Lifters play musical chairs - am I screwed?

So... I walk outside to check on my lifters today - which I had in order on a piece of paper - nice and neat. I had labeled them on the paper they were sitting on, and I was relying them on sitting still to keep their order to put back in the motor.

Well... looks like someone bumped the table or something, because they were all in a pile! 8O I did say quite a few choice words too...

Thankfully, none of the pads were knocked out, so I could be pretty certain of about where half of them went from my notes. However, the other half (10 lifters) were a guessing game! :cry: This was because the pads for this half were all pretty similar sizes.

If I mix/match lifters - am I going to screw up the head or the camshaft faces? It looks like (statistically), it is VERY likely that not all of the lifters are going to go back in their original positions.

Since my motor has 34,000 miles on it, they already have a wear pattern on them. I remember hearing somewhere that you have to replace lifters and cams together because they wear together. Is this true in my case?

I really want to know the worst case scenario - and what you guys think will happen really... I am really looking for some good news, because this would be an awesome bike, and I only got to ride it for 5 minutes!

Keep in mind that valve clearances are not an issue, because I have 40 pads to play with now, so I can just swap pads until it works.

 

I used egg cartons to keep my valve parts together, but that's hind sight for you now.
Yes, I've heard that mixing them up can cause problems.
Yes, they wear together and should be kept together.
What if they get mixed up, possibly shorten the life of the parts in question.
How much shorter, don't know.
I think it's too late to lose sleep over, just do the best you can at putting the parts back in the correct place and go from there. If you test fit the "unkown" and find any binding taking place, try another one in it's place.
Sorry, that's the best way that I can think of dealing with the situation.
Goodluck

 

You really are supposed to break in a cam with its lifters, following a certain process, so they bed in together. Not sure about bike engines but in a car it's something like run it for 20 minutes at 2000 rpm without a break when you first start it up. I think you do run the risk of accelerated wear on both at this point.
But then if you weigh the situation - you could go and spend significant $$ on a cam and lifters now, or put it back together and spend the same $$ later. The only thing is, you don't know how much later. But it could give you some time to save up, and who knows? they could last quite a while.
You may even get lucky and assemble them in the right order.
My two cents, for what they're worth.
Jim

 

I would not worry about replacing the cam, it will be fine. Replacement of the unknown shim buckets would be advisable. Otherwise you should be just fine. The shims don't matter. The bit of breaking in a cam with new lifters is meant for a hydraulic cam and lifters, not the mechanical shim bucket followers we have on our machines. The buckets will be just fine if you switch bores but they should be miked (micrometered) to ensure a proper fit for each bore. Because the only wear part against the cam is the shims, that is a non-issue. The buckets ride inside the head in a bore topping the valve stem. The buckets can be purchased should they exibit any signs of wear (galling, scoring, etc...). I would re-use them in a heartbeat (after measuring for fit of course). There should be a spec for the bucket to head clearance. If it matches, your in there. Get yourself a micrometer (on sale now at Harbor Freight, 6" digital SAE/Metric for $17 USD) and have at. Good luck buddy!

 

Robert, I apologize, but I am not sure I follow all of your post. Since I have the X, my pads are UNDER the lifter. So the wear between the cam and the lifter is actually on the face of the lifter. The cam does not directly hit the shim (pad).

Does this change your post? I hope not! Thanks for your guys help by the way!

 

Richard,,You got mail..

 

I'm sorry Rich, I'm not familiar with your X. I am only familiar with the earlier XJ systems. The bucket following the cam would necessitate the replacement of the bucket if the original position has been lost because the bucket is the wear item (lousy design in my opinion). Keep in mind that the cam lobe, shim bucket, and the shims are all hardened steel and will machine themselves to match eachother over time. This does create the "matched" finish for each of them. You loose the order, you gotta buy new buckets (unless they are in perfect condition as mentioned before). I still would try the micrometer approach and try to match them back up. This may be an excercise in futility but it's worth a shot. Given you've 34K on the clock, you might be able to get away with measuring the ID of the bore and the OD of the buckets and figuring out which goes where by subtracting the clearance spec and matching the best matches. You may find that all of the buckets fall within 0.001' or better given the quality of the construction of our motors. A new bucket may not buy you any improvement then. It is conceivable that you could have the heads of the buckets reground and reuse them with thicker new shims. Just a thought. I just resurfaced a cam that was buggered 0.002' using sandpaper and a lathe, starting with 180 grit and finishing with 800 grit (yes, the bearing surface was hardened but it worked, gotta watch the heat built up, don't ride on it too long, it will screw up the temper). Saved myself $175 USD. Not bad but if you don't have a lathe, you could chuck up the buckets in a large drill or make a chuck that will hold the larger bucket in a hand held heavy duty drill and resurface them yourself (a little polishing is all you really need). Hope this provides a ray of sunshine. Peace.

 

I really appreciate the replies...

I think I am going to put it together and try it. If it doesn't work, then I am in the exact same position that I am in now - buy a new head.

It seems like this would be necessary because the lifters are "worn" into the head now too. The lifters are in great shape really, although they have "rings" on them, I cannot feel the grooves with my finger or scratching something across the surface. So, it must be grooves on a micro-scale. My personal opinion after listening to you guys is that there probably will be some EXTRA wear from moving the lifters around, but not enough to cause major problems.

I have a micrometer, but I need to get an Inner Diameter thingy (don't know what this is called - but I have used one) to be used in conjunction with the micrometer.

Anyways, I feel a lot better after talking to you guys, and I appreciate that very much.