abnormal shifting into 1st

I just got my 82 XJ650 about a month ago. I'm still getting used to the feel of riding it, but I've noticed something that seems "off" and I'd like to know if there might actually be a problem, or if I'm just not used to normal bike behavior.

When downshifting into 1st gear it seems to 'catch' a bit harder than between any other gears. even with the clutch squeezed all the way in, soon as I step down on the shifter the bike makes a bit of a lurch as the gear slips into place.

Is that normal? I feel like it should be smoother than that... but, like I said... I'm new to this. I took a motorcycle safety course where they had me riding around on a Honda Nighthawk (the only other bike I've ever ridden) and I don't recall it having the same 'catch' effect.

 

This does not sound like normal gear behavior to me, have you checked the Clutch free play adjustments?

 

Not normal. Adjust the clutch. Use the Knurl that screws into the Clutch Lever Perch. Tighten the slack out of the cable to achieve a complete disengagement of the clutch.

If all the slack is out of the cable and the Knurl is not helpful tightening the cable ... set the Knurl to 3-Turns OUT from completely seated in the Perch.

Loosen the cable at the lower-end, down behind the clutch case. Loosen the 12mm locking nuts and shift the whole cable upward ... toward the handlebars. Make sure that the very end of the cable, at the handlebar end, is firmly seated within the securing point at the end of the Knurl Adjustment. Lock everything down.

With the cable repositioned and tightened, the clutch should only need a minor adjustment for final "Feel and tension" by adjusting the tightness of the cable with the Knurl Adjuster.

It's all in the way you get the slack out of the cable. You want pulling the Clutch Lever to give you as much movement throwing the clutch out ... as you can get!

 

Thanks Rick.

I barely understood what you just said, but hopefully it'll make more sense when I look through the manual n' figure out what a Knurl is.

 

The object screwed into the Clutch Cable Perch. The Cable passes through it. The Knurl has a slot along the side to allow you to remove it for cleaning and cable replacement.

It has a locking collar to prevent vibrations causing it to move and effect cable adjustment.

Remove it. Clean the threads and the threads where it screws into on the Perch. Add a dab of NeverSeize to the threads to lube it up and make adjusting it easy.

I changed the Clutch Cable on my 900, yesterday. I'm going too write it up for the Masses; later on.

 

If you could include some pictures w/ that write-up, that'd be hella awesome.

 

Hey Rick... I tried adjusting the knurl to tighten the tension on the clutch cable... either I didn't do it right, or the problem isn't in the cable...

Anyway, I made a video of my shifting into 1st, to try to demonstrate the issue.

Here's the link -- http://www.videoegg.com/video/bvyToB

 

Hey man, nice bike. Just out of curiosity, what rpm is that thing idling at? Maybe it's just the video, but it sounds a helluva lot higher than my 82 650 idles at.

I'm sure Rick knows more than I do and I'd listen to him, but from what I saw in that video, I'd say the idle is too high and you are witnessing a normal wet clutch. I might be wrong.

Anyway, nice bike!

 

My Kawasaki did that after I used the wrong oil. I switched and then lubed the clutch cable and it seemed better. But first was bad.

 

good advice here
slow down the idle and change the oil, could be you have a brand new clutch in there, so it might fix itself
HONDA nighthawk chain.....slack and slop
YAMAHA maxim shaft.......no slack or slop
apples and oranges
go ride

 

When the Clutch is adjusted right; rpm is not a factor.

You need the whole throw-out on these XJ Clutches. It is not unusual for the adjustment to be complicated by the improper replacement of the Clutch Throw-out Arm, after any work, which might have made removing it convenient or necessary.

If you are not getting enough Clutch throw-out; it might be necessary to reposition the Throw-out Lever a notch or two Counterclockwise on the splines of the Clutch Throw-out ROD.

Remove the Throw-out Lever from the splined end of the Throw-out ROD. Turn the ROD Clockwise until its motion stops upon contact at the clutch.
Maintain contact at the Clutch by holding the ROD fully Clockwise and reposition the Throw-out LEVER back on the spines to where it's new position removes cable slack.

Make the necessary adjustments to all the lower components and adjustment features until you get ZERO Lash at rest ... and complete movement of the ROD Clockwise when the Clutch Lever is pulled.

 

Thanks Rick, that is something to check on mine while I think of it.

 

Thanks!

I try to keep it idling just under 2000 rpm via the choke, since going below that tends to kill the engine and above that it definitely sounds wrong.

Rick: while I'm fairly confident I can do the stuff you mention, I think I need a good diagram or two of what I'm sposed to be looking at.

Is there a diagrams (or perhaps just instructional photos) section on this site? If there isn't, I think I may start taking some closeup pictures n' labeling things for reference.

 

Clutch Adjustment.

Clutch Lever Perch and Cable End Knurl Adjustment shown in the photograph -- with the Protective Dust Boot covering the Knurl Adjustment Feature -- pulled back.

The photo shows the present adjustment of my 750 Max.
With the additional 3/4 turn out on the Knurl Adjuster ... the Clutch is adjusted to:

Zero Lash + 3/4 Turns OUT. The cable is especially tight. The clutches have but 14,000 Original on them. The riding I do, in town, is slow and there's plenty of stops. Gituar string tight will let me throw the clutch right-out ... and do multiple downshifts very smoothly, find Neutral with ease and "Select" first gear without resistance ... and move back to Neutral without a fight.

