Bike just....died

Im sure this has been said time and time and time and time again. Took the bike out for a ride, came to a stop light, and it died. Looked around the forums and threads and have an idea as to what may be going on, but wanted some thoughts from you all before I called the shop that I just picked it up from... (feel free to link me to a thread thats already discussed an identical issue - I may have missed it)

sorry this is going to be long. want to give as much detail as possible. gonna try to break this out as much as possible.

Bike was running fantastic. fantastic enough to impress the mechanics who have worked on older bikes for 30+ years. I took it out for a 30-45 minute ride, a 15 minute ride to two stores, and last night for about a 30 minute ride again at dusk. Temperature was about mid-50s and cloudy here in Northern VA. About a mile and half from home at the bottom of the final two hills, i came to a stop light. One item i noticed before it died is that the turn signal did not flash, but stayed illuminated. This is what is leading me to thinking its an electrical or charging problem of some sort. It was at about 1500ish RPM while i had the clutch in, downshifting, and slowing for the red light. Once i stopped, almost simultaneously, the motor died. Lights stayed on, but motor died. Hit the kill switch, turned the key to off, and tried to start again right away, and nothing. the bike didnt even make a noise.

Pulled over to the side of the road, and sat for a couple minutes. Tried to restart and all i got was about 2 seconds of trying to turn over, the oil light illuminating, and the entire warning light set up dimming out while i pressed the start button until the lights stopped illuminating when i pressed the start button. Then once again, the bike wouldnt make a sound at all. Started pushing the bike up the hill and tried again about a quarter mile later at the top of the hill. Turned the choke on about half way and same thing again. 2 seconds of trying to turn over, the oil light illuminating, and the entire warning light set up dimming out while i pressed the start button until the lights stopped illuminating when i pressed the start button. Then a silent bike. Pushed the bike about another half mile, about 20 minutes, and tried again. Same thing, but longer. About 4 seconds of trying to turn over, the oil light illuminating, and the entire warning light set up dimming out while i pressed the start button until the lights stopped illuminating when i pressed the start button. Heard a faint clicking noise (not sure if it was a relay or the starter). Sat still for about 15 minutes, turned the choke on all the way, and the thing started right up again. Turned it all off, and sat for a about 5 minutes to catch my breath (never realized how heavy this thing is). Put the helmet back on, and started it up with out incident at all. Road it home about the last quarter mile.

Let it cool for about an hour, drained the float bowls thinking i may have flooded it (why, I cant really give a good reason...), turned the petcock to PRI for some free flow fuel, and tried to start. Plenty of juice to turn the lights on Never got it to start before I was practically falling asleep. And now I am here.

Any thoughts? Ive seen this as possible issues/items of discussion for the shop on the other threads:

• Carb sync issues
• fuse box (i need to check, but i think its an aftermarket with the blade fuses)
• valve clearances
• vapor lock????
• vacuum line collapsing
• battery not recharging for whatever reason

Thanks for getting to the end of this. I sincerely appreciate all the help and tips ive gotten in the last week or so. Starting to really feel at home here.

 

When you are saying it wouldn't start, please clarify if it was cranking over but not starting, or not cranking at all. This sounds like an electrical issue with your kill switch or ignition switch.

 

did you try bump starting it ?
check battery voltage and fluid level fill with distilled water only, charge battery.
check your battery and charging system
this link has the info you need to test battery and charging system
The Ultimate Relay, Switch, Sensor, and Diodes Guide.
for the vac line put petcock on prime.
test petcock by disconnecting fuel and vac line then apply vac to vac port on petcock fuel should flow , you can suck on the line and petcock should flow
replace vac line just because you doubt its quality 4 mm USE VAC LINE ONLY chacal sells it here if your local shops do not have it.

Have you checked your valve clearances?
this is how
AIRHEAD VALVE ADJUSTMENT with Pics

buy KD tools 2274 metric feeler gauges any parts store can order them with the part number

check back then we can get into ohming out your ignition system

 

Sounds like your charging system isn't charging your battery

 

I agree with Hogfiddles. This is definitely an electrical issue. I would check to make sure all your wire connections are buttoned up. You never know if something came loose when the other mechanics worked on it. Definitely follow the wires coming out of the alternator to make sure there was a solid connection.

My question about this is would a bad regulator also do this?

 

Could be--
A bad regulator
A bad tci
A bad pickup
A bad fuse
A bad wire
A bad switch
Etc......

 

Make sure the earth ground has a good connection to the frame (gently remove paint if necessary ).

Gary H.

