Oil in the starter 1981 XJ650

No crank condition. Pulled the starter and it had oil in it. Had it cleaned up and it cranks perfectly. My rebuilder says there is no seal in the starter to go bad and the starter is located on the top of the crankcase. He mentioned the possibility of a clogged breather pressurizing the crankcase forcing the oil into the starter. The outside of the starter is clean as well as is the entire engine. I purchased this bike new and know the engine has never been apart. Thoughts??

 

That makes sence to me ( I mean about the breather)
Another possibility was the crankcase oil " over filled " at some point?
If so I would think extra oil could be splashed up into the started... Likely a combination of both conditions,
Anymore ideas?

 

was oil in reduction housing or armeture area or both?
starters get old
pull the breather hose off and check it, open your oil filler cap see if you have any blow back should be suction if hose is clear

there is an oring on the starter near the gear item 4
and another one inside the gear reduction assembly item 12 where the plate sits could be "oil was the lube that was in the gear assembly
washer #8 could be worn as well as the bronze bearing in plate item 7
see starter rebulid link
http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/replacing-your-starter-motor-brushes-w-pics.45727/
hose view
http://www.yamahapartsnation.com/oemparts/a/yam/5004201ff8700209bc786d65/intake

starter
http://www.yamahapartsnation.com/oemparts/a/yam/5004201ff8700209bc786d65/intake

another thought is your rings are worn causing pressure in the crank

 

Thanks for the direction XJ550H. Oil was in the armature and brush area. Can't say about the reduction gear. This happened before. Maybe four years, 1000 miles and 100 starts ago. I'll follow your suggestion. My bike is 200 miles away but I'm making the drive tomorrow and will test the bike this week. I'm checking to see if I have the proper compression hose adapter as I was already planning to test compression. I'm having an intermittent engine issue now as well but when it is running right the power seems just like new. The bike tests in '81 showed 0-60 mph times of around 4.4 seconds. It is still that quick.

 

it seems odd with oil only in armature area and not in the gear reduction unit could be it was just overlooked as grease
it could be you have a tiny oil leak that lands on the starter and goes into it
1000 miles in 4 years it would be hard to tell your loosing oil

 

I would like to point out that a PO has been confirmed to have filled the crankcase of a different engine by "pulling the valve cover off and pouring oil in until it runs over the top."
I would suspect that someone lubricated the starter in a similar fashion before I'd believe that the oil got in there via a bad seal.

 

so you think someone oiled the starter or reduction gears before reassembly, from when it was taken apart before?

 

Stranger things have happened, who knows.

 

Guys, I'm the only one who has touched this bike since taking delivery in 1981. It was never overfilled with oil or had oil added anywhere except thru the oil fill. The rebuilder who did the starter is a consummate pro who has done a lot of work for me for over 35 years. He is a true electrical magician. Also, I was standing next to him when he went thru the starter and there was no oil added. I had hoped that my problem was one that happen occasionally on this engine and someone had figured out a fix. It is sounding like this may be one of those weird situations that is going to take some head scratching. I'll post next week what I find when I work on the bike this weekend. Thanks for your ideas. I appreciate it.

 

Seems to me that the crankcase vent is lower than the starter and for the starter to fill up with oil the engine would need to be overfilled or the carbs leaked so bad the crankcase filled up with gas to get the oil level that high to enter the starter. But if you say this did not happen I beleive you. Starters filling up with oil is not the normal thing that happens.
We will have to wait and see what you find this weekend

 

this will be interesting. in my auto experiance this would happen with the starter with an oil leak dripping on starter, but there would be signs of the oil leak
more speculation it could be the venturi effect

 

Most cars have the starter in the bottom which are prone to get oil in them with a rear main seal leak.
This starter is on top of the engine as you well know. Oil dripping on the starter can't happen , so how the heck does it get up there is a mystery to me without the reduction gears swimming in oil first then into the starter body.

 

There is an oil seal in the gear reduction assembly on the output shaft. The seal is usually supplied along with a bearing in the rebuild kits. If the seal was defective, wouldn't it allow oil to make its way into the starter, where it would eventually seep to the lowest point and into the starter? The end plate might slow it down, but it was not intended to be an oil tight seal. Put the bike on the side stand, and any oil that passed the seal would drain towards the brushes. The O-rings that were intended to keep water and dirt out would effectively seal any oil in.

 

That is possible. Still a weird thing to have happen though. In any case the starter needs cleaned and rebuilt (may as well since it's out, and push starting gets annoying).

 

its a mystery to all of us. boat doc is going to check his breather tube to see if it is clogged.
leaking oil can be blown back from motor and land on starter slim chance for large qty.
i'm thinking internal pressure more likely.the starter would have to have a lot of worn parts for it seep in through the nose. parts do wear after 30+ years

 

I was able to spend a lot of up close and personal time with the bike on Friday. Oil level is correct with about 3/16" air bubble showing at the top of the sight glass. Air box was clean (mice like the garage), no oil residue in it and the air cleaner passed quite a bit of light when a flash light was used to examine it. The vent tube was disconnected at the air box and the tube was dry. I blew into the tube and it would not allow air flow with the oil fill cap in place but flowed freely when the cap was removed. I carefully examined the 90 degree elbow that connects the vent tube to the air box and it is unobstructed. The area around the starter is free of oil. The only leak on the engine is the mechanical tach drive where the cable attaches to the engine. It is regularly wiped clean.

A compression check was not performed as the correct hose for the spark plug hole was not available. Next trip I'll check it with a different style of tester that I believe will just barely fit in plug holes 2 and 3. The engine does start quickly with excellent power and there is no oil consumption so my feeling is a compression test will confirm pressures are within specs.

An engine running issue of an intermittent nature prevented checking for vacuum at the oil fill with the engine running. It was running ragged and I forgot to make this check. I'll start another thread on this problem. I appreciate your thoughts and the time spent in offering them.

 

the oil from the tach leak flows all around the motor due to air flow when mine was leaking I thought I had leaks all around the valve cover

 

I would check and see what condition the reduction gear lubricant is in. If some hack had it apart and used the wrong grease it may have broken down and liquified, then worked its way into the motor. That's one possibility. It may also be a result of blow-by gas building up in the engine and forcing oil into that area. I rebuilt my 1981 XJ650H starter about eight years ago and I vaguely recall a front shaft seal coming with the kit. That seal would be in the reduction gear section.

 

I saw a starter rebuild kit on amazon had the orings, bushings/bearings as well the brushes I will see if i can find it again