battery and other quastions

why is it a biig no no to jump your battery off a car,what if your bike battery is dead and you need to do some work on the bike,my friend has a kawasaki kz750 81 and he is not geting any spark on 1 and 4 cyl and he does on 2and3 with the car huckt up because the bike battery is old and dead we got 10 v at the coils but no spark we tryed to swich a coil but it still did not work,how do you test a coil it its good or bad do you ohm it out please does any one have any answers let me know and im sorry if i ofended any one buy asking about another bike than maxim or seca we bin working on this bike and need help please write with any info ivan.

 

The car system puts out too much power and can damage the bikes systems. If you need to jump a bike do it with a car battery that is out of the car i.e., not hooked up to the cars charging system. Make sure the bikes ignition is off when you connect the battery.

Sswap the coils around. If 1 and 4 then go and 2 and 3 stop sparking the coil is faulty. If 1 and 4 still do not spark the fault is elsewhere.

Testing with a multi meter should tell you if the coils are within spec.

 

The Bike has NOT changed.

Automotive alternators and charging systems have improved a great deal.

The Maximum current that the Voltage Regulator is designed to handle is 15 amps.

Most automotive alternators designed to supply current to "Fully Loaded" anythings ... from Sub-Compacts to Huge SUV's put-out more than that at idle.

Hooking-up an old XJ-Bike and subjecting it to a High-amp load overworks the Regulator and may burn-out the connection-point wiring to Diodes and the rectifier. Things melt and are ruined.

Worst case: Flames.

 

Also the TCI unit can be damaged. Bike no go then!

 

thank you for fast reply do you have any answers for the other quastins

 

cant you repalce the tci if you damage it whay would the bike be no good

 

you can use a car battery just don't start the car
take all the spark plugs out, one at a time ground the plugs to the engine
if 2 and 3 don't spark try a plug that does spark on those wires
if thats no good swap the primary coil wires and 2 and 3 should spark

 

I can't say about the Seca, but I jump start motorcycles regularly. Bike and car off, hook it up, try to start the bike. If the battery is too low, start the car but let it idle, wait a few minutes, turn off the car and try again.

I realize the seca has a low output alternator, but with the key off, it should be OK.

Then again, I am used to BMW bikes.

Jim 8)

 

I can say with authority that you can use a car to jump a bike. Yes newer vehicles have newer internals and can regulate the voltage far more efficiently than the days of yor, but they are not going to fry a bike if you use common sense. I've posted the process before but I will do so again here for everyone to have a look. Remember, the vehicle needing a jump will pull a very heavy load from the supplying vehicle so if your cables are cheap/junk/corroded, you may be asking for a hurtz doughnut. Do not attempt a jump with less than sound equipment or corroded battery posts.
#1. Ensure that both vehicles are not around any puddled fuel or other flammable material, sparks can and do occur.
#2. Using a good pair of jumper cables, connect the clamps to the dead battery, taking care to maintain clamp isolation on both ends (another little pearl of knowledge hard won).
#3. Make sure the jumping vehicle is off. You do not want a massive voltage spike introduced into the electrical system. As Rick and Kiwi pointed out, things can and do get crispy when this happens.
#4. Attach the Positive/Red cable clamp to the post of the vehicle with the good battery.
#5. Attach the Negative/Black cable clamp to any good exposed metal chassis part you can reach safely that will not have the cable hanging in the fan blades. This is because as you make the attachment to ground, a spark will be generated and you don't want that near the battery. Batteries will outgas when they are charging and discharging. Ever hear of the Hindenburg? Hydrogen gas folks, it doesn't play nice with sparks. Another point is that you don't hook up the charged/charging battery to a dead battery for the same reasons. There is a greater hazard of this gas around a discharged battery, so go the extra bit and ground the cable to the metal of the car or motor.
#6. At this point you can try to start the dead battery vehicle. If there isn't enough in the battery at this point, read on.
#7. Turn off the dead battery vehicle and then start the good battery vehicle.
#8. Try the dead battery vehicle again. This should do the trick if the battery in question has any possible chance of working.
#9. Turn off the good battery vehicle
#10. Remove the negative cable clamp, then the positive clamp.
#11. Remove the cables from the bad battery vehicle.
#12. Get thee to the nearest load tester and check out if the battery will hold a charge anymore. Have the alternator output checked out as well. If you have too much voltage, the battery may be boiling out. If too little, the battery cannot be sustained. If the battery electrolyte level is low, it will dramatically effect the capacity and longevity of the battery. Keep the cells properly serviced with distilled water. Do not use tap water, it will shorten the lifespan of the battery as the mineral content will sulphadate the plates rapidly.
Let's dispell this "too" much current myth. True, you don't want too much current but the load will only pull as much current as it needs. Take a regular house hold light bulb. 60 watts or so, doesn't matter. You screw it into a socket. This socket is fed with a 15 Amp capacity line. You turn the light on and it draws maybe a half an amp or so (P or watts/E or voltage, in this case, 60 watts/110 volts=.54 amps). If your bulb could suck more current out, it would up to the maximum of the supply line and then things get crispy after that. Again, the system will only pull as much current as it needs.
Amen.