 

Sorry. It would start to crank, then it was eventually the clicking noise of a relay i think... then nothing. no cranking, and no clicking.

 

Thanks.

Its a brand new battery as of a week ago.
Charging is system was repaired...Kinda. More on that in a second.

Pet cock is new, and gas does flow on prime.

Valve clearance were *supposedly* just checked and verified to be correct by the shop. Willing to trust the shop since they have a proven track record with other XJs, japanese bikes, and older bikes in general.

About the charging system. Everything was checked by the shop. The Regulator - Rectifier was replaced, but from an older xj550 that had been used for parts for....years. Shop suggested replacing this as it is an easy, *fairly* inexpensive swap, that is plug and play.

 

Thats my gut feeling as well. The shop seems to think that is the path as well. See above post.

 

I wouldnt even know where to begin with electrical connections. Nuts, bolts, combustion, fuel flow, etc. are fairly easy for me to understand a work with... electrical is a whole 'nother monster. any suggestions?

 

(regulator = regulator rectifier, correct?)
TCI was replaced with a used (since a new one is impossible to find).
pickup was *supposedly checked*
fuse box is new, with no blown fuses.

Process of reasonable elimination....I think im gonna replace this regulator rectifier. Shop seems to think its a bad one, got to hot, and wasnt working properly.

 

Can you explain a little more? Earth ground connection?

 

Perhaps the alternator brushes are bad? That's a fairly easy one to take a peek at.

 

Sorry if Im spamming everyone. I need to figure out how to quote more than one person in a post. I'll work on finding/replacing the regulator rectifier since that seems to be low hanging fruit and report back. any suggestions on where to find one? Ive seen prices range from 35 bucks (Caltric from amazon) to 100 bucks (oem replica, more or less, from a couple different vendors).

Also.... any suggestions for motorcycle roadside service?

 

Forgot to ask about that... figured they would check those during the "repair recharging system" part of the work order. I can check them out if nothing else.

 

It's the bike in your profile pic? a 550? If so, it's just 3 hex bolts (4 or 5mm... can't remember) holding the cover on. The brushes are on the cover, so don't try to pull it too far from the bike. If they're too short, it will affect your charging system. The good news is they're an easy item to replace.

And "repair recharging system" is such a broad statement.

 

It is indeed broad. Going to ask for a more comprehensive list of work done so i can atleast keep track of it.

yes, its a 550. I may be confusing the stator and these brushes now. are they under the "Yamaha" aluminium (i think its aluminium?) cover at the bottom?

 

No, it's the big round cover with no lettering on it. Between the cylinders and the starter, just under the carbs.

 

Thanks. What would indicate "bad"? Im assuming this is the "good" to compare to.

http://ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/prodimages/70-201.jpg

 

There are "wear marks" on them. Or there should be. They shouldn't be less than 11mm in total length, each.

But yes, those are the parts.

 

can you check battery voltage? ,,, charge battery? bump start or jump start? then you can check battery.

or take alt cover off and inspect brushes clean cop.54"]Sorry if Im spamming everyone. I need to figure out how to quote more than one person in a post. I'll work on finding/replacing the regulator rectifier since that seems to be low hanging fruit and report back. any suggestions on where to find one? Ive seen prices range from 35 bucks (Caltric from amazon) to 100 bucks (oem replica, more or less, from a couple different vendors).

Also.... any suggestions for motorcycle roadside service?[/QUOTE]
AAA a has motorcycle/rv coverage
the ground wire from battery(I am assuming you have a 550) goes to the motor and then to the frame under the battery remove battery and the 2 connections and clean them.
new batterys can fail.
regulators do get hot.
testing things with a meter is easy
picking low hanging fruit gets expensive look at the brushes first.
remove left front foot peg, remove shifter lever mark its position, remove shifter cover, then remove alternator cover look at the 2 brushes and measure them there is a wear mark on them.
started a conversation with you

 

clean the copper rings with an eraser while your in there

do you own a multi meter if not get one my spare meter is from walmart has a temp probe built in
there is a thread on using meters in the diy forums

 

if you can remove the regulator connector you can test the alternator

 

Should be a separate ground from the engine to the frame (a connection on the left side under the air box). I relocated mine for a better connection.


Gary H.

 

mine connects under the battery nice location you posted

follow the ground wire from battery to motor and then up from motor

 

The motor will run with no battery, not just a dead one- with out one connected. A dead battery (bad charging system, etc) will not cause the bike to shut off. That's why I suggested he have a look at the ignition and kill switch circuit.

 

Replaced the ignition switch Friday, and did a quick glance over the wiring. Kill switch was also replaced early on in the project.

