Potential clutch binding

Hello all,

Long time lurker on this forum, I've had my 1981 XJ650 Maxim since last year. I picked it up with no front brakes, tough to start it, only three cylinders firing and a dry rotted real wheel, It had been sitting outside for sometime. It was all there, but it was ugly, I intended it to be a project. The posts on this forum have been invaluable in fixing her up, and I'm greatly appreciative. I apologize at the outset here, this is a lengthy post. I'm just trying to give as much backstory and details as I can. I tried searching for similar posts that could help me and I've tried some things from them, but no luck.

TL;DR - Clutch won't engage.

A year after getting it, the bike is doing much better. Front brakes rebuilt, carburetors obsessively cleaned and adjusted, polished all over and new rubber front and back. She runs hard and buried the speedo first time out. One problem though, the clutch slipped a good bit. After endless adjustment of the clutch cable, it still slipped. Despite never working on a clutch before, I decided to replace mine. This is how I learn.

I ordered new drive plates, friction plates, and springs according to this Yahoo Answer entry:

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110509204343AA1VfZd

While putting the new friction plates and drive plates in, I noticed that only 7 fit instead of 8 (mysterious). I bolted it back up and refilled with oil.

On starting the bike up in neutral, with the bike on the center stand, the rear wheel started creeping. I went ahead and shifted into first and got a mighty clunk and the wheel began spinning before I released the clutch.

... Uh oh.

I checked clutch cable adjustment. With a bit of finangling, I managed to get around the block a couple of times. I'd had to ride my Ninja before with a busted clutch cable, so I was a bit used to the process. I was hoping for a brief "break in". After getting back to the driveway, I checked again on the center stand. Same issue.

It was at this point I noticed that I had under-filled the oil by about half a liter. I know... I know... I'm embarrassed already. I added in the fill oil. (In my defense, I had put it in, scrambling to get the bike operational enough to move to my new home a few blocks away, where I have a garage).

I feel like the clutch isn't engaging fully. I took a peek at it through the oil fill slot while squeezing the clutch lever and I see some movement.

... some.

After a short travel, I hear a soft clunk which I assume is the post in the middle of the pressure plate (not sure of terms, bear with me and ask clarifying questions if you have them, I'm sorry) contacting the clutch cover. The cable tightens just a bit further past that point, but no further pressure plate travel. The bracket the clutch cable goes through bends slightly as I squeeze harder. That's why I assume the pressure plate is traveling just as far as it can. I'd estimate that the pressure plate moves perhaps half a centimeter.

I noticed that the entire stack of friction and drive plates moves together. At this point, I'm not sure if my clutch plates are all bound, or if it is just the natural adhesion of oil.

Finally, after all that backstory and rambling in which I hope I headed off any questions about what it had been through or what I had done to it, I'm looking for help. 1) Who thinks I bound the clutch plates? My basket doesn't appear notched. 2) Can over-tightening the pressure plate bolts result in less travel? 3) Any chance anyone else wants to go take a peek at theirs and see how far that pressure plate "should" move? 4) Are there any suggestions or operating experience for something I may have missed?

I'm trying to avoid taking off the clutch cover again and ordering another gasket (I'm on my second, the first wasn't seated correctly and ended up tearing.) until I know more clearly what I'm doing. I'm not opposed to ordering another, just want to see if it could be anything else first.

Be gentle... If I messed it up, I messed it up, and I'll take that with humility, but be nice about it if you could. I'm just trying to get her back to a roadworthy bike. It's run about 1-2 miles with these clutch problems after the replacement, and I don't want to run it further until I can be confident I won't damage the transmission.

Thanks everyone

 

you didn't mention the dots on the pressure plate and the basket. 8 plates out and 7 in just ain't going to work, what kind of clutch is it ? oem or aftermarket. if you don't have a book....get a book.
you want to use a torque wrench on those clutch bolts with a dab of loc-tite. the arm the clutch cable goes to should never bend.
you are going to take the cover off again, you can save the gasket with enough RTV.
north, south, east or west 'Burg. nobody's from Pittsburgh, well maybe one.

 

If the indent on the spindle collar and the cover mark aren't aligned the clutch doesn't have complete throw out. Remove the c-clip, remove the collar, rotate the spindle cw until it bottoms out, replace the collar with the two marks in alignment, replace the c-clip and re-adjust the cable. Hope this helps.

Gary H.

 

It's a wet clutch did you presoak the plates in oil? And the pressure plate only moves about 3mm

 

Most of what is covered in this thread http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/clutches-101-part-1-the-400-550-600s-with-pics.29541/ is also applicable to your machine.

FYI Yahoo answers is not exactly a reliable source of good information.

 

Thanks for your replies all!

@Polock, I made sure to get the dots lined up, I encountered that issue before getting everything buttoned up and got them in alignment. Sounds to me like 8/7 on those plates is just nonsense. It's a stock clutch, EBC plates. I've got a book, but I think I need a better one. I was disappointed with the amount of detail. I live in West Pittsburgh, along 65. I work out your direction though in Shippingport.