 

ok good, that's what I was adjusting. *phew*

Just to check... in order to adjust the tension to make it tighter, I loosened up the knurl (bigger disc shaped thing with a notch in it) and then turned the knurl adjuster (hollow screw-threaded thing) a few times to extend it out a bit more from the clutch lever... then tightened the knurl back in place to secure the mechanism at it's new length.

That's what I was sposed to try, yes? It didn't seem to have any effect on the ka-chunk/lurch effect of shifting into 1st, but I wanna make sure I was doing what you were suggesting.

 

The Business End.
Lower Mount and Adjustments.

Note crushed Nylon washer added to Clutch Cable's Threaded End Adjustment.

The washers will hold the threaded rod from slipping around as you tighten and adjust.

Note markings on Clutch Case Cover where the ROD emerges from. That line on the Case ... and that dimple on the Throw-out ARM should be alighned when you have dialed-in ZERO Lash.

You can see from the position of the dimple -- a bit left of Center -- I'm deliberately running with my Clutch Cable > TIGHT. You will never hear anyone ask me:

What you do-in runnin with a loose-ass clutch for, fool?

 

Let's also attack the problem under the notion that your Clutch Cable has "Stretched".

If the Lever's floppy; there's way too much Slack. You should just try "Re-set." Do the whole 9-Yards. It might take a half hour or so.

Set-up the Perch end.
Undo the whole bottom end.

Set-up the bottom end from scratch. Take it all apart. Rotate the ROD Clockwise until it touches. Wrap the end of a shoe lace around the top of the rod four or five times (CW). Pull it tight and the rod will rotate around and hold. Tape the shoe lace to the case and that will hold that rod against the stop.
Line-up the dimple on the Throw-out Lever with the line on the Case.
This will position the Lever at Factory.
(If the Clutches are worn you might not be able to get a true line-up on the two indicators. If so, error on the side of tightness by placing the dimple to the RIGHT of the line on the case.

Then you mount the lower end of the cable and work-out the slack.
If you need the Throw-out Lever moved further away from the cable end ... you have a good visual reference at the Factory lines to begin from.

 

Hey Rick. Thanks for all the advice. I appreciate it. (I hope I'm not getting annoying asking all this stuff.)

It's been a while, I haven't had a chance to go mess with the bike in a while, but I went n' looked at it the other day to try what you suggested. I have no idea what the ROD is, I think I know what the throw-out lever is, but there's no marking on it to line up with the marking on the case. I think I know what the case is. Since I'm not terribly certain what the rod is, I have no idea what the stop is. More to the point, the clutch lever doesn't seem loose at all, so I don't know that the issue requires an overhaul of the clutch cable.

That being said, I've decided to upload a couple pictures of my bike, complete with letters labeling all the parts I think might be relevant, so next time you tell me a part by name, I'll know what you're talking about.





So, here are my guesses as to what parts are what, feel free to correct me.

A) clutch cable
B) clutch cable end bit (bullet lookin' thingie)
C) throw out lever ?
D) in the top picture it looks like there is a marking on the throw out lever. That's actually just a trick of the lighting. notice in the 2nd image there is no line on D to line up with E.
E) The marking on the case for factory default setting ?
F) the ROD ?
G) cable adjustment nut
H) other cable adjustment nut
J) another cable adjustment nut
K) the ROD ?

So, assuming I'm trying to tighten up the cable, and assuming that G and H are what I should be adjusting... do I want G & H closer together? or further apart? or am I just utterly lost and looking at the wrong thing?

 

There is a mark on your throw out lever. You can see it in your last picture just above arrowhead D on the rim of the lever. It's the punchmark up on the top edge of the lever.

Like mine, you already have your clutch tightned beyond the alignment marks. (rickomatic's picture looks the same way).

I'm having a similar issue with mine. I decided that the PO had bent the clutch lever and it was bottoming against the grip too soon. I reshaped the lever out a bit and got better results. Looking through partsnmore I realized that the OEM clutch lever had a dog leg that would allow a bit more travel. I've got an OEM style lever but haven't put it on yet.

Also, as I write this I wonder if the oversize foam grips on my bike are also limiting the clutch lever travel.......

 

Aha! okay. Didn't know what to make of that little notch bit there. Thanks for clarifying that.

Also, good thinkin' with the clutch lever shape... I'll hafta check that... maybe bend it a bit? (not sure I have the tools for that on hand...)

 

If you put more curve in the 1st type of lever it will begin to hit the switch box on the left side.

I put the new lever on today and it clears the switchbox nicely. Carbs are off though, so won't know for sure until spring.

 

I just went n' checked... my lever is hitting the switch box before it's hitting the handlebar... not by much, maybe 1/8" or so, but still, that may make a difference...

 

The indicator on "D" is not a "LINE" ... but, is a "Detent marking" ... clearly visible in both photographs.

 

yep. MiCarl cleared that up for me. Thanks.

So, regarding tightening the cable... do G and H factor in to it?

 

Loosen - J Tighten - H Hold - G

Very awkward to do ... that is why I stack the Nylon washers inside flat washers inside - J - and - H -

Nylon's close to the bracket. Flats applying pressure on the Nylon's to keep things from squirreling around.

 

I really appreaciate learning from this post. The one item I am not seeing is the name for the spring at the bottom of the clutch cable assembly. It is the clip that is creating tension for the throw out lever. Two days ago I removed what was left of mine, it was very old, rusty, and missing the top half, and I want to order another. Without knowing the part name, I am afraid of what my shop might get me if I ask for the tension spring or something like that. Can someone help me learn what to ask for?

Thanks

 

This thread should be used for the XJ FAQ section. It clearly illustrates the instructions Rick has shared with us in the past for correct clutch adjustment.