Help me diagnose starting my XJ

Details:

'82 XJ 750
Was having issues getting it to start via the button, battery was replaced last year, battery is charged and testing out fine. Able to bump start it and ride just fine.

After researching, I decided to rebuild my starter as that seemed to be the culprit, got a kit and rebuilt per:
http://www.xj4ever.com/starter brush replacement.pdf

When I go to start it now, I get sparks coming from the starter solenoid. No idea what is causing this. I am stuck and looking for some ideas on what to check next. All I did was pull the starter, install the new brushes, and reinstall it. This sparking never occurred until I put the starter back in.


This is the solenoid that sparks. Could something I did in the starter have caused this? I'm frustrated and looking for some guidance.

Thanks all.

 

where do you see sparks?

 

sparks are coming from under the boots, i had them pulled back before the picture. the battery negative terminal also sparked.

i threw the old brushes back into the starter this morning and still get the sparks. i feel like i am chasing my tail with this bike, fix one problem, another pops up

 

clean what ever connections are sparking. crocus paper is good and cleaning fluid
are they sparking to themselvs or arcing to a ground point

 

If you use a screwdriver to connect the posts under the rubber caps will the starter spin? (note, there will be sparks when you do this, and that's OK). If the starter spins then I suggest just replacing the starter solenoid with at new one.

 

Cleaned all the connections, recharged the battery, when I short across the solenoid with a screw driver I get a lot of sparks/rubber burning, but I don't hear the starter spinning. When I short across the posts the battery goes dead really quickly so I have to recharge. Sparks go flying as long as I hold a screwdriver there and then I just get nothing after a little bit. If I just push the starter button in with a full charge, i hear that standard clicking noise like it's trying to engage the starter, but it also sizzles and burns the post covers. It seems like I hooked something up backwards or something, really odd as I don't know how that is possible. The starter rebuild was a pretty simple procedure, I think the solenoid thing is something new. I ordered a new one so we'll see if that does anything, I am not hopeful at this point. So far this year I have about 20 miles on my XJ and about 10 hours of wrench time into it. Bad ratio of work to ride time. Pretty disappointing as the riding season is short enough as it is. Thanks for any ideas/suggestions you kind gentlemen are sharing.

 

Beazy, where in Cheesehead land are you?

 

Western WI

 

Check the insulators on the starter positive post. Sounds like the positive stud is shorted to ground. The plastic insulator internal to the starter is easily broken.

 

Ah, thank you Rooster. That makes sense. I will pull my starter out again and make sure it's insulated from the chassis. I bet that is it what my issue is.

 

Oohh in the driftless area? You need to get that bike running cause those roads are beautiful out there.

Rooster is wise to the ways of 'lectricity.

 

Well, got the starter pulled apart again, and the positive wire is definitely insulated now. Went to hook it back up and as soon as I hit the wire from the bike to the starter it started spinning, woah... Scared the crap out of me. Not sure why there was live power there, so I unhooked the battery, then hooked the starter back up. Hooked up the battery again and it was sparking a bit while doing that, and then nothing. Battery is dead, again, so I'm charging it, then I'll give it another shot. The starter definitely moved though, so that's an awesome sign. I don't know why that wire was live though, so that is concerning. The key was not in the ignition, yet it was trying to fire off the starter. Weird. Crossing my fingers for some action in a while. Thanks again.

 

May have welded the solenoid closed, which would be just like sticking a screwdriver across those two big terminals. You can try rapping on it a bit and then with the starter disconnected see if you can get it to start clicking again when the start button is depressed. Make sure the starter wire is not touching chassis when doing this. If it got that hot it is probably toast and will need to be replaced - same goes for the battery, it may be damaged from the excessive load.

 

a word of caution while you're working on this. all batteries except LiPo make hydrogen, the "air" left in the top of your battery is probably mostly hydrogen, it explodes! If you should get a spark inside your battery (it happens) you could pop the caps off or it could split the battery and spill acid all over you and the bike.
Keep a rag tucked over the battery and some baking soda handy. With all that charging keep an eye on the overflow tube and keep the water level topped off.

 

Well, good thing I have a new solenoid on the way I guess. I think the battery is toast. It was an AGM type, which I don't think will explode like the water ones, but I don't know. Either way, it's not taking a charge anymore. I'm going to grab a new battery tomorrow. Should I wait for the solenoid to arrive before hooking up the new battery? I don't want to damage the new battery, wife would kill me if I had to buy yet another one.

 

Wait for the new solenoid.

 

Patient I will be.

 

AGM uses the same chemistry as a regular wet battery, they still make hydrogen but there isn't near as much inside the battery.
you should save your new battery until this is fixed, if you have a car charger just use that in place of the battery. It's strong enough to let you know it's fixed but it won't burn up any wires

 

Update, replaced the battery, and replaced the starter solenoid and she fired right up and purred. YEEHAW. Took it for a nice long ride today, and it felt amazing. So happy to be back on the road again. Thanks for all the troubleshooting advice gentlemen, this is a great forum.

 

I bet the solenoid was fried