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Stripped master cylinder cap screw

Discussion in 'XJ Technical Chat' started by digitaldrifter, Jul 21, 2016.

  1. digitaldrifter

    digitaldrifter New Member

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    Yesterday I got everything legal with the BMV, so today I took my *ahem* new Maxim for a ride around town for a bit. The front brakes do feel pretty squishy still, so when I got home I decided to take the master cylinder cap off to inspect things. The first screw seemed to make a *pop* as it loosened; I don't know how long it's been since that thing has been opened up. Unfortunately, the second screw seemed super soft, and stripped out very easily. Any ideas on how to get the sucker out of there? I might try to find a small file and file down one of the centerlines to try to use a big flathead, but I don't know if there's an easier way. Any suggestions?
     
  2. tabaka45

    tabaka45 Well-Known Member

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    I've heard that if the casing is aluminum, then you can take everything out that isn't aluminum and then soak the entire thing in an alum solution and it will disolve any non-aluminum metal. Now, I am assuming the m/c is aluminum. If this is an alternative then I'm sure someone on here will chime in with the proper procedure.
     
  3. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    That ^ will work, but shouldn't be needed.

    OP, you used a phillips screwdriver didn't you.
    Not phillips screws.

    Do you have an impact driver?
    One of the bits in most sets is a very close match to a #2 JIS bit. Give that a try along with a few firm taps from a hammer.

    If that fails then drill the head off. The stub of the screw will remain and you can use penetrating oil, some heat, and vice-grips to remove it.
     
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  4. mrdawson

    mrdawson Active Member

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    drill/ez-out as last resort
     
  5. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    There's not enough meat in the screw to use an extractor.
     
  6. mrdawson

    mrdawson Active Member

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    suppose thats true yea
     
  7. rocs82650

    rocs82650 Well-Known Member

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    Or gently flat file the end of a old phillips to make it fit more like a jis.If this doesn't work...
    Gary H.
     
  8. Nuch

    Nuch Well-Known Member

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    I learned this the hard way. Made matters worse to say the least. I have a "home remedy" in place right now to keep my cap on while the rebuild of my new (used) MC happens.
    Guilty as charged! But at least now thanks to Len, I have a proud set of JIS drivers perched proudly on the wall above the workbench.
     
  9. Yardawg

    Yardawg Active Member

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    I replaced my MC screws with Allen head screws. Eventually I will replace all the screws on my bike with Allen head screws
     
  10. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    Allen head screws have their disadvantages too. I've changed a few out, but not all of them will be swapped.
    Don't forget to add the correct keys to your on-bike toolkit.
     
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  11. Yardawg

    Yardawg Active Member

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    Yes I do agree with you on that. I do carry a complete set of metric Allen wrenches. Thankfully I haven't needed them on the road YET!
     
  12. digitaldrifter

    digitaldrifter New Member

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    k-moe, at first I was going to reply with something like, "Duh, of course it's a phillips head, it has a cross. What kind of dumbass do you take me for?" Then I googled JIS. The grasshopper has much to learn...

    I stripped the hell out of it, don't think I can get it out even with a JIS bit. I'm going to try to drill a line across one line and see if I can use a flathead to get it out. If not, I'll have to do it the hard way. Hopefully I didn't junk the MC doing what I did.
     
  13. digitaldrifter

    digitaldrifter New Member

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    Well, let's just say that my attempt at removing a single solitary screw resulted in a fuster cluck. Here is my masterpiece. Glad I checked the MC, because it looked like crap in there. There was a bunch of crystallized brake fluid on top of the cap gasket and the fluid looks really dark. Do you think it'll come off with some pliers? It's not really sticking that far out. Thanks for the help so far guys.
     

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  14. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    That's plenty enough of a stub to work with. Since you have to rebuild it, go ahead and strip the master cylinder down and soak the main casting in a 50/50 mix of acetone and ATF. That will clean the gooey brake fluid out and soak into the screw threads to loosen the corrosion. Give it overnight to work, then clamp a set of vice grips (pliers won't do the job) on the stub and see if she'll move. If not then clean the schmoo off and warm the casting up (torch, heat gun) then try again. It may take several days, but the screw should come out by the time your rebuild kit arrives. If not then find a welder with a TIG and have him weld a nut to the stub.

