Start Button Just Clicks

Starting a thread for him. See quote below.

 

Check the following:
Battery voltage.
Voltage at the large terminals of the starter solenoid with the starter button pressed.
Voltage between the starter positive wire (hooks to the post on the starter) and the starter case.

In all likelyhood the problem is with the starter. Worn brushes will prevent the starter from turning.
Since the solenoid clicks we can rule out the ignition safety circuit as the cause of your no-start condition.

 

Thanks!!!

Well I jumped the starter solenoid and the engine cranks just fine. What I don't have is 12v coming from the start button at the hand control. All I have is .4v which is why I asked about the oil level switch. It took me a while to realize what all needed to be in place before this thing would start so evidently I am still missing a piece to the puzzle.

 

OK. there are three screws along the underside of the right switchgear. Open it up and clean the contacts at the switch. Be careful not to lose the spring or any of the other tiny parts in there.

As a test for the solenoid you can connect 12v to the smaller positive post on the solenoid to see if it works. If the problem is still there then the issue is pited or corroded solenoid contacts. The easy solution is to fit a new solenoid.

 

You are referring to the start button on the hand control I assume?

 

Yes. That is the only start button you should have if the machine is all-stock.

 

Ok, I will check it tomorrow. Thanks for the help and I will let you know what I find.

 

Couldn't find an XJ700X wiring diagram, but I can say that in the older XJs, it's the ground for the solenoid that's switched by the starter button, not the 12V.

If your 700 is the same, then k-moe's test would require you to jump 12V to the positive side of the solenoid AND then hit the starter button to see if it cranks. If that does result in cranking, it would tell you that A) your solenoid is OK, B) your starter switch is OK and C) you have a problem in the safety or ignition circuits (side stand relay/switch, neutral switch, kill switch, key switch, etc).

 

I have the diagram on word file. Who ever wants a copy start a conversation with me and I will email it to you
36 is button 38 is starter cut off relay 40 solenoid

 

Well, that's enough information in the thumbnail to confirm that the basic circuit is the same.

Normally, you should be measuring 12V (relative to chassis ground) at the Blue/White wire at the the starter switch cluster when the key is on, the Start/Run switch is set to Run, and the bike is in neutral. If you do have 12V there (which I think you already said you didn't), then the problem would be a bad solenoid, bad ground for the start switch, or a bad start switch.

If you don't have 12V at the start switch, then the next place to check is at the Blue/White wire at the solenoid. 12V there means that your safety circuit is disabling the starter for some reason, or that the stater cutout relay itself is bad.

 

In the picture of the control switch, the black wire between the red and blue wire goes to the relay. At key on and in the run position there is battery voltage at 3 wires at that switch. When I push start the relay only clicks. I went to the relay and used my meter to locate the wire from the switch. .2 ohms from switch to relay which tells me the wire is good. I put battery voltage to the starter solenoid at the battery and the engine cranks no problem. I can't seem to figure out what I'm missing

 

So, after re-reading your post SQLGuy, I do have 12v at the blue/white wire at the switch.

 

Thanks for your help by providing this schematic!

 

You have 12V at the Blue/White at the switch, but when you press it some relay is clicking... the only relay (besides the solenoid) that's maybe supposed to click when you press the starter button is the headlight cutout relay.

If it's the solenoid that's clicking, then you have a bad solenoid.

 

disconnect the solenoid connector. with a jumper wire connect one side to your + battery (charger if you have one ) redwire and the other side to - negitive blue white wire, i use a fused jumper wire. if the starter spins solenoid is good.
next test
with key on
now move to the mating connector
connect meter or test light to positive on battery, connect the other meter probe to the blue white wire press starter button .
light should light or meter shows 12 volts.
if not its time to look at the starter cut off relay .
the connector to starter cut off relay
with key on bike in neutral you should have (38) 12 volts at the r/w red/ white wire.
you should also have 12 volts to one of the the blue/white wires
when connector is connected to starter cut off relay you should have 12 volts to both blue white wires.
if not your relay is not closing or the contacts inside have a problem

 

The relay that is clicking is the one in the picture I posted with the meter lead stuck in the connector. When I switch from off to run, then push start it clicks but the solenoid does nothing.

 

Can't tell from the low-res schematic which relay that is. My guess would be that it's the headlight relay. I still think you have a bad solenoid.

If you measure voltage across the coil of the solenoid (between the Red and Blue/White connections), you should read 0V when not pressing the start button, and 12V when pressing it. If that's the case, then that would be more evidence that the solenoid is bad.

 

I will check it when I get home. Thank for your help and I will let you know what I find.

 

Can this be checked with an ohmmeter? I'm uncertain about the operation of this as I think I read it is ground side controlled. Is that correct?

