

 

Now you just have the shame to deal with.

 

Not to steal the thread, but can you guys describe a bad starter clutch for me a bit more. I may or may not be very familiar with a strong intermittent whirring sound when I try to start my bike and fail. I'm just not familiar with the marble dryer sound.

 

Put a handfull of rocks in a tin coffee can and roll it on your floor. Same sound. It is indicative of the rollers in the clutch skipping along the alternator shaft instead of grabbing it.

 

Yeah, I don't think I've ever heard that. Is the whirring sound indicative of a bad starter clutch by itself? I'd liken it to the sound of an old Electrolux vacuum cleaner when it first gets turned on.

 

It may be on its way out. Drop the question into your thread and we'll get a good diagnosis going.

 

Word.

 

it's loud, it's ugly, it makes you not want to push the start button again. like Ribo found out, it's nasty and you think something really bad happened. if you have to ask what it sounds like you never heard it. kind of makes you want to get off the bike and puke.
the wirrr you hear is like a electric toothbrush, the starter clutch is like a dentist drill
hows that?

 

I have repented at the well of the holy IPA - I kill shame with beer... I'm good.

 

Yeah I really thought it was curtains for engine. I don't often fear the worst but that sound isn't pretty at all. I was debating whether or not to try and start it again. One thing still persists is that even though it runs well once started - if I don't ride it for a day it can be hard to start. I have a good AGM battery but it can take a good five or six cranks to get it going and when it does it splutters a little then dies and fires up good next go. If I start it everyday I don't have this problem.

 

Sound like its time for a new battery anyway, as well as a carb cleaning----

 

It should start up with a touch of the button.

You wanna know what that sounds like? Ask Elliott about the 900rk... And how it starts after a week of sitting cold at 30-40 degrees.....

Dave

 

Yeah, it's not the battery but it's probably the carbs.

 

Can confirm. Starts like my bike starts... at the gas pump after 100 miles lol

 

Have the battery load tested anyway, and check its self-discharge rate. Do this even if it is a brand new battery.

 

So it does start with a push of the button if I start it every day - If miss a day it take a number of cranks, if I miss 2-3 days it takes more but the battery just keeps on trying ( I will test it though moe ).

Can anyone identify what is going on technically that's causing this? Besides cleaning the carbs and testing the battery is there anything else I can do. When it does start the choke ( I know it's not a real choke) is very sensitive and it's hard to find the sweet spot till it's warmed up.

 

have you done a compression test? maybe the oil runs out of the rings and the compression is low until the rings get some more oil on them. another thought is that the flot levels drop due to evaporation, you might try setting the fuel valve to prime for a minute before trying to start it.

FU

 

Here is my experience.

Hard to start after a few days of sitting. Starter clutch slipped nearly every time.

Replaced starter clutch. Replaced battery. Starts at the push of a button every time, no matter how long it sits.

 

So edumacate me please - what does the starter clutch do?

 

The starter clutch allows the starter to spin the engine for starting, and prevents the engine from spinning the starter once the engine is running. At some point they all need worked on (rollers and springs replaced at least). When they start skipping instead of engaging cleanly it causes the operator (you) to thumb the starter button multiple times in order to get (hopefully) the starter clutch to engage and spin the engine over. The extra starting cycles are really hard on a small battery. Eventually the repeated discharging below what is normaly expected for a starting cycle will cause the battery to have a higher self-discharge rate (and eventually not be able to hold a charge at all). A day or two of sitting can be enough for a battery to self-discharge just enough so that it can spin the engine over, but not have enough left to get a consistant spark.

Having said that, this is not the only thing that could be causing your problem. It just happens to be the one that jumps out at me given what we know about your machine.

 

Typically, when the starter clutch fails, it sounds like marbles rolling being shaken while inside of a tin can when you're trying to crank over the engine. The only case where that noise may not occur is when the engine has been filled with non-wet-clutch oil and/or had friction reducers (i.e. STP or the equivalent) added to the oil.

 

why does it crank but not spark? say your battery starts off at 12v and you turn the key and hit start. the starter drops the voltage down to 8v. but the ignition system needs 8.5v to make sparks, it can't make a little spark with less volts, it's either a full spark or nothing. so the starter cranks happily along but no sparks happen. sometimes you can get a little sputter just when you let off the start button because the voltage jumps back up and you get a spark. this is why sometimes you can push start a bike that won't start with the starter.
i made those numbers up, i don't know what they really are, you get the idea