I had issues replicate them selves after letting it sit for a few days. Nothing more than the click ok a solenoid and no cranking when trying to start the bike. I let the battery charge over night, drained the float bowls, and tried again... Started right up.

I knew the regulator rectifier was an old one off one of those parts bikes I had.... So i figured I'd replace that to eliminate a possible variable while i was working near the battery. Went to replace it and it looks like the connectors basically soldered themselves together. I was able to get them apart with some major encouragement... but the result of the involuntary soldering is a completely worthless female connection. look at the pictures Ive included...

So now the next step is replacing the female connector... i dont know what caused the involuntary soldering, so i think there is more digging to do. I'm hoping it was just a defunct regulator. I have part #HCP1678 from XJ4ever - but need to ask if he has the female side of it.

Anything besides the alternator to check to see if that was the cause? Also... any tutorials on how to replace the female side? I personally am not 100% comfortable with electric circuits, soldering, etc. Simple connections are easy enough for me though. I may pass this one onto a shopto do...

 

loose connections will cause overheating as well as dirty connections.
also could be because a weak battery was in the bike for to long needing constant/continuously recharging/charging because it never reached proper voltage.

chacal sells connector and contacts and rents the crimping tool. start a conversation with him

 

Couple things:

1. A dead battery itself, won't cause the engine to shut off. ..... BUT- If the charging system is not charging, then you are running only off of the battery, and when the battery is drained, you're bike WILL shut off when the juice gets too low. You won't be able to restart until the battery is sufficiently charged. As long as there is enough charge, the situation starts all over again' no charging system, run on battery til des, recharge battery, etc...... It really kind of masks the real issue.

2. A bad regulator can cause the same thing.

2a. A bad regulator often allow run-away current that will fry things and burn up connections (like you show), blow fuses, etc--- and cause connections to burn apart so the charging doesn't go through to the battery.

2b. A bad regulator can also fail in the opposite way and then won't allow any current to go through, so the bike runs on just the battery til it runs out of juice, and you end up like #1 above.

So, replaced the connections, see what kind of voltage you have/don't have...... Replace regulator next--------

 

Check the Rect/Reg for shorted diodes. XJ550H posted the procedure in an earlier post. If two of the diodes short that will allow excessive current to flow from the battery. Depending on which diodes short, the path to ground could be directly through the diodes or through the stator. However, in either case the main fuse should blow. The exception to that would be too large of a fuse was installed, or excessive resistance in the mating connectors limited the current. Since the connectors melted, the latter may be the most likely.

Very important to get solid connections.

http://www.xj4ever.com/crimping my style.pdf

Per the Yamaha service manual:

 

Thanks hog. More so for my own knowledge/curiousity - why will the bike shut off if the juice gets to low? the simplistic approach would say that gas is getting to the motor - motor is already running - no more power is needed? Unless that is where the spark is coming from? [noob question... i know...]

based on #2 - sounds like the issue was indeed the regulator/rectifier then, failing the the 2a way. The regulator/recitifer wasnt doing any regulating - allowing current to run to that point of connection and creating the burnt connection, and not sending any charge to the battery. I will double check to confirm, but I believe my fuse box was replaced with the same size fuses as the original, just blade style. Ill send get a picture as soon as I can. I hope nothing else got fried as a result of this.

Thanks rooster - I think i may have circumvented the "checking" and went straight to the "replacement". Didnt see any fuses blown, but i dont remember off the top of my head what fuses are in there, or the order they are in.

Thanks for the PDF. curious if you know of any other similar PDF for replacing the female connector? I have a new reg/rec but need to replace the female side. Or does page 4 have pictures of what would slide into the female shell?

 

Below 9.5 volts the TCI (Transistor controled Ignition) box will not fire the coils for spark.
tci takes pulses from the pick up coils, that triggers the TCI which controls the ignition coils firing.

if you look at the plug
side of the connector you will see a cutout where the locking blade of the connector hits < I use a sewing needle eye first to slide into the connector then lift to help depress locking tab, push wire in lift needle ,then pull wire .
bigger connector bigger shim to remove

 

For the same reason your car will die if the alternator isn't charging----- your run on battery til your battery is drained.

Just like:
Cordless drills
Flashlights
Radios
Cellphones
Computers
Etc......
When the batteries are drained, they turn off. Then work fine after recharging, til they are drained again----

 

That's a good thing, but an attempt to know why the connector melted could be beneficial. Therefore, checking the diodes on the melted Rect/Reg assembly may give a clue to the root cause of the failure. And, depending on the findings, it may also add some insight to other components such as the stator that could have been stressed.