    Please note that soaking the master cylinder may soften or even strip the paint (I have not had that happen, but it is possible) so if you don't want to repaint then just put a few drops on the screw every few hours.
     
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  15. Stumplifter

    Stumplifter Well-Known Member

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    That is awesome! Well maybe not, BUT, now you really learned something didn't cha?

    We've all done similar things.
     
  16. digitaldrifter

    digitaldrifter New Member

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    I got the screw out! I bought some WD-40 brand penetrant, gave it a shot and let it sit overnight. I hit it with the vice grips and it came right out. Only turned it about a half a turn and it was loose enough to come out with my fingers. Now I just have to figure out how to take apart the master cylinder. Still need to finish draining the brakes, but I already got the brake switch wires and the fluid level wires disconnected from that rats nest behind the headlight.
     
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  17. DatelessPiano

    DatelessPiano Member

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    I had the same thing happen to my xj550 seca. I used a "Speed Out" kit. Your supposed to use one side of the bit to drill a little bit out the screw head, then flip it over to the other side of the bit to remove the screw. It worked like a charm, I didn't even have to use the second side of the bit, just the one side did all the work. I don't think they cost much, maybe $10+/-
     

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  18. rocs82650

    rocs82650 Well-Known Member

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    Easy peasy. You'll need a cheap set of ring pliers to remove the c-clip under the dust seal that hold the piston in place.

    Gary H.
     
  19. DatelessPiano

    DatelessPiano Member

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    Honestly, I would just buy a new master cylinder. They're around $25 new on ebay and a rebuild kit is around $15. I bought the rebuild kit but it turns out I don't have the right type of cir-clip pliers and a decent pair cost about as much as a new master cylinder. In hindsight I would've just bought a new master cylinder and actually saved myself time and money. I'm not saying you'll have the same problems that I do but it's certainly something to think about.
     
  20. rocs82650

    rocs82650 Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. I'd hang on to the oe mc if he goes that route.

    Gary H.
     
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  21. DatelessPiano

    DatelessPiano Member

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    Agreed. I went with the rebuild kit to keep the bike original, but it all depends on whether that matters to u or not. Either way I'd hang on to the oem one like rocs said.
     
  22. k-moe

    k-moe Pie, Bacon, Bourbon. Moderator Premium Member

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    A $25 master cylinder will give you $25 worth of use and safety (more than a few people have reported failures). Rebuild the original.
     
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  23. rocs82650

    rocs82650 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. That's why I said...
    When I replaced my stock bars with euro bars I bought a flat oe mc off e-bay with a stuck piston for $25. Drilled and tapped it with a 6mm bolt, soaked it in brake fluid and it twisted right out. 0000 steel wool and a wooden dowel cleaned the bore nicely.

    Gary H.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2016
  24. DatelessPiano

    DatelessPiano Member

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    I imagine that's probably the case with a lot of cheap replacement parts, more often than not u get what u pay for... I have no way of vouching for any replacement master cylinders out there but I imagine there's a few that aren't so bad. I can't say which ones may be the good ones tho. But that's why u have this lovely forum ;)
     
  25. Stumplifter

    Stumplifter Well-Known Member

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    Digital drifter, congrats on your personal victory!
    Here are instructions for rebuilding a Master Cylinder, I don't know what happened to the pictures . . . .
    It is highly recommended by those who truly know that you get you rebuild parts from XJ4Ever. Len is a very rare gem - he knows what customer service is and he serves it up fresh and hot!
     
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  26. rocs82650

    rocs82650 Well-Known Member

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    WE have this forum. You're a member too; same as the rest.

    Gary H.
     
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  27. digitaldrifter

    digitaldrifter New Member

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    Yeah, I saw all of those master cylinders on eBay, and I don't trust them either. I'd also like to keep the fluid level sensor. I just ordered the full gamut from xj4ever; MC rebuild kit, stainless lines, caliper seals. I also have new raised white letter tires coming my way, along with new rear shoes. I'm about $300 in (not including the extra tools I've had to buy), but since the engine is running great, I'm sure once I get the brakes sorted and new rubber on there, she'll be almost as good as new.
     
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