 

Ok....I have battery voltage on red/white wire at the start button with key on. No voltage at blue/white wire. Push the button and still no voltage on blue/white wire at start button. Clutch lever pulled in, kick stand down, in neutral (neutral light is on) I am so confused!

 

yes you can check the small nuts with an ohm meter, i have my reading some where i will post it.
ground side controlled means that the starter button make the connection to ground as opposed to being on the battery side.

clean those connectors
with wires disconnected if you put your ohm meter to the big nuts then jump the small nuts to the battery you should see a reading, does not matter which lead you jump from the battery to the small nuts the solenoid has no polarity.

nuts should be 3.6 ohms

 

Ok. I disconnected to solenoid and applied battery voltage to the blue/white wire on the small terminal. Verified 13.04 volts on that wire. Checked across the two large terminals (26.8Mohms)then individually to ground and only on 1 terminal did it show any reading of 4.3 ohms. Appears you were correct in your assessment.

 

Voltmeter, not Ohm meter. Negative probe to Blue/White, positive to Red.

Yes, it is is ground-side controlled.

 

I applied voltage to both small terminals again. 1 at a time of course. The one with the b/w wire only produced 1.4 volts on 1 large terminal. The other unused small terminal provided source voltage to 1 large terminal only.

 

Red/Yellow and Blue/Black in the right control switch assembly are for the head light. The head light should come on when the key is turned on, and go off when the start button is depressed. You do not have a head light relay and unless the head light is not working correctly you should not be concerned with those wires at the moment.

Blue/White wire should be at 12V until the start button is depressed, which takes that point to ground and energizes the solenoid. If the Blue/White wire is not at 12v either a problem exists with one of the components or the safety circuit is deployed.

Normally true, but be careful here as there is a jumper terminal on the 700 solenoids and 12V is already present on one terminal if the battery is connected to the large nut.

 

Can anyone tell me where the starter cutoff relay may be located? I have only located 1 relay which I believe we have determined is for the headlight

 

Ok. Headlight is working correctly. Low beam and high beam works and cuts off when start button is pushed in

 

Not sure where the starter cutoff relay is in your bike, but it's the one controlling whether there is continuity between the Blue/White coming at the solenoid and the Blue/White at the Start button.

I just wanted to make sure you understand how the solenoid operates. You're doing a lot of checks that seem a bit random.

A solenoid (at least, the ones used in these bikes) is just a big relay. When 12V is applied across the two small terminals, the solenoid closes, making contact across the two large terminals. That's all there is to it.

Applying power to the small terminals is where the key switch, fuse box, safety circuit, and Start button come in. The large terminals are just a heavy wire from the battery and a heavy wire to the starter, to carry 12V high current to the starter.

What we've been trying to figure out is whether you're getting 12V across the small terminals when pressing the Start button. I don't think you've actually made that test yet. One more time, what it involves is:

1. Everything hooked up normally
2. Voltmeter connected with negative probe to Blue/White small terminal at solenoid and positive probe to Red small terminal at solenoid
3. Key on, bike in Neutral
4. Press the Start button - meter should read 12V - if it does, then the solenoid is bad; if it doesn't, then we can start further checking into the safety circuit, etc

 

Well I went back and reread some of these posts. The ground side controlled triggered something in my head and as it turns out the cable to the starter and the positive cable from the battery were backwards on the solenoid. I don't know what made me look at that but I switched the cables and guess what happened? Yup. Start button works! This is what happens when you buy a basket case and don't know what you're doing!

 

Thank all you guys who provided suggestions and insight into this project. I will surely be back with more questions no doubt!

 

I told you I would have another question. ...what is this fitting between the carbs? There is another one between the other 2. I'm thinking they were connected to the air box which is no longer part of the bike. They put individual air filters on each carb.

 

http://www.xjbikes.com/forums/threads/the-ultimate-relay-switch-sensor-and-diodes-guide.27543/

from above link also tells how to test and contains electrical info needed for testing coils and pickups
XJ700 and XJ750-X models:

Flasher: combined with ignition cut-off relay.
Flasher canceller: combined with ignition cut-off relay.
Starter motor solenoid/relay: attached to and centrally behind the battery box.
Starter/Ignition cut-off relay (no color): behind gas tank on frame tube cross-brace.
Sidestand (kickstand) relay (blue): under left side cover, above regulator.
Headlight relay (yellow): not used.
Main fuseholder: behind frame crossbar, behind the battery.
Diode block: under left side cover, above regulator.
Neutral switch: in a hole in the bottom of the crankcase, just "outside" of the oil pan, on the bottom of the engine, up inside a recessed "well".
Thermo unit: screws into the thermostat housing.
Thermoswitch: screws into the thermostat housing.

 

that fitting (pipe) is how gas gets from one carb to the next