@rocs82650, I thought I had those in alignment, but after retorquing my pressure plate bolts as Polock recommended, I'll make sure it goes back together with those lined up.

@Toomanybikes, Yes, the plates were presoaked for about 4 hours. 3mm seems like about the same amount mine is moving so that's encouraging, I think

@k-moe, You are definitely right there... lesson learned! Thanks for posting that thread, I'll be poring over it closely as I move forward.

I'll get on this after work and see what I can get worked out. Thanks again!

 

Got the clutch cover back off. The good news is none of my plates appear to have any warping or binding.

I have a sneaking suspicion that I messed up in over-torquing my pressure plate bolts. I'll be getting the bike back together soon but.... The bad news is I destroyed my gasket. So I get to wait a few days for a new one. Gasket is ordered, and in the intervening days I'll be cleaning. May go ahead and toss the plates in oil too for good measure. Why not, right?

Thanks again for all your help. Fingers crossed it goes back together and adjusts well. (Less finger crossing needed if I just follow the flipping guide I guess.)

 

see what you can do about getting all the plates in. those bolts go in and bottom out, over tightening them won't change the clutch action. but it can strip the clutch boss. use the torque wrench and loc-tite

 

If there's ANY doubt about the integrity of the clutch boss (that those bolts screw into), then get a replacement. Having the hub shatter/come apart came be a life-changing (or ending) experience. I would also replace the bolts with a new set, they really are a "disposable" item.

Also, make sure that the metal DRIVE PLATES (7) are the correct 1.55mm thick plates, the XJ700/XJ900 plates are the same size and will physically fit the hub, but they are 2.00mm thick, that's 0.45mm x 7 = 3.15mm thicker (taller stack) when installed, that could cause a binding event.

 

yea, what he said

 

KA-POW!! Wow, that's not what you want to find behind door number one!

 

I don't believe I bottomed out the bolts, so my clutch boss should be ok. I'll look it over closely for any signs of distress before I call it "good". I definitely want to pick up a new set of bolts. Is there any recommended place I go?

(At this point in typing my post, I wandered off to check the clutch boss)

Oh dear lord... I think I found my problem, and it's a huge and embarrassing one. I briefly thought about not sharing this, but decided if anyone else out there could learn from my bonehead mistake, it's better to post. Looks like when I was taking apart the clutch, I didn't notice just how deep that clutch boss really is. Turns out, I had nine friction plates in. The last two were grubby and worn down and didn't catch my eye, so they ended up staying in. No wonder that thing was perma-engaged. This is so embarrassing. I'm lucky I didn't manage to break anything or kill myself.

On the plus side, no sign of strain on the clutch boss. And now I sheepishly hang my head and twiddle my thumbs till my new gasket/bolts show up.

aaaarrrrggghhhhh.

 

THANKS!
Glad you shared . . . you are not the first one (or the last) here that has done something in the 'bonehead' arena.

We learn from each other and good communication (integrity).

 

i don't think any of my spares will work

 

Glad WT found the problem.

@Polock: School me...what is happening when the bike shifts in all gears except neutral on these bikes? It doesn't make sense to me based on how the forks move. I ask because you replied about it. Thanks.

Gary H.

 

rocs, are we talking about my post here?
http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/no-neutral.65418/#post-462774
in neutral is the only place that slots and dogs are not engaged. so if you put the shift roller in the neutral indent of the drum, that's the only neutral there should be. if that's not out of gear, there's problems. maybe a loose cam on the drum, maybe something stuck in the drum groove that moves the forks, a bent fork, a bad/missing clip ring on the gear cluster shaft.
could something cause the drum to over shoot neutral and go right to second? if the drum moves the forks i guess the forks could move the drum?

 

Sorry William.

@Polock: yes, i posted in the wrong thread...again. Thanks for the explanation. Interesting.

Gary H.

 

Got my new gasket and bolts and got the bike back together. After letting the sealant set on the gasket, took it out for a brief ride last night. It went great! She's riding smoothly and shifting well. Gobs of power too. I was just taking a few laps around the block in my local neighborhood so I didn't get to really open up, but this bike is riding like new. Smooth shifts, great power delivery, no clutch slipping, and it no longer beats on my foot between shifts. Now I'm just waiting for nice weather, it's been in short supply here lately (@Polock knows what I'm talking about) to work it out a bit more. I don't want to just hop on and ride it 30 miles one way to work, so I'm building up to that with rides where if I did overlook something and it clunks to a halt on the side of the road, I won't be late for work. That being said, I'm pretty confident at this point.

Big takeaways for me are making sure everything old comes out when changing out plates and making sure that everything is torqued to spec. Thanks for everyone's help!

 

we'll have to go for a ride sometime