 

Thank you Robert!

Furthermore, there are (old wives tales!) that jumping from a car will fry the voltage regulator, TCI etc. When jumping you are connecting battery to battery - these components don't carry whatever current is transferred.*

The battery technology on the motorcycle is the same as that used in the car. Both are nominally 13.8 volts. Both charge in the 14~14.5 volt range. Only difference is the CAPACITY. Only reason you don't use a car battery on the motorcycle is space. Reason you don't use motorcycle battery on the car is it doesn't have enough capacity to start that big engine.

*Known by the state of California to cause cancer. Causes male pattern baldness in a small percentage of cases. May cause certain sexual side effects. Not to be used by pregnant women, women who may become pregnant or women who are nursing. Consult your mechanic if you experience any of the following symptoms: Flooding, Backfire, Electrical Issues or Poor shifting.

 

thank you for your time and info to check the coils i ohm tham out or how do i test tham

 

Primary resistance (connector plugs) should be about 2.3 ohms +/- .5 ohms. Secondary resistance (positive plug wire to cap on end of ignition wire) should read about 8 to 10k ohms (I might be wrong on this last tolerance, help me out brothers). Remember to read this with the cap in place on the wire. If you don't happen to read anything on the one line, switch to the other plug wire on the connector (there are two, one of them will be the one you need).

 

Here's a theory question - can you hook up a weak/shot battery to a mains 12v charger and work away happily at diagnosing a difficult-to-start bike ?

Not that I'd ever be working on a bike with a battery that isn't holding a charge...

 

Old yes wife no. 8O

 

When charging a pb acid battery explosive gasses are given off.
The charging system is also working on the bike.
Probably not a good idea.
Use jumper leads and hook up a car battery.
A weak/shot battery is probably the cause of a difficult-to-start bike

 

Spiking the TCI is real. You can damage a component, it is the 12 volt Zener Diode in the TCI that can fail if you get it wrong. The 12 volt Zener Diode can be replaced though.

Not saying too much current but a sudden spike when done wrong. Not saying other things are affected, just that one tiny bit (if you are lucky, other components might be damaged too).

Key of bike OFF, car not running, connect battery. Better to not start car, on a well charged car battery there should be no need to, which removes all risk.

Once everything is connected properly there is no problem, the bike will take what current it needs.

Better safe than sorry is my theory. I would hate to see a noob damage their bike and having a seperate battery hooked up avoids spikes and charging issues.

My 2 cents.

 

He is talking about a Kawazaki 750, those readings might be different.

 

Having read everything about car batteries starting bikes... can I please hijack this thread and ask if it's possible to use a car battery permanently instead of a bike battery? As I run an xj700 based trike, I have a rather large space where the single back wheel used to sit... I could easily fit a car battery in there, but what other changes would I need to make... heaver cables etc? Would the XJ alternator be capable of charging a car battery?

Cheers

Sam

 

I've seen car batteries on motorcycles. Most of 'em looked pretty ridiculous; either roped or taped-on to the back of the seat or a sport rack.

If you have the space and can make it fit without getting wet or falling over ... why not?

Some lawn tractors use Car battery's. They have less of a charging system than our bikes.
.

 

Yep, can do.

Only reason we have little tiny batteries is space and weight.

Might want to go just a bit heavier on the battery cables due to the extra length.